[JaZZ]

It really bothers me a lot, in the past I suggested a firmware upgrade to correct this, most people took Chords side "no firmware changes" criticizing me for the suggestion! Wow a $10,000 dollar flag ship product and no firmware revision to correct a menu

It would mean you can't use crossfeed for electrostats and headphones that need an extra amp – hence a bad move. As it is now, you have all possibilities, just to take care not to have crossfeed engaged with speakers – a luxury problem.

 

[marcmccalmont]

It would mean you can't use crossfeed for electrostats and headphones that need an extra amp – hence a bad move. As it is now, you have all possibilities, just to take care not to have crossfeed engaged with speakers – a luxury problem.

I didn't propose removing the function when not in headphone mode, but allowing it to be displayed and switched in both modes

 

[JaZZ]

Sorry for misinterpreting! Now that would be an improvement – but not worth the effort of a firmware upgrade in my book – since you would have to send your unit in.

 

[TheAttorney]

I didn't propose removing the function when not in headphone mode, but allowing it to be displayed and switched in both modes

Exactly!

Regarding S/W updates, PS Audio design their products such that customers can download updates with no fuss. And updates are regularly available.
I think Chord took the "right first time" approach, so no provisions were made for easy s/w update, so I'm not expecting anything here any time soon.

So I'll get my vote in early for DAVE 2 (sometime in the next decade or two) so that they can get it right first time:

An even bigger, OLED (wide viewing angles), higher resolution, touch screen.
That has all the functions displayed all of the time.
And each function can be changed directly by touching it, so no need to scroll around highlighting things that then time out.

So the only physical control remaining would for volume (nice to have that physical even if it duplicates a touch screen volume control).
And a user downoadable s/w update process - because, after years of managing s/w developements, I can confidently say that nobody has ever, ever, ever got everything right first time.

This will increase the costs considerably I suspect, but user satisfaction and pride of ownership would go through the roof.

Edit: I suppose most of the display wish list could be accomplished by a smartphone app etc

 

[iDesign]

When I read what you wrote I instantly thought of Schiit. They offer upgrades from their Bifrost line to the Yggdrasil.

Upgrades are less expensive than a whole new box and stuff doesn't get thrown out.

However, there is a problem....

You are stuck with the same plain looking aluminum box. You essentially have to use the same design and work around the limitations of that design in order to please your customers.

This means that the aesthetic and layout of the product would have to be the same. Look at what they did with the Hugo. They completely redesigned it.

They Improved its aesthetic, sound quality, and functionality. It's a fresh new design that people will get excited about.

I remember saying exactly this as far back as 2016:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-204#post-12595599

 

[llamaluv]

Seems like all the manufacturers are going more-and-more integrated, so I wouldn't be surprised if the next Chord flagship DAC had network streaming built-in. Just a thought.

 

[ray-dude]

That would be nice if they could pull it off, but I take a contrary view. Chord has shown how difficult it is to do software with the Poly (and 2Go), and they are clearly still very very far from the standard that Rob has set on the FPGA and HQ sides.

When there is a successor to DAVE, I hope it reflects every atom of Rob's considerable talents in designing the ultimate DAC, and is not held back for what could be years for work on the software and network side. Connecting a $500 NUC running Euphony to anything that Rob designs will be light years better than anything Chord is able to do on an integrated unit.

As an aside, I suspect the path for summit fi DAC's will be more separates (DAC unit, upsampler unit (mScaler), power supply, reference clock, streamer end point), each pushed to the very limit of quality. We're already more than half way there with DAVE and mScaler and a premium streamer box like the Innous, and folks are DIY pushing it farther still. Of these pieces, the streamer is the piece that is cheapest/most off the shelf, and the one where technologies change the fastest (every 12 months or so). I don't think most folks would be happy dropping $50k on a flagship, and having the streamer component already out of date a year on the day they purchase it.

All that being said, it is very very easy with today's DAVE to be pushing a $30-40k digital chain, so the market is certainly there for that level of summit fi at the flagship level. I'm sure has their eye on that market. Can't wait to see what sonic miracles Rob is able to conjure with a "BOM be damned!" design remit!

 

[iDesign]

Seems like all the manufacturers are going more-and-more integrated, so I wouldn't be surprised if the next Chord flagship DAC had network streaming built-in. Just a thought.

And I’m not sure it represents progress when you consider the problems and compatibility issues companies have had with integrating network streaming (e.g. Poly, dCS Moasic, etc, etc.). I would prefer Chord continue to offer more focused devices with adequate i/o so they are less susceptible to becoming instantly obsolete.

 

[llamaluv]

Seems like audio manufacturers so often prove to be in over their heads when they cake on extra digital features (Speaking of which, weren't we just talking about how the Chord DACs have no firmware upgrade path ). I'm also not a fan of the "let's integrate everything" approach. So yea, hopefully, their next flagship DAC won't take (increasingly popular?) route of adding unwanted or poorly executed "features" to justify markup.

 

[audio_1]

And I’m not sure it represents progress when you consider the problems and compatibility issues companies have had with integrating network streaming (e.g. Poly, dCS Moasic, etc, etc.). I would prefer Chord continue to offer more focused devices with adequate i/o so they are less susceptible to becoming instantly obsolete.

I agree, hopefully Chord will incorporate an optical interface between the Dave 2 and the Choral Mscaler. Fibre as widely used in computer networks surely wouldn't be much more expensive to implement than properly designed dual BNC connections. These will always be a comprise. The Opto-DX has been a fantastic addition to my system. It allowed me use a laptop as a high quality streamer. An external upgraded power supply would be a good option. The clock should be internal and as close to the DAC as possible.

 

[miketlse]

That would be nice if they could pull it off, but I take a contrary view. Chord has shown how difficult it is to do software with the Poly (and 2Go), and they are clearly still very very far from the standard that Rob has set on the FPGA and HQ sides.

When there is a successor to DAVE, I hope it reflects every atom of Rob's considerable talents in designing the ultimate DAC, and is not held back for what could be years for work on the software and network side. Connecting a $500 NUC running Euphony to anything that Rob designs will be light years better than anything Chord is able to do on an integrated unit.

As an aside, I suspect the path for summit fi DAC's will be more separates (DAC unit, upsampler unit (mScaler), power supply, reference clock, streamer end point), each pushed to the very limit of quality. We're already more than half way there with DAVE and mScaler and a premium streamer box like the Innous, and folks are DIY pushing it farther still. Of these pieces, the streamer is the piece that is cheapest/most off the shelf, and the one where technologies change the fastest (every 12 months or so). I don't think most folks would be happy dropping $50k on a flagship, and having the streamer component already out of date a year on the day they purchase it.

All that being said, it is very very easy with today's DAVE to be pushing a $30-40k digital chain, so the market is certainly there for that level of summit fi at the flagship level. I'm sure has their eye on that market. Can't wait to see what sonic miracles Rob is able to conjure with a "BOM be damned!" design remit!

I think that you are talking a lot of sense.
For Chord to produce an 'all in one' would require a change in the Rob Watts/Chord way of working.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...official-thread.831343/page-248#post-14353506

Historically the dac code has been Robs responsibility, and the streamer code seems to be Matts responsibility/accountability.
I can imagine that the lowest business risk way forward, is for Rob to continue to be responsible for the dac code, and Matt to be responsible for the streamer code side of activities.
To me, integrating everything into one package, seems like the biggest roadblock at present.
Personally I would like Chord to produce a streamer plus hard drive package, in a TT2 sized form factor, because that could act as an input source to the TT2 or DAVE.
One product, but several markets.
That would be my preferred solution, optimise the streamer, and optimise the dac.

 

[miketlse]

I agree, hopefully Chord will incorporate an optical interface between the Dave 2 and the Choral Mscaler. Fibre as widely used in computer networks surely wouldn't be much more expensive to implement than properly designed dual BNC connections. These will always be a comprise. The Opto-DX has been a fantastic addition to my system. It allowed me use a laptop as a high quality streamer. An external upgraded power supply would be a good option. The clock should be internal and as close to the DAC as possible.

I think that is the next horizon for Chord to explore.

 

[marcmccalmont]

I agree, hopefully Chord will incorporate an optical interface between the Dave 2 and the Choral Mscaler. Fibre as widely used in computer networks surely wouldn't be much more expensive to implement than properly designed dual BNC connections. These will always be a comprise. The Opto-DX has been a fantastic addition to my system. It allowed me use a laptop as a high quality streamer. An external upgraded power supply would be a good option. The clock should be internal and as close to the DAC as possible.

Hopefully the 1M upscaler is implemented on the same FPGA as the DAC in Dave II

 

[audio_1]

Hopefully the 1M upscaler is implemented on the same FPGA as the DAC in Dave II

I think a separate unit for the inputs, which can also contain the mscaler is a benefit. All sources can be connected to this, with just one high bandwidth optical connection to Dave. This solves so many problems.

 

[marcmccalmont]

I think a separate unit for the inputs, which can also contain the mscaler is a benefit. All sources can be connected to this, with just one high bandwidth optical connection to Dave. This solves so many problems.

but not a double spdif conversion and all chord dacs already have an upscaler that is bypassed with the mscaler and Rob would have less timing and ground issues