CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Sampajanna]

Part of me wonders whether head fi injects these users into the thread… I find I’m skimming past what could be useful posts about interesting albums just to see the next argumentative post…. Carry on!

 

[Sampajanna]

 

[Interceptor]

While I am waiting for Riviera aic 10 to then seek for THE SERVER that suits the compete system I am very impressed of what I hear with my Abyss Phi direct from Dave. I can hardly believe that a extra amp can noticeably increase the Soundquality that I already have. I have only heard something comparable from sun audio 300B directly with my abyss (the 1 one). The only problem and the reason I sold the amp was the humm that I heard from sun audio.
Anyway I want to try a different server on my system with riviera and only if I hear a clear progress to my Auralic Aries I will be spending my money. On my list are: Antipodes k30,50, DCS bridge, aurender N20, Lumin U1, Grimm MU1. Any other ideas? I am wondering how much improvement do I get from Investment an the high end server.

Or around EUR500 to upgrade to a hoer-wege replacement power supply inside your Aries G2.1 - which I have done - and this does improve the naturalness of the stream that goes into my DAVE - an audible improvement, particularly with headphones.

https://hoer-wege.de/produkt/der-hoer-wege-medien-player-auralic-aries-g2-1/ various ranslation tools are avaible online. Stephan Hoer-Wege is very easy to deal with. The H-W upgrade takes about 4 weeks to fully settle in.

Note that Stephan Hoer-Wege prefers the SPDIF connections (RCA or AES) out of the Aries over USB. I am using a Studio Connections Black Star AES or a WAVE Storm RCA/BNC to connect to my DAVE which together with a Vitus RI-101 integrated amp is finally giving me a musical, rather than technical, listening experience without losing accuracy or definition of the instruments.

 

[skootb]

Thoughts on the internal headphone amp vs using one of the fancy new ones like the Ferrum Oor?

I'm happy so far with my Dave headphone out, but am curious if I'm missing anything with one of these newer headphone amps.

How many of you run Dave > another headphone amp?

 

[SteveHulk]

Thoughts on the internal headphone amp vs using one of the fancy new ones like the Ferrum Oor?

I'm happy so far with my Dave headphone out, but am curious if I'm missing anything with one of these newer headphone amps.

How many of you run Dave > another headphone amp?

I run DAVE into Woo Audio WA5LE driving Audeze LCD-4. Before I had the Woo I drove them direct from the DAVE.

The extra amp just gives the sound much more welly basically. If you use cans that are anything like hard to drive you'll need it and if you listen to metal you'll definitely need it

 

[F208Frank]

Re: Using an external headphone amp with the DAVE and Abyss Phi



Background

When I got the DAVE, I was a bit concerned about its capability to drive my Abyss Phi headphones. At the time, I had the Audio GD NOS11 DAC/amp, which has a very powerful amplifier section (about 8W at 50Ohm), so I thought that if I was not satisfied with the DAVE amp I still could use the NOS11.

I was very happy when I noticed that the DAVE direct could make the Abyss sing as easily as the NOS11 amp, with much better transparency and speed.

I tried some explosive tracks, such as the Tchaikovsky Ouverture 1812 (those cannons!) or the Grieg’s funeral march for Rikard Nordraak (very violent tympani attack at about 1:00 on the Reference Recordings version), and some organ music for the lowest registers, and the DAVE coped well to the much more powerful NOS11 amp in terms of impact and extension, while meeting my usual loudness demands.

Based on this, I decided do sell the NOS11 and go straight from DAVE to the Abyss for the next future.



That audiophile itch ...

I am enjoying the DAVE + Abyss combo very much since several months now, and I could very happily have lived with it as my endgame set-up.

But (of course, there was a “but” coming), occasionally I was feeling that I was not getting the very last drop of juice out of my music. I like to listen to classical – actually that’s most of my listening – and other acoustic music to realistic loudness levels (i.e. those I experience at the live event), and, especially when the recording level is low (which happens often on classical recordings to allow headroom for 20-25dB dynamic range) I was a bit let down by some lack of dynamics and a slight flatness of presentation.

It was not only a matter of SPL, but also / mostly about the visceral impact of abrupt dynamic changes.

Also, bass extension is extremely good with Abyss + DAVE, but the very last octave (40-20Hz) was a tiny bit rolled off in some cases and less physically involving compared to live feeling, while still being the best I heard from a headphone system.



Scratching that itch is expensive ...

I was not sure this was due to the amp, or to the Abyss or to my hearing sensitivity or tastes, but anyway I decided to try again an external amp with the DAVE, and this time I decided to go with the most synergistic approach I could figure out (and afford) by choosing the Eleven XI Audio Formula S amp + Powerman external power supply, i.e. a combo which was allegedly developed to fully exploit the AB 1266 headphone potential.

During my money-back return period, I half hoped that the XI Audio gear did not make a significant difference to save my pennies for something else (non-audio related), but ... well, if you’re a member of the (audiophile) “lunatic fringe” (cit.) you already know how this ended up



DAVE direct vs. Formula S + Powerman

I started playing high-dynamics classical music, namely the tracks mentioned above, plus some symphonies from Beethoven and Mahler, and a few romantic piano sonatas with challenging dynamics transients.

Not only both visceral impact of extreme dynamics transient and sub-bass response improved, but the overall sound presentation acquired more breadth, spaciousness and soundstage size.

While no specific coloration has been added, the whole musical spectrum appears slightly warmer / darker and richer of harmonics (especially at medium-to-high volume), musically complex passages played at lifelike levels (think orchestral fortissimos) keep openness, composure, readability and texture, instead of becoming slightly congested / compressed.

Organ tracks become literally skull rattling, and I can feel the air displacement from the lower frequencies or from sharp transients (double bass attack) coming from the Abyss drivers at full.

Switching to more relaxed and quieter genres like baroque or small jazz combos, or acoustic / vocal tracks changes the scenario to a much more mixed feeling.

With the Formula S I get this slightly thicker and more open presentation, and the tonality of the woods is a bit sweeter (less strident) and more fleshed out, but the sheer transparency, depth of field and detail retrieval of the direct DAVE drive is unmatched.

Room reverberations, ambience effects, minute background noises, very delicate details like the breathing of a singer or even he/she moving or licking his/her lips are better captured by the DAVE and the shivers I get from these cues are just more intense.

The pristine transparency you get from DAVE directly is somewhat veiled with the Formula S, but to notice this I had to do repeated A/B tests on specific tracks, and I still would rate the DAVE + Formula S as utterly transparent as a combo.

Double bass attack, physical impact and decay, deeply descending scales of electric bass, drums solos are just amazing with the Formula S in the chain.

Classic rock (Dire Straits, Pink Floyd, Springsteen, Led Zeppelin, Police, ...) is also more satisfying via the amp thanks to its slightly more forgiving nature, and the additional fleshy tonality and bass oomph, and so are the occasional pop / EDM tracks I tried (U2, Depeche Mode, Daft Punk, ...) especially when played LOUD.



So, was adding that amp to the Abyss worth?

There is no 2-letter answer to answer to this question, I am afraid.

To me, adding an external amp to the DAVE when driving the Abyss Phi, is most certainly not “necessary” and I can see myself coming back to DAVE alone depending on mood, listening volume, music type.

That said, for some music genres like large symphonic works, tumultuous piano pieces and generally explosive dynamic compositions / passages, and in certain areas of the spectrum (e.g. the deepest bass frequency) the uplift of my music enjoyment from the Formula S is really significant.

Since I am intoxicated by the physical, emotional and intellectual (?) experience my Abyss headphones are able to provide, I have decided to do what I can in order to make them perform at best in every possible musical context, so I am happy to complement the DAVE with the XI Audio gear.

Of course, I feel I am well into the diminishing return here, and you may get much better value for (this kind of) money by upgrading other components of your rig - or spending in a nice vacation in Hawaii, or buying CDs or going to live concerts for the next few years, for that matter.

Just as a final word of caution, I have found that you may also make the DAVE sound definitely worse by adding an amp, so not any powerful and / or well-reviewed amp is going to be worth, and synergy and subjective taste are key factors, as usual.

Sorry for the lengthy post, hope it is helpful for somebody ... also, I would be very interested in others' experience when pairing the DAVE with an external amp to drive demanding HP’s!

Wonderful post, always interesting to read your stuff, the same person who back then got me into the AIC 10.

 

[Uncle Monty]

Thoughts on the internal headphone amp vs using one of the fancy new ones like the Ferrum Oor?

I'm happy so far with my Dave headphone out, but am curious if I'm missing anything with one of these newer headphone amps.

How many of you run Dave > another headphone amp?

Dave - Manley Absolute - ZMF Verite Closed - I think the DAVE sounds better in pure DAC mode and you can choose an amp that suits your musical tastes / phones impedance etc. Budget for quality connectors - RCAs or XLRs - your DAVE deserves them...

 

[F208Frank]

Former Dave owner here, any Dave owner have the Sagra as well and enjoy it as well? My sagra is incoming soon and will be my first r2r dac!

 

[Slim1970]

Former Dave owner here, any Dave owner have the Sagra as well and enjoy it as well? My sagra is incoming soon and will be my first r2r dac!

I owned them both at the same time. The Sagra is a lot smoother and warmer with the typical R2R sound. Were the Dave is insightful and shows great depth into the music the Sagra is less detailed, notes are rounded, its less incisive, but it is a lot more musical.

You may find that you miss the precision and snappiness of the Dave. I put a Singxer SU-6 in front on the Sagra to help sharpen the imaging and improve the transient response. I also used silver cabling to help liven the sound up. I guess I was trying to infuse some of the Dave’s sound characteristics into the Sagra DAC.

The XIAudio stack does help fill in the TC’s midrange. So there’s that.

 

[F208Frank]

I owned them both at the same time. The Sagra is a lot smoother and warmer with the typical R2R sound. Were the Dave is insightful and shows great depth into the music the Sagra is less detailed, notes are rounded, its less incisive, but it is a lot more musical.

You may find that you miss the precision and snappiness of the Dave. I put a Singxer SU-6 in front on the Sagra to help sharpen the imaging and improve the transient response. I also used silver cabling to help liven the sound up. I guess I was trying to infuse some of the Dave’s sound characteristics into the Sagra DAC.

The XIAudio stack does help fill in the TC’s midrange. So there’s that.

Thank you for the reply!

"The XIAudio stack does help fill in the TC’s midrange. So there’s that."

^ when you are mentioning the XIAudio stack, are you stating that the formula s/powerman themselves are enough to fill in TC mid range or were you referring to the full stack?

At the end of the day did you prefer the sagra or the dave with the formula s/powerman combo?

My rough logic for my choices for the amp choice and dac choice were because since I owned the HPA4 and the WA33 prior and I felt one was too clinical and one was too musical (my preference leans towards ss amps) so the formula s/powerman would be some sort of middle ground.

For the dac choice, you may laugh. I chose the sagra to attempt to save money from upgrading the SC cable this time around, since the Sagra is more "musical" being a R2R dac, hoping that it would fill in the mids of the TC without the SC cable.

Overall would you say my logic is flawed or incorrect from the above since you owned all the items along side the Dave?

Thanks much in advance.

 

[Slim1970]

"The XIAudio stack does help fill in the TC’s midrange. So there’s that."

^ when you are mentioning the XIAudio stack, are you stating that the formula s/powerman themselves are enough to fill in TC mid range or were you referring to the full stack?

It's more of the Sagra DAC filling in the gaps in sound of the TC's. The Formula S/Powerman is fairly transparent to source.

At the end of the day did you prefer the sagra or the dave with the formula s/powerman combo?

The Dave was stellar with the Formula S/Powerman. It comes down to preference really. The Sagra DAC is its natural mate. When I hooked it up to the Formula S/Powerman the sound just fell into place from a sound standpoint. Since I wanted an alternate sound I really wanted to like to Sagra DAC.

My rough logic for my choices for the amp choice and dac choice were because since I owned the HPA4 and the WA33 prior and I felt one was too clinical and one was too musical (my preference leans towards ss amps) so the formula s/powerman would be some sort of middle ground.

For the dac choice, you may laugh. I chose the sagra to attempt to save money from upgrading the SC cable this time around, since the Sagra is more "musical" being a R2R dac, hoping that it would fill in the mids of the TC without the SC cable.

Overall would you say my logic is flawed or incorrect from the above since you owned all the items along side the Dave?

Thanks much in advance.

You are on the right track in your thinking. The Sagra DAC coupled to the Formula S/Powerman will get you the sound you want. I'm using a DHC Complement 4 on my TC's and full XIAudio stack made them sound full bodied pushing the midrange forward making the sound more balanced. Based on what I heard you don't need the SC cable.

 

[F208Frank]

It's more of the Sagra DAC filling in the gaps in sound of the TC's. The Formula S/Powerman is fairly transparent to source.

The Dave was stellar with the Formula S/Powerman. It comes down to preference really. The Sagra DAC is its natural mate. When I hooked it up to the Formula S/Powerman the sound just fell into place from a sound standpoint. Since I wanted an alternate sound I really wanted to like to Sagra DAC.

You are on the right track in your thinking. The Sagra DAC coupled to the Formula S/Powerman will get you the sound you want. I'm using a DHC Complement 4 on my TC's and full XIAudio stack made them sound full bodied pushing the midrange forward making the sound more balanced. Based on what I heard you don't need the SC cable.

Just want to say thanks once again for the response. Immensely helpful and very satisfying to "guess" my way around to my personal land of the free based on prior gear used.

With all that said I am pretty sure Dave + Formula S + Powerman would be awesome. I am just trying to save money for now this time around re entering the hobby.

Humans are interesting creatures, sometimes you don't value and recognize what you had/have until it's lost or gone from the life. Easier said than done sometimes...

 

[Slim1970]

Just want to say thanks once again for the response. Immensely helpful and very satisfying to "guess" my way around to my personal land of the free based on prior gear used.

With all that said I am pretty sure Dave + Formula S + Powerman would be awesome. I am just trying to save money for now this time around re entering the hobby.

Humans are interesting creatures, sometimes you don't value and recognize what you had/have until it's lost or gone from the life. Easier said than done sometimes...

No problem, the full XIAudio is a great way to come back to head-fi. With you having owned the Dave previously you already know what you’ll be missing. The Dave is the best DAC I've had the privilege of owning so far.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Isn't Sagra dac using soekris board inside?

 

[F208Frank]

Isn't Sagra dac using soekris board inside?

I hear variations of this statement. I myself am unsure. All I do know is that it is a balanced dac, which is little strange considering that the amp design is not balanced.

Anyways thread should probably get back to the Dave before people start getting angry.

The dave was definitely a pleasure to own.