[GuiltyRocker]

You want to see what the DAVE and M Scaler can do? Play this song at high volume. Crank it up!

 

[chelseafc]

Has anyone done a shootout between HMS/DAVE combo and MSB Premier?
With new DAVE and scaler expected to be in the similar price range or even more, I figured it is worth exploring as an future upgrade path from DAVE.

 

[ecwl]

Has anyone done a shootout between HMS/DAVE combo and MSB Premier?
With new DAVE and scaler expected to be in the similar price range or even more, I figured it is worth exploring as a future upgrade path from DAVE.

I think they sound very very different. In general, I’m not an R2R DAC fan. That’s why I prefer HMS+Dave. I have a friend who swears by MSB and he loves the MSB Premier. Definitely not my cup of tea. I don’t want his MSB to touch my system and he doesn’t want my Chord to touch his systems. But we are still friends. Haha.

 

[chelseafc]

I think they sound very very different. In general, I’m not an R2R DAC fan. That’s why I prefer HMS+Dave. I have a friend who swears by MSB and he loves the MSB Premier. Definitely not my cup of tea. I don’t want his MSB to touch my system and he doesn’t want my Chord to touch his systems. But we are still friends. Haha.

I was getting a bit tired from a standalone DAVE, with its super pronounced transients and a blah imaging.
But after adding the HMS, good cables, OPTO-DX and batteries all around, I cannot think of a anything that could sound better to my ears.
Different? Sure. But as you pointed out, different sounds appeal to different people.
I just wish Chord would sound great out of the box, like MSB and others claim to do.

 

[ZappaMan]

I was getting a bit tired from a standalone DAVE, with its super pronounced transients and a blah imaging.
But after adding the HMS, good cables, OPTO-DX and batteries all around, I cannot think of a anything that could sound better to my ears.
Different? Sure. But as you pointed out, different sounds appeal to different people.
I just wish Chord would sound great out of the box, like MSB and others claim to do.

Is your Dave on batteries too?

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I think they sound very very different. In general, I’m not an R2R DAC fan. That’s why I prefer HMS+Dave. I have a friend who swears by MSB and he loves the MSB Premier. Definitely not my cup of tea. I don’t want his MSB to touch my system and he doesn’t want my Chord to touch his systems. But we are still friends. Haha.

I have listened to all of the current MSB DACs and they are not for me, they just don't move me at all, I am totally ok with some liking them, not for me.

 

[chelseafc]

Is your Dave on batteries too?

No, I have 3 batteries - for HMS, OPTO-TX and OPTO-RX.
I found that sharing the PS between the HMS and OPTO-TX degrades the sound.
Also, one of the many lessons I learned is that contrary to common belief, optical isolation by itself is not a get-out-of-jail card.
The noise (PS or RF induced) have a way or modulating optical signal (which gets demodulated on the RX end) which is enough to disturb DAVE.
I discovered this by switching the HMS power from the stock PS to batteries on the “dirty” end of the optical link and the difference was obvious.
Also, physically moving HMS from DAVE by 10ft made a big difference In my setup.

 

[chelseafc]

No, I have 3 batteries - for HMS, OPTO-TX and OPTO-RX.
I found that sharing the PS between the HMS and OPTO-TX degrades the sound.
Also, one of the many lessons I learned is that contrary to common belief, optical isolation by itself is not a get-out-of-jail card.
The noise (PS or RF induced) have a way or modulating optical signal (which gets demodulated on the RX end) which is enough to disturb DAVE.
I discovered this by switching the HMS power from the stock PS to batteries on the “dirty” end of the optical link and the difference was obvious.
Also, physically moving HMS from DAVE by 10ft made a big difference In my setup.

Before someone points out to a potential noise leak from HMS through the mains, I also switched back and forth between unregulated and regulated outputs on the Bixpower battery for HMS and the results were similar (unregulated sounded better).

 

[ZappaMan]

Best folk song ever, Johnny jump up, by Christy Moore on an album called Magic Nights.

I was once sitting at a wake and a young man sung this song word for word, left quite the impression.

 

[Reactcore]

Before someone points out to a potential noise leak from HMS through the mains, I also switched back and forth between unregulated and regulated outputs on the Bixpower battery for HMS and the results were similar (unregulated sounded better).

The only one i know that can answer this and experiment is @stemiki as he powers his Dave out of a unregulated DC battery. If he uses tosink in and headphones his Dave can 'float' with 100% isolation.

Im also shure Dave can pick up RF from the mains.. even without earth connection.
I hear it easily if i place any (specially switchmode) PSU on the same mains outlet point as my Dave. Also together on the output of a mains conditioner.

I found this a time ago when i took my original HMS PSU brick's mains plug and put it on a different mains socket of my house which is wired to another switchboard group. Then again improvement when i did the same with my music server' PSU.

So the noise coming from my HMS PSU had less low impedance short line to my Dave PSU input.

What i heard was again less sharp treble and thus warmer sound with easier to follow and understand singer lyrics. The (bad) fatigue was gone after my optic link which improved things alot, but it was not the last word.

 

[Meridian7]

Did anyone test a 12V DC to 110V 60Hz / 220V 50Hz 'pure sine' inverter to feed gear from a 12V batt this way?
Those inverters are dirt cheap actually at lower watts say 500W.

How 'pure' would be 'pure' with those things? Anyone had it on a scope or THD'ed them? They're so cheap it's tempting to just check out on.
Then again hanging expensive rig on a cheap thing wonders me if there is a risk for failure of the inverter and damaging the hifi.

It's actually half of 'reconditioning' if we already start from DC.
11 Kilo's for a 100Ah LiFePO4 and 250 - 300 euro.

Are there very good inverters out there perhaps to anyone's knowledge? DIY? Why haven't I see anything like that in Hifi before? Prolly it's a stupid idea
Maybe some schematics exist for sufficiently quality 'pure sine' generators if the chicheap ain't good enough.

 

[Reactcore]

Did anyone test a 12V DC to 110V 60Hz / 220V 50Hz 'pure sine' inverter to feed gear from a 12V batt this way?

I have one of those and could try it.

They indeed isolates from noise from the mains but in return generate quite 'loud' high frequency noise of their own by using switching activity internally to create AC and up-transform from low voltage DC.

Its better not to have switching activity at all. eg. By using an unregulated battery.

I still have a design of a non switching 5v/ +/-15v battery which i havent build yet.
I can then remove Daves PSU (and possible noise from that too) totally.

I already prepared my Dave with a 4-pin Lemo connector chassis for that reason which is now being used with my external PSU.

Its just because it already sounds so darn good with my external original unearthed PSU with cap mod in Dave and optic linked Mscaler.. i didnt have the urge to make one..

 

[Meridian7]

I would sure like to see that design if possible and open source?
I understand your 'being satisfied' for sure.

If those pure-sines are indeed switched devises, they disturb the sine and not sooo pure after all.
Analog created sines like in old days perhaps?

 

[chelseafc]

Did anyone test a 12V DC to 110V 60Hz / 220V 50Hz 'pure sine' inverter to feed gear from a 12V batt this way?
Those inverters are dirt cheap actually at lower watts say 500W.



How 'pure' would be 'pure' with those things? Anyone had it on a scope or THD'ed them? They're so cheap it's tempting to just check out on.
Then again hanging expensive rig on a cheap thing wonders me if there is a risk for failure of the inverter and damaging the hifi.

It's actually half of 'reconditioning' if we already start from DC.
11 Kilo's for a 100Ah LiFePO4 and 250 - 300 euro.

Are there very good inverters out there perhaps to anyone's knowledge? DIY? Why haven't I see anything like that in Hifi before? Prolly it's a stupid idea
Maybe some schematics exist for sufficiently quality 'pure sine' generators if the chicheap ain't good enough.

I did and it sounds like garbage.

 

[SteveHulk]

Did anyone test a 12V DC to 110V 60Hz / 220V 50Hz 'pure sine' inverter to feed gear from a 12V batt this way?
Those inverters are dirt cheap actually at lower watts say 500W.



How 'pure' would be 'pure' with those things? Anyone had it on a scope or THD'ed them? They're so cheap it's tempting to just check out on.
Then again hanging expensive rig on a cheap thing wonders me if there is a risk for failure of the inverter and damaging the hifi.

It's actually half of 'reconditioning' if we already start from DC.
11 Kilo's for a 100Ah LiFePO4 and 250 - 300 euro.

Are there very good inverters out there perhaps to anyone's knowledge? DIY? Why haven't I see anything like that in Hifi before? Prolly it's a stupid idea
Maybe some schematics exist for sufficiently quality 'pure sine' generators if the chicheap ain't good enough.

I use exactly this setup and it works very well.

One advantage is that Dave and mscaler can be on separate batteries and so, with an optic link only between them, be completely isolated from each other.

Another is that the system is no longer vulnerable to the vagaries of the mains in terms of random rf noise, waveform voltage, and quality variations dependent on the network load.

This requires the battery chargers to be entirely disconnected while listening, easily achieved with simple in-line connectors between the batteries and the chargers. The Victron chargers I use have this feature. I use Meanwell inverters and TNPower LiFePO4 golf cart batteries. One tip I'd mention: use inverters with plenty of power headroom and so if any fans are too noisy, you can safely remove them.

A further advantage is that, if like me you build your own gear, you are released from the obligation (that exists on commercial products) to make your gear resilient to such mains variations as those mentioned above as well as regional variations.

The inverters provide a strictly controlled environment to which it is far easier to build.

As you say, the solution is cheap so if it doesn't work for you then no harm done.