[Beolab]

I said many times before. It's a bliss if one finds diff cable does not change the sound. And or one's home does not need AC filter what so ever. End result is one will save tons of money.

 
And the cable makers are going bankrupt =)
 
If you looking at the Professional studio side, i haven't seen any High End power cables connected direct to the mains, they are using in some High End studios PowerPlants think Taurus or Medical Certified Plants for example here in Sweden. 

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

I said many times before. It's a bliss if one finds diff cable does not change the sound. And or one's home does not need AC filter what so ever. End result is one will save tons of money.

totally agree Mavwong.
 
Beolab
Scientists claimed there was no way people could hear the difference between 44.1k and 192k but they were looking in the wrong place. it was people in the industry like Bob Stuart who showed why it 'did' make a difference. Some cables do make a difference Beolab. That has been my experience but I do not know why they make a difference. Now, if it were eventually proved that it was simply the cable 'connections' that created the musical and/or sound difference between one cable and another then wouldn't that make your point about the pre-existing length of power cable moot? I am not having a pop. Just saying that we don't know the reason but many of us can hear a clear difference.
 
I do use a Syncro Evo3 btw and I must say I am very pleased with the results. I suspect my old house has excessive hum in the system.

 

[rkt31]

some power cable rejects emi and rfi better and even that difference in the extent of rejection may also change the sound. i won't say the change will always be better. for some lack of noise due to high rejection of emi and rfi may be perceived as loss of dynamics, if they are not accustomed or conditioned to that extra lack of noise. I recently put on snap on ferrite cores on mains power cable, power cable of blu Ray player and also put two audioquest jitterbugs in the USB inputs of blu Ray player. there is so much improvement in noise area that initially I thought what happened to the Treble. it seemed that Treble lost all of it's bite . but after few days I realized that in fact the dynamics have improved instead of initial impression of less dynamics. now due to blacker and calmer background the sounds seem to emanate more freely and suddenly. now there is more reserve dynamic power that way.

 

[Articnoise]

I agree with rkt31.

 

A good audio grade power cord do not only transfer the power from the grid to the PSU. It filtering (skin-filtering) it from electromagnetic pollution and HF noise that’s comes both from the grid and from the air around us. Think about all the signals we have around us coming from: routers, mobile phones, TV, microwaves, refrigerators, and radio signals and so on. With gear with more bandwidths and more transmissions, more EM noise can infiltrates our audio gear, sneaking in through the power line. In reality the distortion in a typical home can be quite high and has to be measured in percent. This pollution can causes distortion that significantly degrading SQ. True is that some audio gear are much more sensitive to “pure power” than others. Some audio gear also have “better filters” built in to their PSUs and a design that making them almost immune. 

 

[Beolab]

I can assure you that if we have dune blind folded A / B test at your own home, you couldent here which power cabe that was plugged in, its just a big placebo.

And yes Syncro and power regenerators can give benefit, but not a ordinary power cable without filtration connected directly to the AC outlet. The ordinary HighEnd power cables with screening can not filter out the RFI that is injected from the mains, its just screening the RFI in the air/room you must weigh in to the function of it. Some clame that it does but it is impossible, because many of the smaller cable makers do not have any education in electronics, the just produce a exotic cable and claim whatever they want , because it cant be measured, so how can they know it will reject injected RFI, it impossible.

The transormers today are much better and does not leak as they did in the fifties, so if you are speaking to a developer it does not have any purpose with it.
It just looks good on a event and all cable companies call them and ask if they could be their co-sponsor at the High-End event just for the advertising potential.

But keep feeding the retired Vaccum cleaning cable companies, its your choice.

Im a reseller of AudioQuest, NordOst, Van Den Hul , Chord Company and i have tested them all. No point. Its more your imagination that it should be better.

And thats another good question why does it always have to sound better with a cable for $$$ than a $18.99 one from WallMart HiFi , sometimes the cheeper cable may be a more appropriate than the more expensive one.

Please do some reading about electronics than HiFi for a while and you will come back with different eyes on some "High End snake oil bluffs" in the business trust me.

We rest this discussion for now!

 

[lovethatsound]

Ok guys let's get back to real subject here (DAVE) Their are NO reviews of chords Dave yet as far as i know.The folks out their want to know if Dave is worth the money or not.

 

[Beolab]

Ok guys let's get back to real subject here (DAVE) Their are NO reviews of chords Dave yet as far as i know.The folks out their want to know if Dave is worth the money or not.

Yes where is the reviews @Rob Watts & Matt at @Chord Electronics ?

 

[Kakki]

Rob, today, I had a lucky chance to try Dave with Klimax Twin power amp and B&W 805 Diamond. It sounded really nice...!! (Thanks Hiyono for your kindness to bring over your Dave.)
 
I have 2 questions about the Dave usage as follows based on today's experience.
 
1. Is there any issues driving efficient speakers using the RCA outputs of Dave? I today tried to drive 805 Diamond directly using the RCA outputs from Dave and it could drive the speakers very well. I read your warning not to drive headphones directly using the XLR outputs but what is the case with RCA outputs driving speakers / headphones? My assumption is that if the RCA outputs are identical to the headphone outs, there will no issues but would like to make a confirmation.
 
2. When we tried Dave, we used it at around -20db volume but sometimes we needed to increase the volume to 0db or even +3db. Does +3db mean the digital volume in Dave is doing scaling up of the original signal? Is there any recommendation for appropriate volume range when using Dave?
 
I felt that there were pros and cons when using Dave with an usual power amp and using it to directly drive speakers and would look forward trying it paired with your digital power amplifiers.

 

[Mython]

  Rob, today, I had a lucky chance to try Dave with Klimax Twin power amp and B&W 805 Diamond. It sounded really nice...!! (Thanks Hiyono for your kindness to bring over your Dave.)
 
I have 2 questions about the Dave usage as follows based on today's experience.
 
1. Is there any issues driving efficient speakers using the RCA outputs of Dave? I today tried to drive 805 Diamond directly using the RCA outputs from Dave and it could drive the speakers very well. I read your warning not to drive headphones directly using the XLR outputs but what is the case with RCA outputs driving speakers / headphones? My assumption is that if the RCA outputs are identical to the headphone outs, there will no issues but would like to make a confirmation.
 
2. When we tried Dave, we used it at around -20db volume but sometimes we needed to increase the volume to 0db or even +3db. Does +3db mean the digital volume in Dave is doing scaling up of the original signal? Is there any recommendation for appropriate volume range when using Dave?
 
I felt that there were pros and cons when using Dave with an usual power amp and using it to directly drive speakers and would look forward trying it paired with your digital power amplifiers.

 
 
The following is partially relevant, but I'm sure Rob will provide more in-depth reply to your questions:
 

 

If DAVE is like Hugo TT, then max output from DAVE will be >0dB, i.e. music recorded with 0dB peaks will clip.

TT has about +17dB maximum gain, so the input shouldn't exceed -17dB if you want to run TT at maximum volume. DAVE is probably similar.

I have actually embedded an overload margin with Dave - that's why its 20 elements rather than 16 - so data over 0dB will be reproduced with very low distortion. So -3dB is 3v RMS, +3dB is 6v RMS and at this point it is perfectly linear. You need to go to +4dB when clipping will just be about to start. In practice, this means if the control is +4dB or less, Dave won't clip at all. This assumes loads of 33 ohms or easier.
 
Rob

 

[ecwl]

Rob, today, I had a lucky chance to try Dave with Klimax Twin power amp and B&W 805 Diamond. It sounded really nice...!! (Thanks Hiyono for your kindness to bring over your Dave.)

I have 2 questions about the Dave usage as follows based on today's experience.

1. Is there any issues driving efficient speakers using the RCA outputs of Dave? I today tried to drive 805 Diamond directly using the RCA outputs from Dave and it could drive the speakers very well. I read your warning not to drive headphones directly using the XLR outputs but what is the case with RCA outputs driving speakers / headphones? My assumption is that if the RCA outputs are identical to the headphone outs, there will no issues but would like to make a confirmation.

2. When we tried Dave, we used it at around -20db volume but sometimes we needed to increase the volume to 0db or even +3db. Does +3db mean the digital volume in Dave is doing scaling up of the original signal? Is there any recommendation for appropriate volume range when using Dave?

I felt that there were pros and cons when using Dave with an usual power amp and using it to directly drive speakers and would look forward trying it paired with your digital power amplifiers.

According to the Chord DAVE manual, +3dB is full power (3V for unbalanced). But what doesn't make sense is that the Klimax Twin has 100wpc, 22/28dB gain and B&W 805D are very sensitive speakers. So I have no idea how you can listen at full DAC output. It's a bit unusual unless you have a humongous room. Are you sure you're feeding bit-perfect signals into the DAC? Or did you also have software volume attenuation on the computer? The DAC is not going to perform at its best unless it gets the bit-perfect signal and does the volume attenuation internally...

 

[JaZZ]

According to the Chord DAVE manual, +3dB is full power (3V for unbalanced). But what doesn't make sense is that the Klimax Twin has 100wpc, 22/28dB gain and B&W 805D are very sensitive speakers. So I have no idea how you can listen at full DAC output. It's a bit unusual unless you have a humongous room. Are you sure you're feeding bit-perfect signals into the DAC? Or did you also have software volume attenuation on the computer? The DAC is not going to perform at its best unless it gets the bit-perfect signal and does the volume attenuation internally...

 
+3 dB means 6 volts.
 

I have actually embedded an overload margin with Dave - that's why its 20 elements rather than 16 - so data over 0dB will be reproduced with very low distortion. So -3dB is 3v RMS, +3dB is 6v RMS

 
 
But yes, I wonder about Kakki's high gain as well.

 

[StryGR]

Wrong, This is voltage not power.
 
If 0 dB = 3 V, then +3 dB = 4.5 V!
 
For 6 V, gain should be +6 dB.

 

[JaZZ]

  Wrong, This is voltage not power.
 
If 0 dB = 3 V, then +3 dB = 4.5 V!
 
For 6 V, gain should be +6 dB.

 
Huuhh!? – Rob Watts doesn't know what he's talking about?

 
 
Your basic error: it's not «0 dB» corresponding to 3 V, but –3 dB.

 

[Kakki]

When I said around -20db, that was with Klimax twin. When I said up to 0db or even +3db, that was when Dave directly driving 805 speakers.
Apologies for making confusion!!

 

[romaz]

  Wrong, This is voltage not power.
 
If 0 dB = 3 V, then +3 dB = 4.5 V!
 
For 6 V, gain should be +6 dB.

Rob just answered this question 5 days ago in post #1291.  This is what he said:
 
"I have actually embedded an overload margin with Dave - that's why its 20 elements rather than 16 - so data over 0dB will be reproduced with very low distortion. So -3dB is 3v RMS, +3dB is 6v RMS and at this point it is perfectly linear. You need to go to +4dB when clipping will just be about to start. In practice, this means if the control is +4dB or less, Dave won't clip at all. This assumes loads of 33 ohms or easier.
 
Rob"
 
Based on his statement above, it would not be wise to drive speakers directly with the DAVE.  First of all, at a sensitivity of 88dB SPL, I would not consider these B&Ws sensitive at all.  B&W recommends an amplifier that puts out a minimum of 50 watts for this speaker.  You can buy single-driver crossover-less speakers with a sensitivity of >100dB SPL that can be driven dynamically with 1 watt and so that's what I would call a sensitive speaker but the problem is not sensitivity but rather impedance and in the case of the DAVE, with the 8 ohm load of your speakers (which applies to most speakers), you have serious impedance mismatch.  You'll clip the DAVE all day long.  In Rob's statement above, Rob talks about driving loads 33 ohms or easier (meaning >33 ohms and not <33 ohms) but this is through the headphone port, not the RCAs or XLRs in the back.  According to the DAVE manual, the RCA/XLR outputs in the back can "drive down to a 50 ohm load."