[jonstatt]

I have a bunch of external amps and I keep coming back to the Dave / M Scaler headphone out for Abyss. I have the Benchmark HPA4 on trial, and while it's the closest amp I've heard so far to the Dave output - the HPA4 has a hint of dryness to the midrange, whereas Dave is completely smooth.

I don't sense any lack of power or straining with the Abyss at any volume. Though with some dynamic recordings you just don't have quite the volume you need (I'm always super nervous to go past +3db and that I'll clip).

Rob - any news on the digital amps? There has got to be a way to maintain this quality while retaining the smoothness. I'm up for suggestions on headphone or speaker amps that I haven't tried that - while may not be 100% transparent - will not lose that smooth, analog feel.

I wish I could rig a TT2 to be a headphone amplifier for the Dave.

The HPA4 is as transparent as it gets, as you say. I don't see an alternative for the Abyss right now. You should find the soundstage opens up a bit compared to DAVE directly too. So it's better here and slightly not there. Overall it's still better.

 

[Drewligarchy]

You can run M scaler/Dave at +9dB and with loads above 16 ohms it's impossible to clip...

No news on the amps, been hyper busy on other projects.

Thank you, Rob! I know the DX amps are a ways always.

I am most concerned with the Abyss specifically, which is a 47 ohm load and 88db sensitivity. What kind of headroom can I safely experience my with in that case?

Edit: Re-read your post, Rob. Looks like it won't clip based on parameters you've described.

 

[Drewligarchy]

The HPA4 is as transparent as it gets, as you say. I don't see an alternative for the Abyss right now. You should find the soundstage opens up a bit compared to DAVE directly too. So it's better here and slightly not there. Overall it's still better.

I respectfully disagree. You lose that last bit of “you are there”.

for instance if I am dozing off listening and wake up without remembering I am listening to headphone the difference is:

HPA4: That’s a pristine recording
Dave direct: Who the F$&@ is in my house?

I actually have a brief moment of fear that an intruder has made his way in in the middle of the night.

 

[jonstatt]

I respectfully disagree. You lose that last bit of “you are there”.

for instance if I am dozing off listening and wake up without remembering I am listening to headphone the difference is:

HPA4: That’s a pristine recording
Dave direct: Who the F$&@ is in my house?

I actually have a brief moment of fear that an intruder has made his way in in the middle of the night.

So you prefer DAVE directly with Abyss over the HPA4? There have been many conversations here about the more demanding headphones like the LCD4, Susvara , Abyss etc. To me the DAVE directly sounds more intimate at first listen but then I notice the low end is thicker and lacking some texture. This interferes with my impression of soundstage. From a maths perspective DAVE should have enough oomph to drive the LCD4 but many find the impression of it being held back. Also with any amp ,even the THX 888. there is a risk of RF induced noise getting into play such as with the cables, which can give the impression of a thinner more clinical , possibly sibilant , dry and distant sound. Im not suggesting a stupid price interconnect though.

 

[Drewligarchy]

So you prefer DAVE directly with Abyss over the HPA4? There have been many conversations here about the more demanding headphones like the LCD4, Susvara , Abyss etc. To me the DAVE directly sounds more intimate at first listen but then I notice the low end is thicker and lacking some texture. This interferes with my impression of soundstage. From a maths perspective DAVE should have enough oomph to drive the LCD4 but many find the impression of it being held back. Also with any amp ,even the THX 888. there is a risk of RF induced noise getting into play such as with the cables, which can give the impression of a thinner more clinical , possibly sibilant , dry and distant sound. Im not suggesting a stupid price interconnect though.

Yes. On all types of music where there is enough volume.

Really the only difference between HPA4 and Dave to me is volume (and the lesser dynamics that result from having less volume, no compression), and a slight grain in the midrange. I've been comparing them back and forth for 2 weeks. Your right - cables could help. I've found going single ended also helps, despite the design of the HPA4. I don't have any really expensive interconnects - some Nordost Purple Flares, Audioquest King Cobras, and vanilla Mogami.

I could imagine on the AHB2 with speakers, its maybe not perceivable. But with headphones - and I think the Abyss TC are incredibly resolving (and more so than a lot give them credit for, it's immediate apparent. Completely cliche but a veil which is enough to take you out of it.

 

[Muataz]

So you prefer DAVE directly with Abyss over the HPA4? There have been many conversations here about the more demanding headphones like the LCD4, Susvara , Abyss etc. To me the DAVE directly sounds more intimate at first listen but then I notice the low end is thicker and lacking some texture. This interferes with my impression of soundstage. From a maths perspective DAVE should have enough oomph to drive the LCD4 but many find the impression of it being held back. Also with any amp ,even the THX 888. there is a risk of RF induced noise getting into play such as with the cables, which can give the impression of a thinner more clinical , possibly sibilant , dry and distant sound. Im not suggesting a stupid price interconnect though.

There are many option better transparency and simpler in design and way cheaper.
Archel 2.5 Pro and Schitt magni hersey.

 

[ekfc63]

I respectfully disagree. You lose that last bit of “you are there”.

for instance if I am dozing off listening and wake up without remembering I am listening to headphone the difference is:

HPA4: That’s a pristine recording
Dave direct: Who the F$&@ is in my house?

I actually have a brief moment of fear that an intruder has made his way in in the middle of the night.

Ditto. Heres hoping Rob's digital amps aren't too far away.

 

[jonstatt]

Ditto. Heres hoping Rob's digital amps aren't too far away.

@MacedonianHero Do you have a view on this, DAVE direct to Abyss vs HPA4? What interconnects do you use?

 

[HeeBroG]

In case Rob doesn't see the question, yes it is the figures are the same for Blu2 Dave and Mscaler Dave.

Thanks Nick.

Would you happen to know if the headphone output specs published below are the same when using XLR/RCA outputs to drive high efficiency speakers?

Headphone Output:

1% THD 6.8v RMS with 300Ω (154mW)

1% THD 6.8v RMS with 33Ω (1.4w)

Cheers,

Geoff

 

[Triode User]

Thanks Nick.

Would you happen to know if the headphone output specs published below are the same when using XLR/RCA outputs to drive high efficiency speakers?

Headphone Output:

1% THD 6.8v RMS with 300Ω (154mW)

1% THD 6.8v RMS with 33Ω (1.4w)

Cheers,

Geoff

Hi Geoff, I never use headphones so I’m afraid that any figures relating to them are always skipped by me and so I cannot help on that. Sorry.

 

[HeeBroG]

I rarely use headphones nowadays either but have you seen any published distortion figures for the XLR/RCA outputs when driving high efficiency speakers?

Maybe @robwatts can chime in.

G

 

[CreditingKarma]

Doing a shoot out between the Dave mscaler, dCS Bartok, and fully upgraded MSB premire dac. Using the formula s and traformatic primavera. Headphones Abyss TC, susvara, lcd 4, he1000, and d8000.

Not a bad way to spend the afternoon.

Any predictions on the outcome??????

 

[audio_1]

Doing a shoot out between the Dave mscaler, dCS Bartok, and fully upgraded MSB premire dac. Using the formula s and traformatic primavera. Headphones Abyss TC, susvara, lcd 4, he1000, and d8000.

Not a bad way to spend the afternoon.




Any predictions on the outcome??????

The Dave & mScaler will easily win. Just listen for timing, dynamics and musicality. If the Dave sounds brighter, there is something wrong with your setup. Separate the Dave and mScaler a bit. They shouldn't be stacked on the carpet. The Bartok will sound flat and lack dynamics. The MSB polite and smooth. All imho and experience.

 

[CreditingKarma]

The Dave & mScaler will easily win. Just listen for timing, dynamics and musicality. If the Dave sounds brighter, there is something wrong with your setup. Separate the Dave and mScaler a bit. They shouldn't be stacked on the carpet. The Bartok will sound flat and lack dynamics. The MSB polite and smooth. All imho and experience.

The Dave is not on the floor for testing. We were just setting up. So far I would say that the chord is more analytical. The dCS is somewhere in between the dave and msb. Both the msb and dcs sounded more full and natural. The Dave is incredible sounding and I think it is down to preference.

I think that with speakers the bartok and msb pull ahead of the Dave in terms of fullness and bass presentation more than on headphones. We did speaker listening with my pair of Magico S1MKII.

PS I am completely jealous of you M6. They are incredible speakers.

 

[Thenewguy007]

The Dave is not on the floor for testing. We were just setting up. So far I would say that the chord is more analytical. The dCS is somewhere in between the dave and msb. Both the msb and dcs sounded more full and natural. The Dave is incredible sounding and I think it is down to preference.

I think that with speakers the bartok and msb pull ahead of the Dave in therms of fullness and bass presentation more than on headphones. We did speaker listening with my pair of Magico S1MKII.

Did you hear anything that the Dave did significantly better than the other two DACs?
Did you try seeing how the Dave fares without the MScaler against them?