CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[jelt2359]

If you need a bigger sound it might be worth listening to the Wilson Benesch Geometry series although they will obviously need an amp. WB are similar to Chord in that they are engineering led and don't voice their products so they tend not to jump out and grab the ears, they just get on with the job of being transparent to the source.

I listened to quite a few speakers but where the WB's do it for me;

I can't hear the cabinet, the bass is fast and controlled and the soundstage is expansive.

The mid-range driver is directly connected to the amp with minimal crossover components for the other drivers.

Soft dome tweeters, I find that other types tend to etch or not to integrate as well.

The ACT One Evolutions seem to be a sweet spot of the range.

As for a sub, the WB Torus and amp is also well regarded.

Have you heard the WB Vertex?

 

[lovemov]

I have received the Dave today, it's loaner from my dealer, I will have several days to decide if I shall replace my current setup.
 
I only had it 2 hours now, so I need more time to listen to it. This will be amp direct to Sony Z1R compares to ZH1ES.
 
So far 2 things may become deal breaker, one is it does not play DSD256 by Audirvana or Jriver (my other DACs played ok under same environment); I read people said foobar player was fine? but I am a Mac guy...
 
But secondly, this is a major one, I have music mixed on my server PCM or DSD, but I have to manually switch on Dave between DSD and PCM mode? This is going to be very painful, especially considering the wife sometimes will listen to it as well and she will have no idea to switch.
 
 
Edited:
One small thing, when playing, the screen is on and then go dark for like half a second then on again, this was playing 44.1/16 rebook, music has no drop out...what does this mean?

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

"Speakers are not one-night-stands.
This may seem obvious, but a lot of people get struck by the gravity of a 200 pound monster (2 of them) sitting in their room that just doesn't sound right to them.
And then reality bites."

This is a point well made imo.

I would add that speaker 'setup' is critical. An average pair of speakers, setup well, will normally sound better than a good pair of speakers badly setup or mismatched with room size. Even a single driver speaker (of the sort mentioned earlier in this thread) can be badly setup, though it has to be said such a beast does simplify matters hugely. If the triangle of sound isn't Isosceles or the firing angles are not identical though then the reproduction will be compromised regardless of speaker type. Two way and three way speakers are harder to get right and the difference at say 10 feet distance with even a 64th inch error of plane alignment can be quite noticeable. 3 ways have a critical need to be balanced in parallel with each other also. One may lean left or right slightly but the other will need to mirror it exactly otherwise voices and instruments will sound unbalanced (unnaturally thin or bloated). This will also affect the dynamics. Loudspeakers are not built to the tolerances of the Egyptian Pyramids. So spirit levels provide merely a starting point. For this reason I would eschew any speaker which does not have adjustable feet. You will need them to 'dial in' your sound by ear. I tend to judge by listening to the bass because that is the most critical aspect of this particular exercise.

It is the 'plane of the speaker Aray' which you need to focus on for alignment btw, not the bottom plinth or the top of the speaker. This sounds obvious but some manufacturers will put level bubbles in places that cannot possibly tell you any meaningful information. I have even seen some £20k speakers which were completely unable to be aligned because the tweeter module was simply not built in parralel with the other drivers on one of the speaker pair.

Setup takes trial and error tests until you are happy and add to that 'your happy' may be different to mine depending how much bass you want etc. The positive here is that you can affect the sound substantially with your speakers and that is a good thing because we all have our preferences. Imo It pays to experiment. When it's right the musicality and clarity can be magical for most speakers with say a Dave front end. As with a recording studio mic though, it's not the mic so much as the efforts of person setting it up.

 

[rkt31]

@lovemov, foobar easily plays dsd256. I have checked with mojo. for such great piece of gear you can have a separate windows based transport or even an Android phone/tab with Uapp app. these are extremely minor issues considering the sq of Dave.

 

[JaZZ]

  I have received the Dave today, it's loaner from my dealer, I will have several days to decide if I shall replace my current setup.
 
I only had it 2 hours now, so I need more time to listen to it. This will be amp direct to Sony Z1R compares to ZH1ES.
 
So far 2 things may become deal breaker, one is it does not play DSD256 by Audirvana or Jriver (my other DACs played ok under same environment); I read people said foobar player was fine? but I am a Mac guy...
 
But secondly, this is a major one, I have music mixed on my server PCM or DSD, but I have to manually switch on Dave between DSD and PCM mode? This is going to be very painful, especially considering the wife sometimes will listen to it as well and she will have no idea to switch.
 
Edited:
One small thing, when playing, the screen is on and then go dark for like half a second then on again, this was playing 44.1/16 rebook, music has no drop out...what does this mean?

 
You don't need to do the switching between DSD and PCM – you can just leave it in either position, the sonic difference is barely noticeable, at least to my ears. That said, I don't play DSD recordings on a regular basis, just tested it briefly, so your mileage may vary.
 
The display goes off for a second after each manipulation (for storing the new settings), that's normal.

 

[bigfatpaulie]

  I have received the Dave today, it's loaner from my dealer, I will have several days to decide if I shall replace my current setup.
 
I only had it 2 hours now, so I need more time to listen to it. This will be amp direct to Sony Z1R compares to ZH1ES.
 
So far 2 things may become deal breaker, one is it does not play DSD256 by Audirvana or Jriver (my other DACs played ok under same environment); I read people said foobar player was fine? but I am a Mac guy...
 
But secondly, this is a major one, I have music mixed on my server PCM or DSD, but I have to manually switch on Dave between DSD and PCM mode? This is going to be very painful, especially considering the wife sometimes will listen to it as well and she will have no idea to switch.
 
 
Edited:
One small thing, when playing, the screen is on and then go dark for like half a second then on again, this was playing 44.1/16 rebook, music has no drop out...what does this mean?

 
 
1) DAVE plays DSD256 just fine.  Your players would be causing the issue (which I would imagine is fixable).  Perhaps your dealer (or Chord) can help you resolve that.
 
2) No switching required.  DAVE will adapt. 

 

[Christer]

"Speakers are not one-night-stands.
This may seem obvious, but a lot of people get struck by the gravity of a 200 pound monster (2 of them) sitting in their room that just doesn't sound right to them.
And then reality bites."

This is a point well made imo.

I would add that speaker 'setup' is critical. An average pair of speakers, setup well, will normally sound better than a good pair of speakers badly setup or mismatched with room size. Even a single driver speaker (of the sort mentioned earlier in this thread) can be badly setup, though it has to be said such a beast does simplify matters hugely. If the triangle of sound isn't equilateral or the firing angles are not identical though then the reproduction will be compromised regardless of speaker type. Two way and three way speakers are harder to get right and the difference at say 10 feet distance with even a 64th inch error of plane alignment can be quite noticeable. 3 ways have a critical need to be balanced in parallel with each other also. One may lean left or right slightly but the other will need to mirror it exactly otherwise voices and instruments will sound unbalanced (unnaturally thin or bloated). This will also affect the dynamics. Loudspeakers are not built to the tolerances of the Egyptian Pyramids. So spirit levels provide merely a starting point. For this reason I would eschew any speaker which does not have adjustable feet. You will need them to 'dial in' your sound by ear. I tend to judge by listening to the bass because that is the most critical aspect of this particular exercise.

It is the 'plane of the speaker Aray' which you need to focus on for alignment btw, not the bottom plinth or the top of the speaker. This sounds obvious but some manufacturers will put level bubbles in places that cannot possibly tell you any meaningful information. I have even seen some £20k speakers which were completely unable to be aligned because the tweeter module was simply not built in parralel with the other drivers on one of the speaker pair.

Setup takes trial and error tests until you are happy and add to that 'your happy' may be different to mine depending how much bass you want etc. The positive here is that you can affect the sound substantially with your speakers and that is a good thing because we all have our preferences. Imo It pays to experiment. When it's right the musicality and clarity can be magical for most speakers with say a Dave front end. As with a recording studio mic though, it's not the mic so much as the efforts of person setting it up.

One very  good way to check if your speakers are both phase coherent and properly set up is to try, first the test samples, and then if you like them  two albums from the mainly classical music and Grammy Award winning label Yarlung Records. On their homesite with the same name you can find some  testfiles in a newish recording  format called SONORUS which via a capable Stereo  system can deliver a more three -dimensional sound  than plain stereo from a two speaker system.
If your speakers can reproduce the testfiles correctly as with the circling tones where a a beeping tone actually circles between the speakers and back around you  in a circular way behind you, or blackbirds singing behind you, you have both  good speakers and a phase coherent system.
As you say there are many super expensive multi module speakers that are NOT phase coherent and will  not reproduce this effect.
Luckily my MF KW 550 amp and my ML electrostatic speakers can.
Unfortunately there are so far only two full albums recorded with this technique which aims to  approach the effect of real  five speaker ITU setups ie real surround as with many SACDs and other mch recordings.
The effect of hearing the circling  tone behind you from only two speakers is also a bit like listening to a binaural recording via headphones.
In fact quite amazing the first times you hear it. 
But the SONORUS effect will not work via headphones.
With music you are rewarded with a three dimensional soundstage that expands deeper both forward and back ,than plain stereo can reproduce.
The two recordings are  the contemporary composer  James Mathesson's violin concerto played by the LAPO conducted by Esa pekka Salonen recorded at a live concert  in LA.
A superb example of very listenable modern music coupled with  some of the same composer's songs for soprano accompanied by a grand piano.
Especially the songs are some of the most realistic and lifelike DXD recordings I have heard via my  stereo system.
The other just released  title, features violin sonatas by the young Sibelius.
One of those tracks is also among the test tracks.
Both titles can be downloaded as DSD downloads DSD 64, DSD 128 and DSD 256 or  in  DXD format from the download site
Native DSD.com
And if your system fails to do the job required they are also available in plain stereo and simply mic'd 5 mic setup ITU   REAL MCH.
For those striving to set up an imaging-wise  and soundstage-wise optimised two  speaker based stereo system  not to be missed imho.
Cheers Chris

 

[jelt2359]

Regarding the premature proclamation of DAVE's obsolescence, there is one thing I am hoping will happen with DAVE in the not so distant future that will further enhance its value and appeal for those those of us who own a DAVE but also for those who are looking for a DAC and are wondering if Hugo2 is good enough or whether they should spend more for DAVE.  Rob has stated in the past that DAVE is capable of being upgraded via a code update but that he would never do it unless it resulted in a significant improvement to DAVE.  Perhaps, that time is now for the following reasons:

1)  When paired with M-scaler, many of DAVE's DSP cores will now sit idle and I have wondered if these cores can be re-purposed for greater things?  Certainly, it would be ideal for DAVE users who don't plan to upgrade to M-scaler to have Hugo2's improved filters.  Some (Beolab, BMichels, and Jelt2359) have proposed filter options to tailor DAVE"s sound signature (warmer, cooler, neutral, etc) to help balance the tonal deficiencies in one's system.  dCS has such options.  

2)  Improving the SPDIF input.  As Rob has stated, SPDIF is not synchronous to DAVE's clock (only USB is) and must go through DPLL first.  Since M-scaler must use the SPDIF inputs, it would probably make some difference in SQ to make the SPDIF inputs as good as USB.

3)  Code for better remote functionality.  Rob stated that he ran out of time to properly code for DAVE's remote and so only a few of the remote's buttons actually function.  It would be great if DAVE had a fully functioning remote.

I'm sure there would be some nominal cost for such an upgrade which most of us will probably be happy to pay for.

Great points! I missed this. I agree 100%. We can't be the only ones who think so!

 

[Modwright01]

I know my question is bit crazy but do you know if the dave works in OTG plugged into an Android phone ? Just wanted to use my phone as a source ...

Second question : better to read dsd natively or in dop mode ?

Thanks.

 

[Clive101]

I know my question is bit crazy but do you know if the dave works in OTG plugged into an Android phone ? Just wanted to use my phone as a source ...

Second question : better to read dsd natively or in dop mode ?

Thanks.

I have just tested my Onkyo DPX1 runs on Android and it works however my Samsung s3 also running Android does not work with Dave with OTG cable.
 
In theory it should work maybe a driver issue...?
 
Hope that helps

 

[Modwright01]

Ok, thanks.
 
I found a OTG cable.
 
Just check with the Samsung S7 and it works.

But, something really weird :
 
I use the Dave plugged into my computer (USB) with JRIVER in bit perfect 
 
and play the same file with usb audio player pro in bitperfect with the S7 (dave connected with OTG) 
 
and the sound  from the computer is  BETTER.
 
While it is bit perfect, it could be EXACTLY the same, but it is not...Which means usb audio player is crap ?
 
Really strange.

 

[theveterans]

  Ok, thanks.
 
I found a OTG cable.
 
Just check with the Samsung S7 and it works.

But, something really weird :
 
I use the Dave plugged into my computer (USB) with JRIVER in bit perfect 
 
and play the same file with usb audio player pro in bitperfect with the S7 (dave connected with OTG) 
 
and the sound  from the computer is  BETTER.
 
While it is bit perfect, it could be EXACTLY the same, but it is not...Which means usb audio player is crap ?
 
Really strange.

 
No. It's the minute amounts of USB noise from the 4G/LTE antennas (even with Airplane mode). Also, USB power is not consistent due to "power states" with the chip which affects all of the motherboard's USB power output.

 

[x RELIC x]

Ok, thanks.

I found a OTG cable.

Just check with the Samsung S7 and it works.


But, something really weird :

I use the Dave plugged into my computer (USB) with JRIVER in bit perfect 

and play the same file with usb audio player pro in bitperfect with the S7 (dave connected with OTG) 

and the sound  from the computer is  BETTER.

While it is bit perfect, it could be EXACTLY the same, but it is not...Which means usb audio player is crap ?

Really strange.

What does better mean to you? Rob has maintained the smoother sound is the more accurate. Is the computer brighter? Seems to have more perceived soundstage?

 

[Modwright01]

Better means better resolution, better details, smoother.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Better means better resolution, better details, smoother.

Like drinking a banana smoothie with chalk in it. All of that detail.