CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[TheAttorney]

My final ferrite-fi update for a while:

Farnell UK again proved themeselves as the fastest supplier - by delivering my 5 x 12mm 2.5Ghz ferrites the very next day after me ordering around 5pm. .
So at the Destination end (ISORegen) of my USB cable, I replaced 4 x 1Ghz with 4 x 2.5Ghz, and my immediate impression was that the sound was yet clearer and more impactful. But this time there was a downside: it also seemed too clear, i.e. a touch of brightness had crept back in, and that I didn't welcome.

Putting back some 1Ghz ferrites seemed to tame that brightness, bringing it back to a more balanced, natural sound.
The moral of this story is that the 2.5Ghz ferrites are not necessarily a panacea for all RFI ills. As a start point, it's probably worth havinging at least 3 bands (with the el-cheapo ferrites for the lower frequencies - a guess in the absence of any concrete data).

These changes have been happening too fast for me to be confident in these findings - I prefer to take my time to get used to a change before making another one. So treat this as food for thought, and I won't post any more impressions {hurrah! some shout] until it's all settled down and I can be more certain of the results.

 

[dmance]

... I have no idea why a USB cable could make such a difference.

Hello? Read the myriad posts on this topic. Different USB cables have different RFI attenuation characteristics. Different metallurgy and construction makes the cable act like a long clamp-on ferrite to varying degrees. All USB cables deliver the bits intact. How they differ is in how much analog noise they allow to pass to the DAC.
YMMV, but I've had spectacular success just piling on inexpensive ferrites. Lots of posts about which ones to get.

 

[Triode User]

My final ferrite-fi update for a while:

Farnell UK again proved themeselves as the fastest supplier - by delivering my 5 x 12mm 2.5Ghz ferrites the very next day after me ordering around 5pm. .
So at the Destination end (ISORegen) of my USB cable, I replaced 4 x 1Ghz with 4 x 2.5Ghz, and my immediate impression was that the sound was yet clearer and more impactful. But this time there was a downside: it also seemed too clear, i.e. a touch of brightness had crept back in, and that I didn't welcome.

Putting back some 1Ghz ferrites seemed to tame that brightness, bringing it back to a more balanced, natural sound.
The moral of this story is that the 2.5Ghz ferrites are not necessarily a panacea for all RFI ills. As a start point, it's probably worth havinging at least 3 bands (with the el-cheapo ferrites for the lower frequencies - a guess in the absence of any concrete data).

These changes have been happening too fast for me to be confident in these findings - I prefer to take my time to get used to a change before making another one. So treat this as food for thought, and I won't post any more impressions {hurrah! some shout] until it's all settled down and I can be more certain of the results.

But I thought idea of the the 2.5GHz ferrites was introduced by Rob Watts specifically for the BNC cable between Blu2 and Dave and because they are specifically targeted at the frequency of the noise produced by the Blu2. There was no suggestion of them being appropriate for general USB use, indeed I thought Rob had said he did not think there was any benefit to ferrites on USB cables feeding Dave (or Blu2).

Perfectly happy to be corrected if I am wrong here.

 

[marcmccalmont]

But I thought idea of the the 2.5GHz ferrites was introduced by Rob Watts specifically for the BNC cable between Blu2 and Dave and because they are specifically targeted at the frequency of the noise produced by the Blu2. There was no suggestion of them being appropriate for general USB use, indeed I thought Rob had said he did not think there was any benefit to ferrites on USB cables feeding Dave (or Blu2).

Perfectly happy to be corrected if I am wrong here.

I think you are correct but ferrites are used for general purpose rfi/emi reduction. The Clearer Audio coax that I'm enjoying have 2 ferrite rings (lower frequency) designed into them and the Tripp Lite USB cables are both well shielded and have ferrites on both ends. My HDMI cables connecting my computer to my monitor have ferrites. So I'm thinking the 2.5 ghz ferrites, as many as you can fit on the cable, for the 2 BLU2/Dave coaxes and some lower frequency ferrites on the other digital cables coming from your sources might be appropriate, season to taste on these.

 

[Deftone]

What USB cable have you guys felt a definite improvement on the Dave with? or does adding ferrites to the standard USB cable help achieve similar results?

I’ve mentioned this before but I don’t think anyone tried, this seems like it much nicer looking and tidier solution. QED reference usb with what they call
FLOATING INTERNAL FERRITE JACKET

 

[TheAttorney]

But I thought idea of the the 2.5GHz ferrites was introduced by Rob Watts specifically for the BNC cable between Blu2 and Dave and because they are specifically targeted at the frequency of the noise produced by the Blu2. There was no suggestion of them being appropriate for general USB use, indeed I thought Rob had said he did not think there was any benefit to ferrites on USB cables feeding Dave (or Blu2).
.

Yes that's correct as to what Rob has said. And I've made it clear in earlier posts that I don't have a Blu2.
But my experience in my system is that ferrites do matter for DAVE-without-Blu2. And I'm not the only one saying this. E.g, Jawed.

In particular, they've benefitted my ethernet cable, as previously reported.

When I had Blu2 on loan, I also tried 4 x 1Ghz ferrites on each stock BNC cable. And the ferrite difference on the BNC cables I noted at the time was not as significant as I'm now getting with the larger number of ferrites on my USB and ethernet cables.
I can't explain all this - I'm just reporting back what I hear. I earlier referenced Rob's post becuase I specifically heard a depth improvement when adding 2.5Ghz ferrites to my ethernet cable - before I had seen him state that 2.5Ghz is likely to improve depth. His theory was based on BluDAVE. My observations have shown (to me at least) that in my circumstance the impact of RFI goes well beyond what Blu2 may be doing.

 

[marcmccalmont]

Yes that's correct as to what Rob has said. And I've made it clear in earlier posts that I don't have a Blu2.
But my experience in my system is that ferrites do matter for DAVE-without-Blu2. And I'm not the only one saying this. E.g, Jawed.

In particular, they've benefitted my ethernet cable, as previously reported.

When I had Blu2 on loan, I also tried 4 x 1Ghz ferrites on each stock BNC cable. And the ferrite difference on the BNC cables I noted at the time was not as significant as I'm now getting with the larger number of ferrites on my USB and ethernet cables.
I can't explain all this - I'm just reporting back what I hear. I earlier referenced Rob's post becuase I specifically heard a depth improvement when adding 2.5Ghz ferrites to my ethernet cable - before I had seen him state that 2.5Ghz is likely to improve depth. His theory was based on BluDAVE. My observations have shown (to me at least) that in my circumstance the impact of RFI goes well beyond what Blu2 may be doing.

Who knows whats being radiated out of my Plasma TV and all the wall wart power supplies around the house! I'm sure it all helps

 

[dmance]

@TheAttorney
I am with you on all you are doing and hearing wrt USB ferrites. I now have 24 on my DAC end ...a combination of Wurth MHz and GHz ferrites. Can't believe it but for me this has cured all my laptop source ills.
Regarding brightness you hear with GHz ferrites ...id say the you've exposed another issue to waste time over.
(No, I don't own a DAVE but have access to a Hugo2, 2Qute, antelope zodiac and PSaudio DSJ DACs. Nothing conclusive but in comparison I'd say chord products are less affected by RFI. I hope to have an extended listening test over the holidays)

 

[rgs9200m]

Thanks Dmance, I am aware of the USB cable discussions. I just wanted to head off all the expected comments or flames I thought would be posted saying it was the placebo effect or that I was imagining things and just impressed at the fancy jacket on the cable.

 

[musicday]

My final ferrite-fi update for a while:

Farnell UK again proved themeselves as the fastest supplier - by delivering my 5 x 12mm 2.5Ghz ferrites the very next day after me ordering around 5pm. .
So at the Destination end (ISORegen) of my USB cable, I replaced 4 x 1Ghz with 4 x 2.5Ghz, and my immediate impression was that the sound was yet clearer and more impactful. But this time there was a downside: it also seemed too clear, i.e. a touch of brightness had crept back in, and that I didn't welcome.

Putting back some 1Ghz ferrites seemed to tame that brightness, bringing it back to a more balanced, natural sound.
The moral of this story is that the 2.5Ghz ferrites are not necessarily a panacea for all RFI ills. As a start point, it's probably worth havinging at least 3 bands (with the el-cheapo ferrites for the lower frequencies - a guess in the absence of any concrete data).

These changes have been happening too fast for me to be confident in these findings - I prefer to take my time to get used to a change before making another one. So treat this as food for thought, and I won't post any more impressions {hurrah! some shout] until it's all settled down and I can be more certain of the results.

Man, i have a feeling that you won't stop any time soon with your experiments
Relax and start enjoying music more and that Dave too.

 

[musicday]

Have anyone tried Pioneer Master 1 headphones with Chord Dave? Apparently this headphone take a very long time to burn in and i want to know how it sounds and how does compare to Utopia, if anyone tried/owns both.Thank you in advance.

 

[Rob Watts]

My final ferrite-fi update for a while:

Farnell UK again proved themeselves as the fastest supplier - by delivering my 5 x 12mm 2.5Ghz ferrites the very next day after me ordering around 5pm. .
So at the Destination end (ISORegen) of my USB cable, I replaced 4 x 1Ghz with 4 x 2.5Ghz, and my immediate impression was that the sound was yet clearer and more impactful. But this time there was a downside: it also seemed too clear, i.e. a touch of brightness had crept back in, and that I didn't welcome.

Putting back some 1Ghz ferrites seemed to tame that brightness, bringing it back to a more balanced, natural sound.
The moral of this story is that the 2.5Ghz ferrites are not necessarily a panacea for all RFI ills. As a start point, it's probably worth havinging at least 3 bands (with the el-cheapo ferrites for the lower frequencies - a guess in the absence of any concrete data).

These changes have been happening too fast for me to be confident in these findings - I prefer to take my time to get used to a change before making another one. So treat this as food for thought, and I won't post any more impressions {hurrah! some shout] until it's all settled down and I can be more certain of the results.

But I thought idea of the the 2.5GHz ferrites was introduced by Rob Watts specifically for the BNC cable between Blu2 and Dave and because they are specifically targeted at the frequency of the noise produced by the Blu2. There was no suggestion of them being appropriate for general USB use, indeed I thought Rob had said he did not think there was any benefit to ferrites on USB cables feeding Dave (or Blu2).

Perfectly happy to be corrected if I am wrong here.

Yes my experiments with ferrites are only on Blu 2 to Dave. I have not had any success with ferrites on the USB - they made no difference with my laptop and Blu Dave; but I suspect that different sources, with more noise, would have an effect. Also, I suspect that 300MHz to 1GHz would be more appropriate for USB.

As too which ferrite is best, then for sure the warmer, smoother or softer sounding is the more transparent, as the mechanism for changing the sound is RF noise creating noise floor modulation - and more noise modulation always sounds brighter. Moreover, it's very easy to confuse a bright sound with more transparency.

An additional mechanism for changing the sound is signal correlated RF noise being demodulated and then very subtly changing small signal amplitudes; this will then degrade depth. So for source components, look for the richer smoother sound (even if it's too warm - then adjust your system in other ways to restore tonal balance) and also go for the better perception of depth. And you may mix and match too - I use HF ferrites at Dave end, and the lower frequency ferrites towards Blu 2.

 

[TheAttorney]

Man, i have a feeling that you won't stop any time soon with your experiments
Relax and start enjoying music more and that Dave too.

As it happens, the several minutes I've spent faffing around with ferrites has been interspersed with several hours of just enjoying music .
But yes, just like any addict, it doesn't take long for an audiophile to be looking for his next "hit".

The reason I've been pursuing this topic over the last few weeks is due to the size of that "hit". Perspective time: I've occasionally come across a wonderful tweak for which I've said something like: "it's as big a difference as some DAC changes I've made". But when I "crossed the ferrite Rubicon" for about £35, I got a notably bigger hit than when I replaced my Yggy DAC with DAVE. And in the same ballpark as when I had the Blu2 on loan. Yes, really.

That doesn't mean that a bunch of ferrites is the equal of these great components - because that would be silly. But it does indicate that sometimes a weak link can severely mask the true potential of those great components. And in the digital world, I've been often surprised by what is the weakest link and by the cost of its solution. So, should I criticize DAVE for seemingly not being as isolated from upstream flaws as Rob suggests? Or should I praise DAVE for being so transparent that it readily scales up with every upstream improvement? As a glass-half-full kinda guy, I'm inclined towards the latter sentiment. It's all good.

This "hit" perspective also indicates that I'm much, much harder to please when the component is very expensive, compared to when the cost is the equivalent of loose change. Which I think is at it should be.

 

[TheAttorney]

I have not had any success with ferrites on the USB - they made no difference with my laptop and Blu Dave; but I suspect that different sources, with more noise, would have an effect..

I've often been puzzled how you can get away with a laptop directly connected to a DAC, when so many enthusiasts would consider an un-modified PC to be just about the worst possible start to getting a decent source.
Now, it could well be that me adding magic boxes like the mR, whilst undeniably improving my own laptop, have added other complications that affect the impact of ferrites etc.

One thing I do agree with though on your previous comments: running the laptop on battery is better than running off its switched p/s.

 

[Natronious]

The ProJect CD Box RS and Pro-ject power box RS Uni 1-Way is much better! Even better than my MSB CDIV it’s probably the best transport out there

I'm seriously considering this transport to pair with DAVE. This here is pretty high praise, though I had never heard of this transport (+ power supply), and have not previously owned any Pro-ject gear. There is not very much information out there on it, I wish I could read more impressions. Ultimately, I'd like a Blu, but that will take a while.

I currently have a Cyrus transport, but not the newer one. It's the CDT SE+, but it suffers from readability issues, in that many discs won't properly load, etc. They had a software update some months after I purchased the unit, which I believe addressed this, but I waited too long to act, and now they will no longer perform this update, which is terrible really. The upside to this frustration, is that they offered me a special price (dealer price) on their newest transport, which would actually put it below the cost of this Pro-Ject unit (with external power supply). I wonder if anyone has any idea which of these would do a better job? Cyrus CDT signature, vs. Pro-Ject CD box RS.

Anyone have any idea on this?

The Cambridge Audio CXC would seem to be the 'best' transport out there for cheap, but hopefully another $1000 to $1,500 would offer a considerable step up...