Mar 22, 2022 at 12:13 AM Post #19,531 of 27,021
Yes, the sound floats outside the left and right drivers with distinct space and soundstage but just a bit annoying. Thanks for the additional recommendation.
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 12:41 AM Post #19,532 of 27,021
Having heard a few different servers, I can attest that they do in fact influence sound. Which one we choose will be based on budget, system synergy, etc. But I feel compelled to poke one of the most distasteful aspects of the audio community online, at least for me, which is the criticism of a product that one has zero experience with. I get the fact that some products are not for me. I also view some products as bogus and want nothing to do with them, but I also feel no desire to comment on them either. Without any experience, what could I possibly contribute to the conversation? Taiko has a loyal following, because they offer incredible customer service and the company itself is run by true audiophiles that are striving to improve SQ. I havent home auditioned, so I cannot testify to its SQ, but have heard Taiko servers in systems and those systems sounded incredible. What i can attest to is that servers do change sound. I know that much for sure, having passed through a few. I currently own a Statement. Just my two cents in the spirit of conversation.
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 12:45 AM Post #19,533 of 27,021
I’m running the LS50s full range right now, with the RELs supporting the bass under 80 Hz. That’s the official REL recommendation. I don’t drive my loudspeakers very hard, so the KEFs are probably not working too hard. Their spec says they can go up to 105dB, but I don’t ever recommend listening at that SPL if you want to preserve your hearing. Anyway I imagine the bass distortion would be severe at that volume.

Yes, unfortunately too many jazz recordings have an artificial separation into hard left and right sound. You get used to it after a while. But with a great DAC, the sound should float over the left and right channels and create a compelling soundstage.

Another of my go to jazz albums, which again has that left right extreme separation is the immortal Bags Meets Trane pairing of jazz legends John Coltrane with Milt Jackson. Don’t listen to the shorter 192 kHz 24 bit version on Qobuz, which omits many of the great tracks. I have a remastered CD version that runs a full 70 minutes and blows away the high Rez Qobuz version. On Stairway to Heaven, when Coltrane’s saxophone enters on the left channel, on a great DAC, it should sound warm and full bodied, floating high above the left loudspeaker and echo all across your listening room. Gives me goose bumps each time I listen to that track. Miles Davis used to complain that Coltrane, once he got going, wouldn’t stop! He loved those long lingering notes, drawing out so much emotion from his saxophone. This recording shows him at the height of his powers and is a very bluesy album. A desert island disc for sure.

I have this in its original mono version on vinyl, as part of a deluxe Atlantic reissue called Coltrane in Mono. As always, for the jazz greats, as well as The Beatles and Bob Dylan and Ella Fitzgerald and Johnny Cash and Elvis Presley etc., mono is the true way to hear them. That’s the true sound they were aiming for. The stereo versions are always poorer sounding and were largely made to sell the newfangled stereo records, often without the artists permission. I don’t think the Beatles ever cared about their stereo releases, and often didn’t even hear them. They really cared about their mono releases. If you want to hear the true dynamics in the Beatles albums, you have to listen to their mono album releases.
My B system in my office is also Ls50 w/ Kef sub. Sounds great! love these little dudes. They are epic!
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 4:05 AM Post #19,534 of 27,021
Okay, I just saw the OS screen - its Windows....lol this thing is a piece of fool's gold. You can't possibly access bare metal and will be accessing everything through API. Taiko would have been better off just building a gaming PC with outboard and enclosed USB card with linear power supply. At least in that case you can install HQ player and accelerate DSD conversion with CUDA.

@ray-dude the only thing in a windows machine that actually matters (assuming clean machine with sufficient process power and you use processing lasso (you can also do this manually with task manager) and take care of your processing priority of your media player.. etc normal tweaking stuff) is the USB implementation and connector. Motherboard level USB generally sucks and require external USB reclocker.
Agreed on all accounts, that's exactly what I do, except I've been sticking to optical, but I'll have to compare it to coax and usb again, since the new headphones are a lot more resolving.
@Ragnar-BY I have been preaching for a network-based digital audio paradigm since 2010 when I got my Linn DS. That was a game changer for me and I have stayed with AIO Linn network renderer ever since. Lumin, is fine, even though it was a rip off of Linn's Klimax DS with worse power supply.
Any links to these Sermons?
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 5:35 AM Post #19,535 of 27,021
Having heard a few different servers, I can attest that they do in fact influence sound. Which one we choose will be based on budget, system synergy, etc. But I feel compelled to poke one of the most distasteful aspects of the audio community online, at least for me, which is the criticism of a product that one has zero experience with. I get the fact that some products are not for me. I also view some products as bogus and want nothing to do with them, but I also feel no desire to comment on them either. Without any experience, what could I possibly contribute to the conversation? Taiko has a loyal following, because they offer incredible customer service and the company itself is run by true audiophiles that are striving to improve SQ. I havent home auditioned, so I cannot testify to its SQ, but have heard Taiko servers in systems and those systems sounded incredible. What i can attest to is that servers do change sound. I know that much for sure, having passed through a few. I currently own a Statement. Just my two cents in the spirit of conversation.
What is actually distasteful is people constantly feeling the need to try and assert superiority just because they bought 50k worth of snake oil and need to justify it. Some of us have no interest in joining the "emperor's new clothes squad" and want to know what actually matters and WHY.
The criticism was centered at an idea, Taiko (used exclusively as a server, not as an endpoint ) is just the poster boy in this case. I have nothing against status symbols, as long as you can call it what it is.
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 8:38 AM Post #19,536 of 27,021
I’m running the LS50s full range right now, with the RELs supporting the bass under 80 Hz. That’s the official REL recommendation. I don’t drive my loudspeakers very hard, so the KEFs are probably not working too hard. Their spec says they can go up to 105dB, but I don’t ever recommend listening at that SPL if you want to preserve your hearing. Anyway I imagine the bass distortion would be severe at that volume.

Yes, unfortunately too many jazz recordings have an artificial separation into hard left and right sound. You get used to it after a while. But with a great DAC, the sound should float over the left and right channels and create a compelling soundstage.

Another of my go to jazz albums, which again has that left right extreme separation is the immortal Bags Meets Trane pairing of jazz legends John Coltrane with Milt Jackson. Don’t listen to the shorter 192 kHz 24 bit version on Qobuz, which omits many of the great tracks. I have a remastered CD version that runs a full 70 minutes and blows away the high Rez Qobuz version. On Stairway to Heaven, when Coltrane’s saxophone enters on the left channel, on a great DAC, it should sound warm and full bodied, floating high above the left loudspeaker and echo all across your listening room. Gives me goose bumps each time I listen to that track. Miles Davis used to complain that Coltrane, once he got going, wouldn’t stop! He loved those long lingering notes, drawing out so much emotion from his saxophone. This recording shows him at the height of his powers and is a very bluesy album. A desert island disc for sure.

I have this in its original mono version on vinyl, as part of a deluxe Atlantic reissue called Coltrane in Mono. As always, for the jazz greats, as well as The Beatles and Bob Dylan and Ella Fitzgerald and Johnny Cash and Elvis Presley etc., mono is the true way to hear them. That’s the true sound they were aiming for. The stereo versions are always poorer sounding and were largely made to sell the newfangled stereo records, often without the artists permission. I don’t think the Beatles ever cared about their stereo releases, and often didn’t even hear them. They really cared about their mono releases. If you want to hear the true dynamics in the Beatles albums, you have to listen to their mono album releases.
Absolutely nothing personal as far as musical taste is concerned intended, and keep enjoying the music and recordings you like.

But seriously what dynamics are you talking about with Beatles mono recordings , I would guess maximum 20-30dB?
Even a DGG classical music LP from the same period could have a dynamic range of 50 -55 dB.

And much as I still as an aging adult,actually like some, but only some, of the Beatles´ music for strictly musical reasons, most of their recordings are only OK at best, mono or stereo BUT never really good or anything I would ever mention in any real HI FI context.

IMHO mono was good enough for Brahms and others in the late 19th century when the first recordings were made. But to me only of historic interest in an age when we can get both well recorded hi res digital stereo for two speaker listening or even mch for more than two speakers systems.

And since this is HeadFi after all ,for optimally realistic listening via headphones I often listen to actual binaural recordings.
They can capture all dimensions, not only left- right back and front, but even the height dimension.


Of much more interest to me AND on a Chord tech thread was to listen to Rob Watts own test recording snippet of real acoustic instruments in a church acoustic made with a Blumlein figure of 8 mic that unlike mono also captured both width and depth and a believable quite realistic soundstage via my speakers.
And did so with quite realistic instrumental timbre and without tape hiss or the limitations of late 50s mono analogue tape.And Blumlein miking , unlike early stereo spaced omnis sometimes did ,does not suffer from any "hole in the middle", on the contrary it can even sound a bit narrow middle centred.
Johnny Cash or the Beatles in mono are certainly NOT reference points I would ever choose. And while I am the topic of old favourites "warhorses" of many "audiophiles": "Miles Davies Kind of Blue" also sounds more than a bit dated by today´s standards to me. The tape overload on the too close recorded trumpet can be almost painful to hear on a really revealing modern good system imho.
Nice recording by late 50s early stereo standards in most respects but also audibly limited by the technology available.
PS Since getting my Qutest/ Mscaler I almost only listen to LPs for nostalgic or pure musical interpretation reasons.

Cheers CC
 
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Mar 22, 2022 at 4:11 PM Post #19,537 of 27,021
My B system in my office is also Ls50 w/ Kef sub. Sounds great! love these little dudes. They are epic!
Just tried the LS 50 Metas on their own and not using the big REL subs, along with a much smaller 50 watt Quicksilver tube monoblocks. Wow, without the big RELs and a beefy amp driving the Metas, they don’t sound that great. The midrange is still nice, but the dynamics greatly suffers. I also tried an inexpensive Quad Artera 150 watt current dumping amplifier driving the Metas, but with big REL subs handling the bass. That sounded excellent as well.

Ok, lesson learned. You need a beefy (solid state or tube) amplifier to drive the Metas. They are very inefficient. Two, without a good sub, forget it!
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 4:29 PM Post #19,538 of 27,021
Absolutely nothing personal as far as musical taste is concerned intended, and keep enjoying the music and recordings you like.

But seriously what dynamics are you talking about with Beatles mono recordings , I would guess maximum 20-30dB?
Even a DGG classical music LP from the same period could have a dynamic range of 50 -55 dB.

And much as I still as an aging adult,actually like some, but only some, of the Beatles´ music for strictly musical reasons, most of their recordings are only OK at best, mono or stereo BUT never really good or anything I would ever mention in any real HI FI context.

IMHO mono was good enough for Brahms and others in the late 19th century when the first recordings were made. But to me only of historic interest in an age when we can get both well recorded hi res digital stereo for two speaker listening or even mch for more than two speakers systems.

And since this is HeadFi after all ,for optimally realistic listening via headphones I often listen to actual binaural recordings.
They can capture all dimensions, not only left- right back and front, but even the height dimension.


Of much more interest to me AND on a Chord tech thread was to listen to Rob Watts own test recording snippet of real acoustic instruments in a church acoustic made with a Blumlein figure of 8 mic that unlike mono also captured both width and depth and a believable quite realistic soundstage via my speakers.
And did so with quite realistic instrumental timbre and without tape hiss or the limitations of late 50s mono analogue tape.And Blumlein miking , unlike early stereo spaced omnis sometimes did ,does not suffer from any "hole in the middle", on the contrary it can even sound a bit narrow middle centred.
Johnny Cash or the Beatles in mono are certainly NOT reference points I would ever choose. And while I am the topic of old favourites "warhorses" of many "audiophiles": "Miles Davies Kind of Blue" also sounds more than a bit dated by today´s standards to me. The tape overload on the too close recorded trumpet can be almost painful to hear on a really revealing modern good system imho.
Nice recording by late 50s early stereo standards in most respects but also audibly limited by the technology available.
PS Since getting my Qutest/ Mscaler I almost only listen to LPs for nostalgic or pure musical interpretation reasons.

Cheers CC
Hard to explain, but at least on vinyl, on older folk, jazz, pop classic recordings from the 1930s-1970s, nothing beats the sound I get from my 70 year old refurbished Garrard 301 turntable with the majestic Miyajima Infinity Zero cartridge mounted on a 12” SME 312s arm. Frank Sinatra? John Coltrane? Bob Dylan? Ella Fitzgerald? The Beatles? The Beach Boys? Pete Seeger? Big Band Music? Virtually all of great recorded legacy of original American music over a period of 40 years, the golden age of creativity in performance and recorded music sounds way way better in mono on vinyl. I kid you not! Once you’ve heard Frank Sinatra singing Only the Lonely or Lester Morgan’s “The Prez” saxophone or Chet Baker singing or Elvis Presley rocking out or Johnny Cash belting out his lyrics in mono, there’s no turning back. Stereo? You can have it. I prefer mono. It’s the most direct closest to mastertape like sound I’ve yet heard in 30 years.

Now, having said all that, high Rez recordings via Qobuz are great for recent classical recordings. I don’t listen to any modern rock and roll, no modern jazz or folk or rap etc. I can barely tolerate Diana Krall, maybe like once a year! I’d rather hear the great older singers like Billie Holiday, but here mono is king.

I know I have strange tastes, but it’s my choice based on extensive listening 4-5 hours everyday. The day Frank Sinatra on Qobuz sounds better than my Garrard 301, I’ll sell my turntables. Hasn’t happened yet. I keep hoping. One day they’ll figure out how to do streaming right. Till then I’ll stick to mono vinyl for the classic pre-1970s stuff.
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 4:56 PM Post #19,539 of 27,021
Hopefully you're using a single speaker when listening to mono recordings.

A pair of speakers arranged in a conventional equilateral listening triangle suffers from a dip in the frequency response in the 2kHz region due to destructive interference.
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 5:29 PM Post #19,540 of 27,021
Agreed on all accounts, that's exactly what I do, except I've been sticking to optical, but I'll have to compare it to coax and usb again, since the new headphones are a lot more resolving.

Any links to these Sermons?
Google? lol.

Optical makes sense for computer from an isolation perspective, but spdif over optical is not ideal due to conversions on both ends and non idealistic transmission medium. So you gotta balance isolation with USB's error correction ability, buffering and signal reclocking and figure out which method sounds best in your case. I guess it's YMMV as in most things.
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 6:08 PM Post #19,542 of 27,021
Hopefully you're using a single speaker when listening to mono recordings.

A pair of speakers arranged in a conventional equilateral listening triangle suffers from a dip in the frequency response in the 2kHz region due to destructive interference.
Interesting. What I have found from experience is that mono sounds best when I listen off axis to just one loudspeaker. Particularly with my large 5” Quad 2905 Electrostatics, which have no crossover and are designed to mimic a point source. I can sit very close, like 3 feet away and hear the very pure near field sound without any harshness or discomfort. Or I lie down on a sofa just off the right loudspeaker and the sound just wafts up to the ceiling. Strange things happen with the Miyajima Zero Infinity mono cartridge, a bruiser of a cartridge that’s like 3 times as big as most standard cartridges. It generated subjectively a weird stereo effect where sound seems to come from a halo around not just one speaker, but both. I don’t miss stereo at all on great mono recordings. Because mono cartridges only respond to lateral groove modulations, surface noise is almost completely absent.

Let’s face it, on almost all stereo recordings, you get this fake effect that has nothing to do with reality. Listen to Bob Dylan’s great albums. His voice is on one channel, the harmonica is on the other. Say what? It’s the same dude playing both. Sometimes they screw up the panning of the sound, and mid chord the voice or the harmonica shifts channels. It sounds awful. Dylan hated his stereo reissues, as did The Beatles.

Now on classical music when you have this giant 300 piece orchestra playing, stereo does sound better and more closely resembles what you hear in a concert hall. But here again, take a recording of piano music, say Chopin waltzes or Beethoven sonatas having heard many piano concerts in a wide variety of concert halls all over the world, there is no stereo in a piano concert. The piano is placed perpendicular to the audience so you can see the pianist playing. You get a lovely mono sound. On piano recordings there’s this dreadful separation of chords across both channels. I always feel like my head is buried inside the piano when I hear a piano recording. Most unnatural. And the microphones are placed inside the piano often, giving a glassy brittle sound that bears no resemblance to how a Steinway sounds in a great concert hall.
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 7:48 PM Post #19,543 of 27,021
USB audio (UAC2) has no error correction capability, nor the possibility of packet-retransmit.

It does have a checksum, but all that does is let’s you detect if you’re getting bad data … not fix it.
It all depends on how the USB driver is configured.
 
Mar 22, 2022 at 7:49 PM Post #19,544 of 27,021
Interesting. What I have found from experience is that mono sounds best when I listen off axis to just one loudspeaker. Particularly with my large 5” Quad 2905 Electrostatics, which have no crossover and are designed to mimic a point source. I can sit very close, like 3 feet away and hear the very pure near field sound without any harshness or discomfort. Or I lie down on a sofa just off the right loudspeaker and the sound just wafts up to the ceiling. Strange things happen with the Miyajima Zero Infinity mono cartridge, a bruiser of a cartridge that’s like 3 times as big as most standard cartridges. It generated subjectively a weird stereo effect where sound seems to come from a halo around not just one speaker, but both. I don’t miss stereo at all on great mono recordings. Because mono cartridges only respond to lateral groove modulations, surface noise is almost completely absent.

Let’s face it, on almost all stereo recordings, you get this fake effect that has nothing to do with reality. Listen to Bob Dylan’s great albums. His voice is on one channel, the harmonica is on the other. Say what? It’s the same dude playing both. Sometimes they screw up the panning of the sound, and mid chord the voice or the harmonica shifts channels. It sounds awful. Dylan hated his stereo reissues, as did The Beatles.

Now on classical music when you have this giant 300 piece orchestra playing, stereo does sound better and more closely resembles what you hear in a concert hall. But here again, take a recording of piano music, say Chopin waltzes or Beethoven sonatas having heard many piano concerts in a wide variety of concert halls all over the world, there is no stereo in a piano concert. The piano is placed perpendicular to the audience so you can see the pianist playing. You get a lovely mono sound. On piano recordings there’s this dreadful separation of chords across both channels. I always feel like my head is buried inside the piano when I hear a piano recording. Most unnatural. And the microphones are placed inside the piano often, giving a glassy brittle sound that bears no resemblance to how a Steinway sounds in a great concert hall.
Agreed on the classical recordings. A lot of them are pretty dreadful. And you are right about sticking mics inside the piano. I have no idea why they do that.
 

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