Thenewguy007
Headphoneus Supremus
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Would the higher Ω account for the larger volume headroom difference?
CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
- Thread starter magiccabbage
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Would the higher Ω account for the larger volume headroom difference?
Rob Watts
Member of the Trade: Chord Electronics
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No as the voltage drive available is identical - just over 6v RMS. The lower impedance indicates that higher currents are possible from Dave...
It probably requires a separate master clock that costs more than a Chord M-Scaler to sound its "best". It would also be interesting to see it with the cover removed. I bet there is about a metre of computer ribbon cable inside, and probably some of this is in the analogue signal path! The digital volume control will also kill dynamics if excessive attenuation is used and too high an output voltage is selected. I wonder do the single ended outputs use op-amps like the Vilvaldi? This DAC in no way compares with a Chord Dave and Blu 2 or M-Scaler.
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ecwl
500+ Head-Fier
Cool. I just found the Hi Fi News measurements of both DACs and DAVE measures better.
https://www.hifinews.com/content/dcs-bartók-network-dacheadphone-amp-lab-report
https://www.bluebirdmusic.com/edit/files/pdf_documents/chord_electronics/hfn_chord_dave_lowres.pdf
No surprise there!
Musikfan
100+ Head-Fier
Hi, I'm hoping some of you might have experience with Chord preamps and might be able to tell me the main differences between the cpa 3000 and the CPS 5000. I currently use the Dave+Mscaler with the Dave as preamp, and an Aesthetix Atlas and Vandersteen 5a carbons, with Dave as preamp. I'm wondering ifi could squeeze out more performance if I use a separate preamp instead of the Dave as preamp. Thanks for any advice and recommendations.
Christer
Headphoneus Supremus
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Hello, I am risking another scolding for OT posting again by responding again,I suppose,but in case you thought I stayed in Bangkok, the condo is not in Bangkok.No offence intended,for those who live there, but I wouldn't spend more than a few nights at a time there even if you paid me.
Last time I was in Bangok two years ago it was in fact on a paid visit.
The air quality is a serious health hazard there.
The condo where I normally spend a couple of months each winter is on one of the islands with a good air quality index.
But it can get very hot even on the islands.
I do have a fan but it is also too noisy, so I sometimes turned everything off while listening to music.
I can cope with heat quite well, but not with noise and air pollution.
Heat is no problem at all this summer in Sweden. My HMS actually sits on a small table with a table-cloth and doesn't get more than lukewarm most days although being on almost all day and night.
Cheers CC
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Dave is best and most transparent when driving power amplifiers direct. A pre-amp will make it sound worse.
Triode User
Member of the Trade: WAVE High Fidelity
I have tried various very hi end preamps (I am talking of up to £20k UKP) between Dave and power amps and whilst they might give Dave a bit of a false lift in the bass and upper mids which seems at first to be attractive (but for me quickly tires) I find that the addition of the preamp robs the Dave of a greater or lesser extent of its superb transparency. As per usual though, the best way is to try for yourself as there is always YMMV in this game.
ecwl
500+ Head-Fier
I agree with others that you'll lose transparency with a preamp, even if it's a Chord preamp. My take on the situation is that if you're still wondering if things can sound better, either you listen to a lot of old recordings and want a warmer sound so you'll want more distortion from a tube preamp (which I doubt) or that you have a bass frequency peak that is impacting the performance of your system that is a result of your room (& speaker and seat positions). This is because I think the frequency response of your Vandersteen is pretty flat so any bass response issues would be coming from room acoustics. Obviously, buying more electronics is not going to solve a room acoustic issue.
From my perspective, there are two potential solutions. One is to pay a true expert to fix the problem, like Jim Smith from Get Better Sound, who offers a RoomPlay service which helps you setup your speakers in person. Unfortunately, I've met enough self-proclaimed experts who really don't know what they're doing so I would only trust Jim Smith based on online comments. Of course, this would involve potentially significantly re-arranging your furniture/speakers by Jim Smith.
Another solution, given you already have a full digital system with UltraRendu, DAVE as digital preamp, etc., is to buy a USB microphone like miniDSP UMIK-1 and then run Room EQ Wizard to figure out what bass frequency response issues you have. If you play music off something like Roon, you can program in specific parametric EQ to digitally remove the bass peaks. My experience is that you actually don't want to simply use the measurements REW generates and punch it into Roon (or other software) because the music would lose a bit of life. And you definitely don't want to use the full room correction feature which I my opinion tend to over DSP the system. I generally just run parametric EQ on 1-3 bass peaks only and be done with it.
Theoretically, you can do both for optimal benefits. But my take is that given your system, if you're trying to squeeze even more performance out of it, it's good to go back to basics and fix any major bass response issues (in addition to other room acoustics issues, if possible).
Yes, bass due to standing waves is a concern for large speakers or having external sub set up. This was not a problem for near field listening when I transition from Head-Fi to Hi-Fi with a modest near field set up with Ragnarok and KEF LS50. I am now using a full range tower speaker and bass management requires attention. Big corner bass traps are not an option for me to install in my room and so I am using dual PSI Audio AVAA C20 active bass traps and more recently added the Trinnov Amethyst for room optimisation. The Trinnov is expensive but fantastic for room response frequencies and phase correction. Phase correction is an overlooked part but it matters greatly. Take a look at my attachment, the phase of low frequencies 50-100 is a mess. After correction, the bass is tight and coherent. Moreover, once the bass is under control, there is a huge improvement in clarity and imaging of the midrange and treble.
The Trinnov Amethyst preamp is not as transparent as the Dave and so I only use it as Roon Ready transport and send digital output to HMS+Dave. I tried using REW and Sonarworks but nothing beats the Trinnov for room optimisation and it is easy to set up.
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ecwl
500+ Head-Fier
Right. And my point was that if you just look at the REW measurements and apply two parametric EQ to reduce the 50Hz wide peak and 110Hz peak by 6-8dB via Roon, you may find the music to be even more engaging with DAVE and HMS. I usually use the Q and frequency REW found but I don’t always use the exact dB amount as I try to make sure the music is still engaging.
Yes, bass due to standing waves is a concern for large speakers or having external sub set up. This was not a problem for near field listening when I transition from Head-Fi to Hi-Fi with a modest near field set up with Ragnarok and KEF LS50. I am now using a full range tower speaker and bass management requires attention. Big corner bass traps are not an option for me to install in my room and so I am using dual PSI Audio AVAA C20 active bass traps and more recently added the Trinnov Amethyst for room optimisation. The Trinnov is expensive but fantastic for room response frequencies and phase correction. Phase correction is an overlooked part but it matters greatly. Take a look at my attachment, the phase of low frequencies 50-100 is a mess. After correction, the bass is tight and coherent. Moreover, once the bass is under control, there is a huge improvement in clarity and imaging of the midrange and treble.
The Trinnov Amethyst preamp is not as transparent as the Dave and so I only use it as Roon Ready transport and send digital output to HMS+Dave. I tried using REW and Sonarworks but nothing beats the Trinnov for room optimisation and it is easy to set up.
Yes, Roon Parametric EQ can be used to adjust down the pesky low freq bumps around 50-100. However, it does not take care of the phase issues in my room. I have a friend who was initially using Lyndorf TDAI 3400 but he later switched to using Roon EQ and approximate Convolution filter to fix the phase issue, he seems quite happy with the solution.
ecwl
500+ Head-Fier
Whereas my experience with convolution filters was that they seem to provide excessive DSP and rob the music of its life. That’s why I suggested just a couple of gentle bass parametric EQ to take care of the big issues. And just embrace the phase issues because there is no such thing as perfect audio?
Yes, it is possible for DSP to mess up. The Trinnov just works for me with the simplicity and effectiveness. It uses a 3d mic to measure and the actual process is much easier than using REW. I have my buddies over to listen and they like it too. Just sharing my experience as few hi-fi enthusiasts are aware of the capability of the Trinnov for room optimisation. One of the reason is that the Trinnov is better known in pro audio circle (studio are using the Trinnov ST2 Pro) and cinema/home theatre (Trinnov Altitude 16/32).
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