[Kamil21]

So Kamil, Chord DAVINA will work as A/D, also as D/A converter and theoretically will replace whole DAVE functionality?

My understanding is only from what I have read in these forums and that Davina is fundamentally an A/D converter.
It is also my understanding that the USB port will handle both receiving and transmission of digital music with a computer.

This does not necessarily mean that Davina has a D/A function, but certainly it should have a D to D function. Unless Chord decides to include some D/A function into Davina as an afterthought (for headphone or other monitoring, say), I would think that this would still be handled and done best by Dave.. After all, one is male, and the other female

 

[miketlse]

My understanding is only from what I have read in these forums and that Davina is fundamentally an A/D converter.
It is also my understanding that the USB port will handle both receiving and transmission of digital music with a computer.

This does not necessarily mean that Davina has a D/A function, but certainly it should have a D to D function. Unless Chord decides to include some D/A function into Davina as an afterthought (for headphone or other monitoring, say), I would think that this would still be handled and done best by Dave.. After all, one is male, and the other female

 
There are several posts that explain the chord proposed product strategy:
 
Use the start point of the M-Scalar technology which chord have recently announced
 

1. the initial implementation of M-Scalar is within the Blu 2, to enhance the RBCD output using 500k taps, which is then fed to the DAVE to complete the overall 1M taps processing
2. the next implementation will be the Davina, which will include M-Scalar, plus ADC, plus maybe other functionality which DAVE owners have recently requested. Again the 500k taps output will be fed to the DAVE to achieve 1M taps overall
3. There have been a lot of requests for a third implementation of M-Scalar, but without the ADC (effectively a Davina-lite). I think this product is still at a concept design stage, with many requests for functionality from DAVE owners, so it is too early to state what the final product will look like.   

 
Overall the next 18 months promise some exciting new products.
Much of this M-Scalar and Davina technology was at the pure R&D stage just a few months ago, and is being rushed into physical products as fast as possible.

 

[Weatherlight]

What I would like is a new and updated choral line streamer, perhaps a CodeX 2, with a diagonal-rectangular screen á la DAVE... or just a dedicated streamer.

and a server with user upgradable storage (SSD or M.2 NVMe), SD card slot at the front.

Stacks, uh boy... drool worthy

 

[Clive101]

  My tests were with headphones only - and that was done simply to see if Dave - on it's own - was sensitive. With loudspeakers, you have a pre-amp (preferably not!) and a power amp. These devices are sensitive to RF noise, and its conceivable that RF noise from the USB cable would change the SQ of these. But in these cases you are not hearing the USB with Dave. Moreover, it's possible that different sources may react differently to the RF character of the USB cable. Note also that initially I did hear a difference with USB cables - but it was not consistent - but then I noticed that the cable was close to the headphone cable. When I separated the headphone cable from the USB cable, then the differences disappeared.   
 
So YMWV on this; but I maintain that the USB cable is not something to worry about with Dave.
 
Rob

Thank for the advice re the RF, I will test with headphones making sure of the headphone cable is away from the USB cable.

 

[Rob Watts]

 

....... With loudspeakers, you have a pre-amp (preferably not!) and a power amp. ..........  
Rob

 
Rob, I have valve power amps and I have consistently found that the sound is seriously degraded by trying to take the output from a Hugo, HugoTT or Dave direct into the power amp. As a result I use a Music First TVC preamp between your DACs and the valve power amps. Maybe its an impedance thing with the valve amps as opposed to a solid state amp. I know that you have always been consistent in your view that you prefer those DACs going direct into the power amp but I wondered if you have ever tried a valve power amp with them? I use the Icon Audio MB845Mk2 monos.
 
(By the way I have just ordered a Dave after trialing it against my current DAC).

Yes I have heard this opinion expressed once or twice before and I suspect it may be some kind of euphonic distortion. But every time I have heard Dave drive valve power-amps direct, it has sounded superb - smooth and refined, with cavernous sound-stage. I guess I have done this about half a dozen times with differing valve power amps. 
 
Whenever I have tried pre-amp in or out, it has always been much more transparent, with the sound being brighter due to the better transparency - and no hint of hardness or aggression. But again YMWV... And I can't comment on all the power amps out there. I know it is technically possible for power amps that have poor stability margins to go unstable with a low source impedance - and if you find it does not work for you then try the balanced outputs, as these are 33 ohm outputs. That said, I think it is very unlikely - and normally it is a high output impedance from the pre-amp or DAC that creates stability problems.
 
Rob

 

[Triode User]

  Yes I have heard this opinion expressed once or twice before and I suspect it may be some kind of euphonic distortion. But every time I have heard Dave drive valve power-amps direct, it has sounded superb - smooth and refined, with cavernous sound-stage. I guess I have done this about half a dozen times with differing valve power amps. 
 
Whenever I have tried pre-amp in or out, it has always been much more transparent, with the sound being brighter due to the better transparency - and no hint of hardness or aggression. But again YMWV... And I can't comment on all the power amps out there. I know it is technically possible for power amps that have poor stability margins to go unstable with a low source impedance - and if you find it does not work for you then try the balanced outputs, as these are 33 ohm outputs. That said, I think it is very unlikely - and normally it is a high output impedance from the pre-amp or DAC that creates stability problems.
 
Rob

Rob
 
Thanks for the time replying. My two amps I have tried are Icon Audio 845 amps that I mentioned earlier and some vintage Audio Innovations Second Audio (2A3) monobloc valve amps. Both sounded pretty good fed direct by the Dave but become jaw droppingly good when the transformer based Music First pre amp is used between the Dave and the power amps. I am no techie so I have no idea what causes it but I have a solution and already have the pre amp so everyone is happy, no not happy - that is the wrong expression, over awed with the sound would better describe it.
 
I thought it would be a good idea just to mention it in case someone tries the Dave direct into their valve amp and isn't totally impressed and perhaps they can try a preamp and see if that reveals all the Dave's strengths.
 
Nick

 

[krumley7882]

Wow---"Hugo 2 is the closest thing to a mini DAVE"~J

 

[Mojo ideas]

So Kamil, Chord DAVINA will work as A/D, also as D/A converter and theoretically will replace whole DAVE functionality?

The Davina is only one development program that Rob is working on. It may not become a product for a year or even far more. It really should not have been so loudly trumpeted. Because really when talked about it was mostly theory and speculation that still had to be designed built, tested and thoroughly proved. We at Chord would prefer that only products that are fully developed are discussed but we do understand that having a good sounding board like HeadFi is a very valuable asset that informs our design process

 

[iDesign]

...It really should not have been so loudly trumpeted. Because really when talked about it was mostly theory and speculation that still had to be designed built, tested and thoroughly proved. We at Chord would prefer that only products that are fully developed are discussed...

Coincidentally Rob's posts about forthcoming products like the Davina influenced my decision to purchase products from Chord far more than any traditional marketing efforts or ads.

 

[miketlse]

The Davina is only one development program that Rob is working on. It may not become a product for a year or even far more. It really should not have been so loudly trumpeted. Because really when talked about it was mostly theory and speculation that still had to be designed built, tested and thoroughly proved. We at Chord would prefer that only products that are fully developed are discussed but we do understand that having a good sounding board like HeadFi is a very valuable asset that informs our design process

This encapsulates the conflict between two approaches to product design:

1. pure technology led, where you design around new technology, then only let the potential customers view the pre-production prototype results at CES - unfortunately this leaves you wide open to discovering that your customers wanted a different product (eg the SD card reader, and usb inputs), leading to much rework of the design
2. the 'systems engineering' led approach, where you involve customers in 'focus groups' during the initial concept design stages, and ensure that the prototypes shown at CES include customer needs. This helps to avoid late rework to product designs.

 
I think chord are falling a bit in the middle of those approaches at the moment. I would happily be part of a 'focus group', and i suspect that there would be many other volunteers on HeadFi.

 

[Mojo ideas]

This encapsulates the conflict between two approaches to product design:

• pure technology led, where you design around new technology, then only let the potential customers view the pre-production prototype results at CES - unfortunately this leaves you wide open to discovering that your customers wanted a different product (eg the SD card reader, and usb inputs), leading to much rework of the design
• the 'systems engineering' led approach, where you involve customers in 'focus groups' during the initial concept design stages, and ensure that the prototypes shown at CES include customer needs. This helps to avoid late rework to product designs.

I think chord are falling a bit in the middle of those approaches at the moment. I would happily be part of a 'focus group', and i suspect that there would be many other volunteers on HeadFi.

Its not a perfect process, I agree however we have moved on the state of the art especially in the mobile products. A more stayed and controlled marketing led approach may have led us to develop products that were only the equal of what was already being sold. So I'm satisfied our design led appoach is the right one for us. Noting that each product we develop illuminates and leads us on to the next one

 

[jelt2359]

My take on this is that we must understand that Blu2 transport is only an interim demonstration of the MScaler in a cd transport. The real product is going to be Davina as it will have both USB in and out functions, and that is what we should all be waiting for if we want the bells and whistles. Of course, for those who can't wait, get the Blu2 first!

I disagree. The davina is an ADC primarily, meant for Rob and Chord to test just how good music can get when they control the entire chain; whereas the Blu2 is a CDP primarily- meant for use as a digital transport. Both are "real products". For an audiophile primarily interested in playing music, the Blu2 is more useful, although many of us on this thread have spent months looking at the microRendu, sms-200, rednet etc and at this point are 100% in on network audio. This is why most of us only need the M scaling component of either product.

However you have a point about USB out. It has been stated here multiple times that the only way for a Chord Dave owner to get maximum mileage out of the Blu2 would be to use the dual BNC DX inputs. I'm not sure if that's a technical limitation on the USB input of the Dave (or at least the way it was designed) or because it just so happens that the Blu2 does not have USB outputs. Would be interesting for Rob to clarify.

Personally I'm really psyched for the upcoming firmware update. Would be curious to hear if running the Mojo filter on my Dave means that I no longer have to use an external amp for a warmer tone that suits my preferences. Also wondering how good my Rednet with BNC output can get now that with the Blu2 the BNC inputs on the Dave will probably be upgraded to be just as good as USB. Finally I personally prefer the HF Fil mode ON even with redbook, and I've read that it actually should not sound different with these types of source files, with a newer algorithm in the Hugo2 having fixed this.

Given all this, I'm probably just as- if not more so- excited about the firmware improvements. We all know a lot of the magic here is in Rob's code, and if he's found a way to make that even better then wow.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Has this firmware update been verified to happen or are we just wishful thinking?

 

[x RELIC x]

Yeah, I've never heard mention of any firmware updates. Rob has repeatedly said that there are no user firmware updates and that only if there is a significant audible improvement that there will be an option to have the unit updated by an authorized Chord dealer. So far I've read nothing about this for the DAVE in any of the Chord threads, unless I've grossly overlooked some posts, or there is some insider / undisclosed / outside information here.

What's the Mojo filter on the DAVE, never heard that one either? References?

 

[GryphonGuy]

It is rather sad that some people believe a claim from hearsay overpowers factual observations.
 
It would seem that wild speculation and hearsay evidence is the only way some people feel they can contribute. If I have nothing I can factually contribute then I stay quiet which is why my post count is so low. I do enjoy the writings of the forum members who clearly have greater experience and knowledge than I do.
 
Cheers
GG