CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[nkj1]

Excellent choice

Thanks- Likewise!

 

[nkj1]

Can you elaborate on why you chose the DAVE over the Mola Mola Tambaqui? I hear the Tambaqui is overly smooth and doesn't have that attack the DAVE has, is this the case?

I felt the Dave was more articulate without being harsh. The addition of the Farad Power supplies added to a greater sense of depth and space in recordings that I enjoy.
Mola Mola is excellent- however, when you put it all together and look at the price of the Dave previously enjoyed- Dave makes more sense for me.

 

[Reactcore]

Theres a update in my optic scaler thread posted here
This makes modifying Dave alot easier.

 

[cotic54]

When running either of the 3Chord DACs with an m-scaler through a pre-amp (tube or ss) are they much closer together sound-wise or is it the case that the DAVE or TT2 get most of their benefit going direct to power amps? I have a M/Quetest at the moment going into an ARC Ref 3. Has anyone tested them side by side running through a pre and what were your impressions?

 

[Reactcore]

When running either of the 3Chord DACs with an m-scaler through a pre-amp (tube or ss) are they much closer together sound-wise or is it the case that the DAVE or TT2 get most of their benefit going direct to power amps? I have a M/Quetest at the moment going into an ARC Ref 3. Has anyone tested them side by side running through a pre and what were your impressions?

They get closer in having the 1st WTA stage the same which is done by the mscaler.

Imo transient recontruction should be more comparable but they keep differ in depth production due to small signal accuracy and the amp/line section quality.

 

[Triode User]

When running either of the 3Chord DACs with an m-scaler through a pre-amp (tube or ss) are they much closer together sound-wise or is it the case that the DAVE or TT2 get most of their benefit going direct to power amps? I have a M/Quetest at the moment going into an ARC Ref 3. Has anyone tested them side by side running through a pre and what were your impressions?

For years I had various Chord DACs (Hugo1, HugoTT, TT2 and Dave, some with MScaler)) going through various preamps both ss and tubes. My experience was that the DACs mostly preserve their differences even when going though the preamp. I used to like the color of preamps but now I prefer taking them direct to active speakers or power amps.

 

[sm60]

When running either of the 3Chord DACs with an m-scaler through a pre-amp (tube or ss) are they much closer together sound-wise or is it the case that the DAVE or TT2 get most of their benefit going direct to power amps? I have a M/Quetest at the moment going into an ARC Ref 3. Has anyone tested them side by side running through a pre and what were your impressions?

I have the same ARC Ref 3 preamp. In my (30+ years) experience, no DAC at whatever price point you care to explore can project a soundstage like a top of the line balanced tube preamp can. I tried comparing my Blu2/Dave direct into a variety of power amplifiers vs. going into the Ref 3. There’s just no comparison. The direct input to my ears sounds squashed in terms of dynamics, and is inferior in just about every aspect.

It’s worth asking why. It would seem logical that direct DAC input to a power amplifier should be more “accurate” and “transparent”. I have tried this experiment with numerous DACs over the years. 20 odd years ago, I owned the dCS stack of Verdi SACD transport, Purcell upsampler and Elgar Plus DAC. Fantastic combo. I thought at the time I could get rid of my ARC Ref 1 tube preamp. Each time I went direct, the sound just collapsed. The dynamics were gone. It sounded a bit emasculated, to put it bluntly.

Unfortunately it’s the usual no free lunch theorem that kicks in. You’d have to lower the DAC volume down to -40 dB or less depending on amplifier power and speaker sensitivity. This implies the DAC is throwing a lot of bits away. Now DAC manufacturers always like to claim their DACs maintain full resolution as the volume is lowered, which is nice marketing, but not borne out by measurements. Most DACs have far higher distortion levels as the volume is reduced (it’s an intrinsic tradeoff of the PCM standard — every bit reduced drops S/N by 6 dB roughly).

Some DACs do volume control via a high quality analog board (e.g., the Lampizator Horizon and the various Mark Levinson DACs and CD players). But then you’re putting the preamp quality in a DAC with that of a top flight tube or solid state preamp. In my experience, stand-alone preamps usually win that competition just as separate power amplification is always better than integrated amplification or a receiver.

Yes, it’s more expensive to use a separate preamplifier and the good ones like ARC are expensive. But they hold their value over time unlike DAC. ARC preamps remain highly prized on the used market and usually fetch premium prices. And if you’re like me who runs multiple sources, you can’t do without a preamp anyway.

If you want the ultimate in convenience, get a Devialet Phantom Gold all in one speaker. Streamer, DAC, 5000 watt power amplifier and loudspeaker all packed into one small eggshell enclosure. Can go 110 dB loud from 15 Hz to over 20 kHz. Amazing technology. Looks futuristic and cool. You can stream high res to it from your phone. Plug in a power cable and you’re done. No fuss no muss. I have a pair of these in my house. But for the ultimate in sound quality it doesn’t compare to separates. No free lunch, I’m afraid.

 

[musicinmymind]

I have the same ARC Ref 3 preamp. In my (30+ years) experience, no DAC at whatever price point you care to explore can project a soundstage like a top of the line balanced tube preamp can. I tried comparing my Blu2/Dave direct into a variety of power amplifiers vs. going into the Ref 3. There’s just no comparison. The direct input to my ears sounds squashed in terms of dynamics, and is inferior in just about every aspect.

It’s worth asking why. It would seem logical that direct DAC input to a power amplifier should be more “accurate” and “transparent”. I have tried this experiment with numerous DACs over the years. 20 odd years ago, I owned the dCS stack of Verdi SACD transport, Purcell upsampler and Elgar Plus DAC. Fantastic combo. I thought at the time I could get rid of my ARC Ref 1 tube preamp. Each time I went direct, the sound just collapsed. The dynamics were gone. It sounded a bit emasculated, to put it bluntly.

Unfortunately it’s the usual no free lunch theorem that kicks in. You’d have to lower the DAC volume down to -40 dB or less depending on amplifier power and speaker sensitivity. This implies the DAC is throwing a lot of bits away. Now DAC manufacturers always like to claim their DACs maintain full resolution as the volume is lowered, which is nice marketing, but not borne out by measurements. Most DACs have far higher distortion levels as the volume is reduced (it’s an intrinsic tradeoff of the PCM standard — every bit reduced drops S/N by 6 dB roughly).

Some DACs do volume control via a high quality analog board (e.g., the Lampizator Horizon and the various Mark Levinson DACs and CD players). But then you’re putting the preamp quality in a DAC with that of a top flight tube or solid state preamp. In my experience, stand-alone preamps usually win that competition just as separate power amplification is always better than integrated amplification or a receiver.

Yes, it’s more expensive to use a separate preamplifier and the good ones like ARC are expensive. But they hold their value over time unlike DAC. ARC preamps remain highly prized on the used market and usually fetch premium prices. And if you’re like me who runs multiple sources, you can’t do without a preamp anyway.

If you want the ultimate in convenience, get a Devialet Phantom Gold all in one speaker. Streamer, DAC, 5000 watt power amplifier and loudspeaker all packed into one small eggshell enclosure. Can go 110 dB loud from 15 Hz to over 20 kHz. Amazing technology. Looks futuristic and cool. You can stream high res to it from your phone. Plug in a power cable and you’re done. No fuss no muss. I have a pair of these in my house. But for the ultimate in sound quality it doesn’t compare to separates. No free lunch, I’m afraid.

Devialet Expert all in one box is also good option, just add speakers and set. I have old model 120, still use them with harbeth speakers and susvara

 

[Progisus]

I have the same ARC Ref 3 preamp. In my (30+ years) experience, no DAC at whatever price point you care to explore can project a soundstage like a top of the line balanced tube preamp can. I tried comparing my Blu2/Dave direct into a variety of power amplifiers vs. going into the Ref 3. There’s just no comparison. The direct input to my ears sounds squashed in terms of dynamics, and is inferior in just about every aspect.

It’s worth asking why. It would seem logical that direct DAC input to a power amplifier should be more “accurate” and “transparent”. I have tried this experiment with numerous DACs over the years. 20 odd years ago, I owned the dCS stack of Verdi SACD transport, Purcell upsampler and Elgar Plus DAC. Fantastic combo. I thought at the time I could get rid of my ARC Ref 1 tube preamp. Each time I went direct, the sound just collapsed. The dynamics were gone. It sounded a bit emasculated, to put it bluntly.

Unfortunately it’s the usual no free lunch theorem that kicks in. You’d have to lower the DAC volume down to -40 dB or less depending on amplifier power and speaker sensitivity. This implies the DAC is throwing a lot of bits away. Now DAC manufacturers always like to claim their DACs maintain full resolution as the volume is lowered, which is nice marketing, but not borne out by measurements. Most DACs have far higher distortion levels as the volume is reduced (it’s an intrinsic tradeoff of the PCM standard — every bit reduced drops S/N by 6 dB roughly).

Some DACs do volume control via a high quality analog board (e.g., the Lampizator Horizon and the various Mark Levinson DACs and CD players). But then you’re putting the preamp quality in a DAC with that of a top flight tube or solid state preamp. In my experience, stand-alone preamps usually win that competition just as separate power amplification is always better than integrated amplification or a receiver.

Yes, it’s more expensive to use a separate preamplifier and the good ones like ARC are expensive. But they hold their value over time unlike DAC. ARC preamps remain highly prized on the used market and usually fetch premium prices. And if you’re like me who runs multiple sources, you can’t do without a preamp anyway.

If you want the ultimate in convenience, get a Devialet Phantom Gold all in one speaker. Streamer, DAC, 5000 watt power amplifier and loudspeaker all packed into one small eggshell enclosure. Can go 110 dB loud from 15 Hz to over 20 kHz. Amazing technology. Looks futuristic and cool. You can stream high res to it from your phone. Plug in a power cable and you’re done. No fuss no muss. I have a pair of these in my house. But for the ultimate in sound quality it doesn’t compare to separates. No free lunch, I’m afraid.

New acquisition. Antipodes K30 with Roon to the Phantoms. Love them.

 

[cotic54]

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

​

@sm60 I do miss my Ref 3 when it's not in the system, it had to be repaired a few years back and sadly is currently on the Techs bench being resuscitated.
I using my substitute DIY DCG3 dual mono SS pre whilst the Ref 3 is in critical care and it does a good job and I have to say is a touch clearer, but the Ref 3 has the sort of sound character that makes listening addictive and as you say the way the sound projects into the room is quite different from other pieces of equipment, I suspect the Ref 3 with the holographic sound of the DAVE must be quite something.

Interesting comments about the Devialet, I was aware of them when they first came out but concluded that a large part of the enjoyment of this hobby is easily being able to change things around with separates, I very much enjoy building stuff (almost finished my 4th set of speakers) which doesn't sit well with buying one thing and you're done.
I do enjoy different types of sound and am not hung up on chasing some utopian perfect sound...... it's enjoying the journey that matters to me.

BTW, I apologize if this has already been brought to your attention, a thread on SBAF is revisiting the DAVE and it seems a change of heart has taken place.
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...visited-in-2022-vs-wavedream-signature.12197/
I like SBAF and find a lot of useful info over there, unlike the pitchfork-wielding villagers on ASR.

​

 

[skootb]

my favorite amp I ever had was the pass labs xa60.8. I sold them to downsize for kid reasons and got a Devialet 200. I was surprised at how well the Devialet performed.

 

[adrianm]

In my experience, stand-alone preamps usually win that competition just as separate power amplification is always better than integrated amplification or a receiver.

Don't put much stock into Whathifi, but they do mention this in their review.https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/dcs-rossini-apex-dac
https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/dcs-rossini-apex-dac

Also taking into account your impressions above, and what I'm hearing now (Non-Apex version)...I tend to believe them.

Ps. Looks like Dave's still the one going

 

[Reactcore]

4 buffercaps are installed in my Dave on the amp section yesterday..

Ohmy Dave's got muscles now..
I hear authority and gripp on my HP's drivers. Even with higher volume levels it keeps control
The low end i can feel it rumble..

I will post a section of how i did in my mscaler thread soon.. but i cant get my phones off my head lol

 

[musicinmymind]

my favorite amp I ever had was the pass labs xa60.8. I sold them to downsize for kid reasons and got a Devialet 200. I was surprised at how well the Devialet performed.

so which one you liked more pass labs or davialet?

I love Davialet for it's all in one pizza box, decent dac but awesome amp.

 

[nkj1]

Its fascinating how we can still find ways to improve the DAVE after all this time.

I concur that the Farad supply mod adds to the heft and presence of the DAVE in a very natural way