CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[DaveRedRef-III]

rkt31
I think DSD resolution and dynamics are good. Presentation and imaging sound good to me also when done well but I gave up on DSD/SACD because it didn't move me in the same way real music moves me. 

 

[Rob Watts]

  Rob
I have noticed comments from early listeners of Dave that 'dynamics' and 'speed' of the DAC are pretty exceptional. I am interested in this aspect of the dac and just wanted to understand what is driving this improvement.
 
Firstly I would say that I am still fundamentally tied to CD rendition these days so any dynamic improvement here would of course be welcomed. I just wondered if the digital pre-amp is a primary contributor for improved dynamics or if there is some magic been worked elsewhere in the DAC?

In a word - timing.
 
The unexpected SQ benefit with Hugo was the perception of timing - I could hear the starting and stopping of notes with unusual ease - and I did not know where this performance was coming from. Anyway, with Dave I had time and a much bigger FPGA (ten times more gates) so I could find out and isolate what I had done. It turned out to be timing accuracy - now I am WTA FIR filtering to 256 FS, so that means the timing of the original analogue signal is being FIR reconstructed to 88 nS accuracy now, and this gave surprisingly large differences to SQ. Now when timing accuracy is improved, you can hear the starting and stopping of sounds with ease - and that makes it sound sharp and fast - its a bit like focus on a camera - out of focus gives a soft perspective, sharper focus brings out edges.
 
Does this mean Dave is sharp and fast sounding? No - I had improved the warmth and smoothness dramatically. Indeed, before upgrading the timing, I was worried it was way too smooth and dark, but improving the timing has brought it back into subjective balance.
 
But for me the most profound change has been depth perception. Dave's depth is completely unusual, and now with the appropriate recording, I am starting to hear depth that sounds more like real life. And the depth perception was down to the noise shapers on Dave.
 
Both with timing and depth, Dave has taught me that the brain is incredibly sensitive to vanishingly small errors - indeed in some respects absolute zero error is the target.
 
Rob 

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

I hope you are making a list of impressive 'depth' recordings Rob. This ability will undoubtably be a party piece for many audiophiles.
 
Thanks very much for the feedback. I cannot wait to hear DAVE in action tbh.

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

rky31
I am not aiming this at you btw but it puzzles me why so much focus (by those audiophiles who prefer DSD) is devoted to native DSD file conversion in our DAC's when less than 1% of all DSD recordings available are actually pure/native DSD masters in the first place.
 
DSD is simply a dumb protocol in that all you can do with it is record. You cannot EQ it or do any post production work without transferring it to PCM. So you have to 1) covert to PCM, 2) make your PP changes to the sound in PCM and 3) convert the file back to DSD. 99% of everybody's DSD music collection has been bastardised in this way and (as Rob Watts will attest to I am sure), even 'pro converters' are still in the dark ages right now. Those conversions will not do anything to help DSD fidelity. 
 
The current protocol for post production is DXD (PCM based). DXD is 352.8/24 (also 32bit on occasion). Why 352.8? because it is divisible by 44.1 khz. It is worth bearing in mind too that 96 and 192 khz downloads may have serious quantisation errors (If taken from a DXD master). 
 
I think it would be helpful for the industry to simplify things and run with DXD as the only standard for digital mastering. They should drop 96 and 192 also, unless it is for film tracks. This would save costs on recording, mixing, post production, mastering, HiFi R&D, manufacturing etc. 
 
The head of Linn asked the question last year 'Why bother with DSD? Times have moved on.' He was just stating the obvious. We no longer need DSD. It is no longer the highest resolution protocol. DXD allows post production without conversion and thus avoids DSD's obligatory loss of fidelity and DXD already has superior resolution to boot. The more I see trends like that observed in my earlier post regarding DCS the better imo.

 

[Beolab]

@Rob Watts

Matthew told me that Hugo got 5 volt output for the headphones, and DAVE will have 6 volts output!

I like the sound from the Hugo today connected with my beloved 46Ohms / 85db JPS Labs Abyss headphones, but it is a little thin and you can not play so dynamic music on higher volume because it breake up sound , so if i order the DAVE will i be more satisfayed do you think ?

I have discovered and tried out many amps, but the clearest sound is straight from the Hugo without any pre / power - amps in btw

What is your estimation, can it give a richer and more visceral sound?

 

[rkt31]

digital volume control of Hugo may be better than many other such volume control in other DACs /amp but still IMHO Hugo and may be Dave too should benefit with higher impedance headphones like Beyer dt800 600 ohm and Beyer t1 600 ohm.

 

[Rob Watts]

Dave is actually 6.75 V RMS at 1% THD - we quoted 6 V as I knew it would exceed that figure, and it has.
 
I have not tried the Abyss on Dave, but Dave is a massive (in my opinion of course) change over Hugo. So I strongly recommend you give Dave a demo with your Abyss to find out.
 
I am now very close to releasing production code now, so the wait will not be long!
 
Rob
 

@Rob Watts

Matthew told me that Hugo got 5 volt output for the headphones, and DAVE will have 6 volts output!

I like the sound from the Hugo today connected with my beloved 46Ohms / 85db JPS Labs Abyss headphones, but it is a little thin and you can not play so dynamic music on higher volume because it breake up sound , so if i order the DAVE will i be more satisfayed do you think ?

I have discovered and tried out many amps, but the clearest sound is straight from the Hugo without any pre / power - amps in btw

What is your estimation, can it give a richer and more visceral sound?

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Rob
Will you let us know when you have released the production code?

That would be most helpful

 

[Beolab]

Dave is actually 6.75 V RMS at 1% THD - we quoted 6 V as I knew it would exceed that figure, and it has.

I have not tried the Abyss on Dave, but Dave is a massive (in my opinion of course) change over Hugo. So I strongly recommend you give Dave a demo with your Abyss to find out.

I am now very close to releasing production code now, so the wait will not be long!

Rob

Thanks Rob for your fast and informative answer as always!

If you convert 6,75 volt to Watts it is like
3 watts or ?

I dont think i have the possibility to try first and then place the order sadly, i have to order it first to try it out here in Sweden.

Yes the Abyss are a magna planar type which is a little harder to drive properly, so thats why my concern, but probably it will drive it perfectly i hope.

 

[Rob Watts]

Yes will do. One thing left to do then production release!
 
Rob

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Have to stay out of those hotel bars Rob. We need this thing released so we can make our purchases!

 

[bmichels]

I have put ALL my purchase of DAC & Headphone Amp on hold until I can test the DAVE. My TotalDAC & BHSE purchase has been stopped until I hear the DAVE.   I just hope that :
 
- It will be able to drive direct (from it's own headphone output) my newly purchased HE1000 to it's FULL POTENTIAL
 
- The DAVE will not just improve on the sound signature of my HUGO that is very detailed & precise BUT lack some musicality & saoul (IMO). I hope something really more engaging, something that make my feets tapping.  We do not need to hear much-much more details, we need to hear ... music, saoul, feelings

 

[Beolab]

Request

Can someone that is a PS pro convert the Silver DAVE into a Black edition DAVE so we see whats looks best ?

 

[wisnon]

http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/11/13/warsaw-2015-dac-ology/
 
Small blurb.
 

 

[Beolab]

Question for @Rob Watts

Placed an order on a Black DAVE today!

And my question is if it will be possible or not to use a Iphone connected through CCK adapter and a UpTone Regen usb with 9 volt output, or is it impossible?

I will most of the time use a Aralic Aries for streaming but some times i like to connect the phone also.