[Jon L]

Hi @ray-dude

Apologies for bugging you with this speaker question, but you are in a unique position in this hobby. Outside this Head-Fi simulation world, I doubt I would be able to find any answers. Too much foot traffic on other threads so will ask here since it could apply to DAVE, TT2 or H2.

Recently, I re-purchased a Mojo. To my surprise I was able to get it completely neutral and uncoloured. No warmness at all. I label it "Hugo1.5" because it's more a Hugo1 sig than a Mojo sig. I run a i2S source and a glass optical cable, so no USB or headphone manufacturer adding it's own flavour in the mix. Just super neutral, transparent and studio reference ready. This has me considering that my Hugo2 transportable maybe expendable, so looking into upstream Chord and speakers. The below poster which probably had around half a mill in audio/headphone gear still craves for these same CIEMs to this day, so I think I can be content with my portable setup and move on to something else. These are the only neutral done right CIEMs ever produced (Jerry Harvey tuned in his prime). This makes the Hugo2 a luxury because a TT2 w/ speakers may make more sense since my Hugo2 transportable rig overall is close in cost to a standalone TT2 and the Mojo fulfills the CIEM duties neutrally.



So here's the speaker question. I want max resolution and max transparency, but I don't want to go the Voxativ or Omega route. I think I can get something close with a 2-way as long as the crossover points don't overlap too much. I don't want a passive crossover in the mix since I'm driving direct. No point in going down this rabbit hole if I can't get max res max transparency. I want to run active. The below photo speaker specs are 8ohm, 91db for the mid-woofer and 8ohm, 92db for the beryllium tweeter. These are modern speakers with high sensitivity and extremely fast response to transients which should pair well with Chord DACs. I think the H2 maybe able to run these to some extent.







Questions?:

• Basically, I can just use RCA -> tweeter and 6.3mm -> midwoofer? I'm not sure if XLR will be too overpowering.
• Do you see any issues with running a 2-way without the passive crossover? Chord is unique in that the traditional methods don't apply, so I think I can get away with this method crossover-less. The midwoofer plays high enough and the tweeter plays low enough so it covers the whole freq range.

Thanks and surfs' up!

Where is the speaker photo from? I see substantial passive crossover sitting on top of the speakers, and there is essentially zero chance the two drivers without any kind of crossover will sound "better" than with proper crossover, passive or active. The woofer will 'beam" like crazy as frequencies go higher, with likely peaky/choppy frequency response as cone breaks up. Crossover will filter these nasties out usually. Tweeter will likely will blow up if driven with full frequency at loudish levels. so some kind protection is needed. It too will have likely large resonance peaks as it tries to reach down lower in frequency, which crossover will usually filter out.

 

[Jon L]

And here is the FR for that ellipticor woofer.

 

[474194]

Where is the speaker photo from? I see substantial passive crossover sitting on top of the speakers, and there is essentially zero chance the two drivers without any kind of crossover will sound "better" than with proper crossover, passive or active. The woofer will 'beam" like crazy as frequencies go higher, with likely peaky/choppy frequency response as cone breaks up. Crossover will filter these nasties out usually. Tweeter will likely will blow up if driven with full frequency at loudish levels. so some kind protection is needed. It too will have likely large resonance peaks as it tries to reach down lower in frequency, which crossover will usually filter out.

It's from this fella whom sells DIY kits w/ passive:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellipticor-3.htm

http://www.jantzen-audio.com/ellipticor3/

Since Chord products are different from traditional and can output from 3.5mm, 6.3mm, XLR and RCA in-sync, I was just seeing if 2-way is a possibility.

Looks like I need to stick with full range drivers if I want max res max transparency.

A full range (Chord direct) w/ woofers (RCA to amp) may also work.

These 6+1 2-ways are common for a complete system. It's just the overlap I'm concerned over without a passive.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellipticor-1.htm

I can play it safe by adding an electronic crossover and amps w/ h2 RCA source, but exploring Chord direct output first. It defeats my goal of maxing out resolution and transparency, but should still sound good. No passives involved:

 

[474194]

Thanks for the discussion guys and sorry for the distraction.

It became clear after the exchanges to just re-purpose the Hugo2. That seems like the optimal choice versus upgrading for this specific application. The Hugo2 was in limbo and I just didn't know if it served a need anymore, but it does now.

1. Plan A (80%): Go H2 + Electronic Xover + Amps + Ellipticor speaks to compensate for road noise. Should be clean without any passives. As close to direct without being direct I guess.
2. Plan B (20%): Take a risk and go H2 + Voxativ full range. Voxativ doesn't seem durable tho for outside environments, so probably punt / pass.

Carry On.

 

[Triode User]

Looks like I need to stick with full range drivers if I want max res max transparency.

I think full range drivers are something of a misnomer. They used to be described at being good for a girl with a ukulele (or was it banjo?) type of music if you know what I mean. The really good ones are better than that but they get expensive. Make sure you hear before you buy and with all types of music at the likely volumes you will want. What they do, they do well, but they are not a full and proper substitute for traditional drivers with a suitable amplifier if for instance you want to play rock music at realistic levels - IMHO of course. (I call realistic levels where you can feel the music in your stomach as well as hear it.)

 

[jarnopp]

I think full range drivers are something of a misnomer. They used to be described at being good for a girl with a ukulele (or was it banjo?) type of music if you know what I mean. The really good ones are better than that but they get expensive. Make sure you hear before you buy and with all types of music at the likely volumes you will want. What they do, they do well, but they are not a full and proper substitute for traditional drivers with a suitable amplifier if for instance you want to play rock music at realistic levels - IMHO of course. (I call realistic levels where you can feel the music in your stomach as well as hear it.)

You need a good, fast, well-integrated subwoofer for that, but you can get there, or pretty close, while keeping the best of the single-driver aesthetic, i.e., transparency.

 

[474194]

I think full range drivers are something of a misnomer. They used to be described at being good for a girl with a ukulele (or was it banjo?) type of music if you know what I mean. The really good ones are better than that but they get expensive. Make sure you hear before you buy and with all types of music at the likely volumes you will want. What they do, they do well, but they are not a full and proper substitute for traditional drivers with a suitable amplifier if for instance you want to play rock music at realistic levels - IMHO of course. (I call realistic levels where you can feel the music in your stomach as well as hear it.)

Thank you for your concern. Like any tech or products, new school vs. old school thinking will collide. Chord allows a new school of thinking that was never possible for the max resolution transparency. I don't know if I can live without this if I get into speakers as I need this in my portable and transportable gear.

Full range speakers are quite popular in car audio. As long as your nearfield and near on-axis, a tweeter is not needed. Numerous car audio competitions have been won with no tweeters in sight. The experienced judges would be able to distinguish if there was anything audible missing. I understand if you need to fill a room of music, but if you are listening near on-axis, full range can work wonderfully. Every speaker manufacturer in the world tries to gift Steve Hoffman speakers, but he only allows max 3 in his home. If there were any issues with full range, I would think he would not accept them in his home. It just takes time to accept bleeding edge products sometimes.

There's a Voxativ shop between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, so I'll try to take your advice and try to see if it works for my use case.

Since the below speaker is 4 ohm and mid-80's sensitivity, I don't know if the TT2 can handle direct. But the issue again is freq overlap and if one can tell the balance is off. They are developed to match and blend with one another, but will have to try hands-on if you need fixed xover point or if they can run active xover-less. I want pure SQ so would prefer to run just direct.

 

[474194]

There's also a popular DIY full ranger that I have yet seen a Chord poster try out:

https://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w8-1808-8-neodymium-full-range-driver--264-894

http://www.pureaudioproject.com/pro...audioproject-full-range-open-baffle-speakers/

http://www.pureaudioproject.com/product/trio15tb-open-baffle-speakers/

Too large in size for my application, but I think a Mojo can power these.

 

[PhenixS1970]

Exciting times to come. Finally my new speakers, Vivid Audio Kaya 25 are in transit from the factory in South Africa to the distributor. They were ready for shipment 2 months ago but due to the C-lock down suspended. My Chord gear is waiting for their arrival

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

Exciting times to come. Finally my new speakers, Vivid Audio Kaya 25 are in transit from the factory in South Africa to the distributor. They were ready for shipment 2 months ago but due to the C-lock down suspended. My Chord gear is waiting for their arrival

Damn 2 months! I feel your pain...

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

Will do, I have also been loaned a Sablon 2020 by a generous Head-Fi member. . . . . .

We await the the comparisons!

 

[BPED]

Hello, a question for all you Dave experts...

I use Dave as pre-amp connected via XLR to active speakers. I am also considering adding a headphones amp to the Dave via RCA output.
May I use the Dave in DAC mode for my heasdphones amp while also connected to my active speakers? Or will I blow the speakers?
I doesn't seem possible to select output in DAC mode to send signal via RCA and not via XLR.

Is adding a pre-amplifier my only option to solve this?
thank you!

 

[JTbbb]

Hello, a question for all you Dave experts...

I use Dave as pre-amp connected via XLR to active speakers. I am also considering adding a headphones amp to the Dave via RCA output.
May I use the Dave in DAC mode for my heasdphones amp while also connected to my active speakers? Or will I blow the speakers?
I doesn't seem possible to select output in DAC mode to send signal via RCA and not via XLR.

Is adding a pre-amplifier my only option to solve this?
thank you!

I think your safest route would be to leave Dave in pre-amp mode and then turn power off to whichever you are not listening to. I guess the alternative would be DAC mode when listening to the headphone amp, but you would have to make sure your active speakers were powered off!!

 

[BPED]

I think your safest route would be to leave Dave in pre-amp mode and then turn power off to whichever you are not listening to. I guess the alternative would be DAC mode when listening to the headphone amp, but you would have to make sure your active speakers were powered off!!

Hi JTbbb, thanks. Yes it seems there are no options other than turning off the speakers or unplug them... and keeping "pre" mode ensures that if I forget to do that I am not shot through the roof

Turning the speakers off actually is pretty easy but I am afraid that doing that daily I would be damaging them in the medium term. @Triode User , do you have an opinion on the latter point since you are a fellow ATC owner please?

 

[ecwl]

Hello, a question for all you Dave experts...

I use Dave as pre-amp connected via XLR to active speakers. I am also considering adding a headphones amp to the Dave via RCA output.
May I use the Dave in DAC mode for my heasdphones amp while also connected to my active speakers? Or will I blow the speakers?
I doesn't seem possible to select output in DAC mode to send signal via RCA and not via XLR.

Is adding a pre-amplifier my only option to solve this?
thank you!

I think I there are two issues here.
1. You should just always leave your DAVE in pre-amp mode because -3dB is 100% identical to DAC mode. That way, you can compare whether its better to use the volume control of the ATC or the DAVE. In fact, the optimal setup would probably be to figure out the optimal performance volume of the ATC and leave it there and then use DAVE pre-amp to adjust the volume.
2. RCA and XLR are always on at the same time, you can disable them together if you have something plugged into the headphone jack. So theoretically, one solution is to have a good headphone jack to RCA adaptor to plug into your headphone amp to silence the XLR output. Sure, you’ll lose a bit of transparency with this adaptor, instead of directly plugging the headphone amp into the RCA output of the DAVE. But you’re losing transparency by using a headphone amp instead of the headphone jack of DAVE anyway. But yes, if you want to play around with external headphone amps, you’re going to either have to turn off the ATC or plug the headphone amps into the headphone jack, rather than through the RCA at the back