[ecwl]

100% identical? I am asking, as preamp to preamp is generally not recommended. I felt like I was getting some distortion from my streamer to my preamp. I had been setting the streamer to control the volume. I decreased it some and the issue was resolved but when setting the streamer to control the volume it converts DSD to PCM. I remembered this post in the back of my mind and decided to go the preamp route as to not have DSD converted. This post was very helpful!

For clarification:
1) DAVE doesn’t have a “pre-amp”. It is a high-voltage DAC that has a high-end digital volume control. It can go up to 6-7V so to make it simple for users, when the digital volume control is set to -3dB, the DAC puts out 3V so an addition “mode” is created called “DAC mode” so that people who have turntables can pair DAVE with an analog preamplifier without thinking too hard about it and just setting DAVE to the “DAC mode”. This is why if you put Chord DAVE in ”pre-amp” mode and set it to -3dB = 3V, and connect it to an analog pre-amp, you’re not putting the Chord DAC through two preamps with further degradation. Your analog pre-amp has to receive a signal from the DAC, assuming it doesn’t clip at 3V, then it usually expects 3V from the DAC and that’s the signal Chord is providing the pre-amp.
2) You should not set volume at the streamer for Chord DACs with digital volume controls. Chord DACs usually adjust volumes after upsampling at 705.6kHz/768kHz with >24 bit accuracy whereas if you’re adjusting the volume at the streamer, you’re usually adjusting at the native 44.1kHz with <24 bit accuracy (though not always). The digital volume control is always going to be more accurate through the Chord hardware than through the streamer/PC.
3) If you’re using your streamer to control the volume (and I doubt most streamers actually increase the volume beyond the original signal) and you noticed that your preamp was having some distortions and when you set the streamer volume lower and you hear less distortion, usually, what this means is that your analog preamp is clipping at 3V. This is the other reason for not setting Chord DAVE to DAC mode because I have seen some surprisingly high-end pre-amp clip at 3V (and rarely even at 2V). If you need to have an analog preamp in the chain, your best bet then is to set the streamer to stream bit-perfect to M-scaler/DAVE and then set DAVE to -7dB for 2V (or if you’re using M-Scaler set DAVE to -4dB) and then use the analog volume control of your pre-amp, you should no longer hear the distortion As your pre-amp is no longer clipped. This is likely the optimal setup for your system.

Of course some of this is speculation as I didn’t get a detailed description of your setup and issues. But based on what has been said, this would be my best guess as to your distortion issue.

 

[jacc]

I wrote to ATC and I just got a fast reply: no problem at all to power the ATC off every evening (great customers support!).
So the case is closed for me, easy solution... My dealer advised wrongly when I bought them, what a waste, besides the heat and the money I really hate the idea to waste electricity/water etc
Anyway always good to get ideas from this community.

I wrote to ATC and I just got a fast reply: no problem at all to power the ATC off every evening (great customers support!).
So the case is closed for me, easy solution... My dealer advised wrongly when I bought them, what a waste, besides the heat and the money I really hate the idea to waste electricity/water etc
Anyway always good to get ideas from this community.

I also switch off my ACT50aslt every night as it is more environmental friendly. It is a bit of a hassle but you may leave your preamp / source on as I don't think they draw much power

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

Ok, I have a nice glass of red wine at my side and it is time to wind down and listen to some usb cables. I was anticipating that this was going to be a difficult to hear differences type of experience because I had my usb cable skeptics hat pulled down tight over my ears.

But here we are only 30 minutes into the comparison and I feel compelled to do an interim report.

I am listening with an Innuos Statement running Roon and set up to output to the experimental Squeezebox Lite endpoint. (Which by the way is now rock solid since installing the Innuos 1.4.4 upgrade a couple of days ago).

The Statement is connected by USB to an MScaler connected to Dave by dual BNC cables which you can probably guess which but I can’t name. Both MScaler and Dave are powered by Sean Jacobs DC4 power supplies.

The Dave is connected to Pass Labs XA60.8 monoblocs amps driving Spendor SP200 speakers.

I normally use Supra USB 2.0 cables which are not expensive but are well made and sound fine. By that I mean I had probably made up my mind that USB cables are pretty much of a muchness and as long as they were fully compliant with USB then there couldn’t be any issues.

Indeed when I sat down just now to focus in on the Supra cables as a reference in the system it sounded amazing. In fact just the way it always sounds. It was stunning.

Sorry, just let me reach forward in Keith Floyd style for a slurp of wine (does anyone remember his cookery programmes?)

Where was I, yes, then I tried the Sablon 2020 cable and the Callisto USB cable and I admit was instantly blown away by both of them. This was not a subtle change. Gone was a slightly bloated bass that I hadn’t noticed before and instead there was rock solid bass with all sorts of detail. There are lots of other changes to the music but now I’m settling in to listen to each in more detail. It is now not a question of whether I will change my usb cable, rather which one I will change to using.

I was not expecting this.

Any further impressions?

 

[skootb]

Ok, I have a nice glass of red wine at my side and it is time to wind down and listen to some usb cables. I was anticipating that this was going to be a difficult to hear differences type of experience because I had my usb cable skeptics hat pulled down tight over my ears.

But here we are only 30 minutes into the comparison and I feel compelled to do an interim report.

I am listening with an Innuos Statement running Roon and set up to output to the experimental Squeezebox Lite endpoint. (Which by the way is now rock solid since installing the Innuos 1.4.4 upgrade a couple of days ago).

The Statement is connected by USB to an MScaler connected to Dave by dual BNC cables which you can probably guess which but I can’t name. Both MScaler and Dave are powered by Sean Jacobs DC4 power supplies.

The Dave is connected to Pass Labs XA60.8 monoblocs amps driving Spendor SP200 speakers.

I normally use Supra USB 2.0 cables which are not expensive but are well made and sound fine. By that I mean I had probably made up my mind that USB cables are pretty much of a muchness and as long as they were fully compliant with USB then there couldn’t be any issues.

Indeed when I sat down just now to focus in on the Supra cables as a reference in the system it sounded amazing. In fact just the way it always sounds. It was stunning.

Sorry, just let me reach forward in Keith Floyd style for a slurp of wine (does anyone remember his cookery programmes?)

Where was I, yes, then I tried the Sablon 2020 cable and the Callisto USB cable and I admit was instantly blown away by both of them. This was not a subtle change. Gone was a slightly bloated bass that I hadn’t noticed before and instead there was rock solid bass with all sorts of detail. There are lots of other changes to the music but now I’m settling in to listen to each in more detail. It is now not a question of whether I will change my usb cable, rather which one I will change to using.

I was not expecting this.

I miss my xa60.8s. had them each on a sablon gran corona with sablon panatela cables to the Von Schwekert unifield 3s...it was killer

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Whilst we are eagerly awaiting TU’s thoughts on USB cables I thought I would check Dave’s handling of clocked and un-clocked data feeds.

So I moved my USB cable from the Innuos Statement USB DAC out (clocked) to the plain USB out (unclocked). Even though Dave re-clocks everything there is a clear difference. Un-clocked output results in less focus, less resolution and a less musical feed. It is less engaging.

In a way that surprises me. I didn’t expect a difference.

 

[Triode User]

Whilst we are eagerly awaiting TU’s thoughts on USB cables I thought I would check Dave’s handling of clocked and un-clocked data feeds.

So I moved my USB cable from the Innuos Statement USB DAC out (clocked) to the plain USB out (unclocked). Even though Dave re-clocks everything there is a clear difference. Un-clocked output results in less focus, less resolution and a less musical feed. It is less engaging.

In a way that surprises me. I didn’t expect a difference.

It is however consistent with my listening with my previous Innuos Zenith SE with and without the Innuos Phoenix reclocker. The Phoenix made a clearly audible improvement in all the areas you mention and also to me ears gave a clear improvement to the bass depth and detail.

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

The structure of music when correct is immediately noticeable imo. From the first quiet opening bars of Verdi's Requiem it was obvious to me which was the right USB stream.

There is something about 'live' music (which can be heard even from outside a venue or room) that resonates in the body. It doesn't even have to be a rythme. It can be simply a chord but it is immediately noticeable is engaging. When hifi is very good, the same can be achieved and when right is equally engaging even with unfamiliar music too. I think the reproduction of harmonic resonance is critical to this primaeval engagement with music. Dynamics too. The harmonics of brass instruments played in unison meld to one in live performance. They should do the same with our hifi I think.

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

Which would make the biggest difference; a 'fancy pants' power cord for the Dave or the Streamer?

 

[onlychild]

Which would make the biggest difference; a 'fancy pants' power cord for the Dave or the Streamer?

If by streamer, you mean an upgraded server like an Innuos, then a streamer upgrade will be more beneficial.

In my opinion, source is still king. If it’s lost at the source, you can’t recover it down the chain, no matter how good your dac or amp is.

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Whilst I agree with OC on source, Dave can do a lot with a simple source. I think cost is always a consideration too. For me the biggest jump in SQ I heard on my system for least cost in the last 3 years (and they are not cheap) was changing 5 fuses over to Synergistic Research Orange Fuses.

Improving my electrics overall delivered very long lasting results in terms of musical enjoyment. Good clean flowing electrics make even average cost hifi sound much more natural imo. Especially mass orchestral strings. I used to think the lack of smoothness and edge on mass strings was on the recording but it is not.

There is some great stuff out there these days and I am continually surprised at the quality of gear. I recently bought a Kimber Palladian PK10 power cable for £1500 and tbh if I had known it would give such clean quality power and outstanding weighty and articulate bass I would have saved on the Isotek Ascension power cables at double the price. Though very good, the the Ascension is not twice as good.

Audio Bacon did a review of 27 power cables here and The Kimber Palladian PK10 did pretty well
https://audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

Whilst I agree with OC on source, Dave can do a lot with a simple source. I think cost is always a consideration too. For me the biggest jump in SQ I heard on my system for least cost in the last 3 years (and they are not cheap) was changing 5 fuses over to Synergistic Research Orange Fuses.

Improving my electrics overall delivered very long lasting results in terms of musical enjoyment. Good clean flowing electrics make even average cost hifi sound much more natural imo. Especially mass orchestral strings. I used to think the lack of smoothness and edge on mass strings was on the recording but it is not.

There is some great stuff out there these days and I am continually surprised at the quality of gear. I recently bought a Kimber Palladian PK10 power cable for £1500 and tbh if I had known it would give such clean quality power and outstanding weighty and articulate bass I would have saved on the Isotek Ascension power cables at double the price. Though very good, the the Ascension is not twice as good.

Audio Bacon did a review of 27 power cables here and The Kimber Palladian PK10 did pretty well
https://audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/

I did read that article and I also took the advice of forum posters as yourself. I bought two different Shunyata Power Cords and I plugged the first one delivered into my integrated. The second one arrives today and I can either plug it into the Dave or the Lumin U1. I will go with the source first...

 

[Ciggavelli]

I have a full set up Danacables Source Clarifiers on all my equipment (DAVE, WA33, Innuos Zenith Mk3, Innuos Phoenix, Schiit Jotunheim R), an upgraded 2-prong Audioquest power cord for my M-Scaler (Danacables doesn't make 2 prong power cords), and a Danacables PowerForce for my power conditioner. I found improvements when adding one at a time. And with all of them installed, there definitely is cumulative benefit. I recently just checked what is sounded like with just stock cables, and it definitely sounds worse with no aftermarket power cords.

The Danacable Power Cords are like $500 a piece, which is not an insubstantial amount of money when added together, but the cords are definitely on the "cheap" side of things when it comes to quality power cables. I'm curious as to what some of those multi-thousand dollar cords sound like, but the price isn't worth the price of admission to me at the moment (I'd rather buy other components for the money)

 

[thomaskong78]

I did read that article and I also took the advice of forum posters as yourself. I bought two different Shunyata Power Cords and I plugged the first one delivered into my integrated. The second one arrives today and I can either plug it into the Dave or the Lumin U1. I will go with the source first...

Synergistic Research Blue PC(around 550$), I had bought 6 of them using 3 for 2 promo two years ago.

I had compared it with 2k$ respected power cable( I will not disclose the name).

2k$ one is slightly better than Syn Blue on every respects more open sound and dynamics (about 10-15% better).

But I am not willing to shell out 12k$ for 6 power cables.

Recently I had got 250$ 1578 Melz( 6sn7 variant) in my Line Magnetic 508 amp.

Wow it made 3 times more improvement as the 2k$ power cables with nice tone, dynamics, wide and deep soundstage.

It was game changer.

Law of diminishing apply heavily to power cable..

You do not need to spend more than 500$ on PC but you need to find one which suit your system and taste.

 

[Triode User]

I would say to see how much the total bill for power cords is looking to come out at for the system and then compare that to installing a Sean Jacobs DC4 or DC3 power supply for the Dave. I was stunned at how much it improved Dave. I sit here listening to it and thinking that if Dave 2 came out tomorrow it would have a hard time being better.

 

[thomaskong78]

One more thing is that I have Dave connected using Syn Blue PC to separate isolation transformer (500Watts) and it further improve the sound.

But isolation transformer cost me 150$ only.