I could see how a less than perfect connection may make the system overly sensitive. But I wonder why it is sensitive to USB input, and not at all to optical input. I am getting another set of cables as a final check.
CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
- Thread starter magiccabbage
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Can you retest this on your DAVE using all of the BNC inputs? I’m curious to see what happens on BNC one and two.
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In my case drop outs are clearly more frequent with BNC 1 and 2, several a minute. It appears the cables are more sensitive to juggling as well. BNC 3 and 4 have less frequent drop-outs, but they still happen about once a minute or so.
Triode User
Member of the Trade: WAVE High Fidelity
Assuming the request was aimed at me I have just done that for you. ie trying 1+2 and 3+4 BNC into the Dave with the dual bnc outputs from Blu2 and HMS. Despite vigorous wiggling at both ends of the cables I cannot induce any dropouts at all. And that was using usb from my Innuos SE.
Triode User
Member of the Trade: WAVE High Fidelity
If 1 and 2 are more sensitive to jiggling and have more drop outs even without jiggling then that might support my thoughts that it is connection related.
Rob Watts previously wrote this below regarding the issue but I’m not sure I understand the rationale why it’s more prevalent on BNC 1 and 2 and inconsistent among DAVE owners with the Hugo M Scaler and Blu Mk II. I’m considering returning my Blu Mk II for this and a host of other rasons. I just don’t see the value of the Blu Mk II yet. Perhaps if Chord irons this out and makes a standalone M Scaler in the Choral enclosure I’ll purchase another one then.
Triode User
Member of the Trade: WAVE High Fidelity
I’m sorry about your issues. It’s difficult for me to say anything other than with the Blu2 and HMS that I own I haven’t had any drop outs. I am sat here listening to my Blu2 and I would be very reluctant to do without it. Have you tried raising the issue with your dealer? In my experience they are usually very helpful if a replacement or whatever is needed.
My dealer has already offered to replace if we cannot sort it out.
ciukas
100+ Head-Fier
I finally got to audition the DAVE vs TT2 this past weekend. High gain on TT2, no crossfeed. Quick A/B between the two using my iPhone as a source (Tidal) over USB using my usual test tracks. Unfortunately, did not compare the DAVE and TT2 both MScaled as originally planned.
These past several weeks, several users have already alluded to the idea that bc of its greater op stage, the TT2 offers a more immersive and musical experience with slightly difficult to drive headphones such as the Ether 2, 92dB (inner fidelity), LCD4 (stereonet), HEK V2 (romaz), Susvara (jude) compared to the DAVE. Ok, makes sense but what I really wanted to know was how efficient headphones fared on the two DACs. These last few months, I've tested and auditioned nearly every TOTL headphones on TOTL $10k amps (except for the Ether 2), and settled on the Empyrean. It sounded the best to me. But another reason I chose it is because its rated efficiency (100dB) would allow me to pair it with the DAVE without the nagging feeling that the TT2's greater dynamic drive might offer something more in terms of weight and authority. For headphone users, one of the DAVE's (sometimes) noted minor drawback is that it can sound slightly on the lean side, lacking some 'meat' so to speak. After all, who doesn't want more acoustic heft and slam when listening to tunes? Then, @STR-1 mentioned that even his very efficient Utopias benefited from the extra weight and authority with the TT2's drive, and I simply had to hear it for myself. I used the dealer's LCD2 (70 ohms, 101dB) because of its efficiency, and its planar design. Also, I know it extremely well, having owned it for years.
The very first thing I noticed is how much more closed in the TT2 sounded compared to the DAVE. I can't quite tell whether it was because of the extra taps, or its superior analogue op stage, but the DAVE sounds cavernous. It is a night and day type of difference to me. In contrast, the TT2 sounded warmer, more lush with all my test tracks, and had a very pleasing smooth tonality. Even though the TT2 sounded more closed in, it also sounded more full within its more confined space, which made music sound very pleasing and easy to listen to. More forgiving, and possibly more fatigue free for some people. The DAVE sounded considerably brighter, a lot more transparent, and had a more organic tonality. It's important to note that by bright, I dont mean it in the artificially boosted treble sense of the word, but rather use it relative to the TT2's darker sound signature.
The DAVE extracts more details from music, thus sounds brighter, and presents it all in a more natural way than the TT2. It seems to me that part of what gives the TT2 its warmth is partly due to the fact that music has this fantastic bass that is fuller and that decays more slowly than the DAVE which made the bass sound tighter, cleaner, and to my surprise, more punchy. And that's the second thing I noticed right away; I found the DAVE to be quite a lot faster, and more dynamic than the TT2. Just incredible speed. I was very pleasantly surprised by this, because I had read reports that the TT2's greater dynamic drive offered more transient impact in dynamic passages where there is peak demand for current. Not for me. The DAVE has more punch whereas the TT2 has more heft in the lower end. Almost like a dynamic vs planar driver type of comparison. So yes, even with an efficient headphone like the LCD2, music had extra weight (not authority), but not due to the reasons I thought it would be (greater headroom, greater current delivery, greater transient response thanks to supercaps), but rather bc I felt the DAVE's low end to be tighter, and leaner.
Another pleasant surprise, is that while I thought that the Dave would present a more majestic scale of large orchestral works, the TT2 might perhaps be better suited with other non classical/non jazz genres, having greater transient delivery of percussive instruments, etc... well actually, the DAVE not also sounded more holographic, more 3D on genres I mostly listen to, like rock, punk, post punk, techno, dark wave, etc, but it was also more explosive, more dynamic. On the other hand, on nearly every track, because of the fuller, more sustained, heftier low end on the TT2, I found myself wishing for these very qualities combined with the sheer speed, tonality, and transparency of the DAVE. The DAVE consistently showed more pleasing timbre variation and tonality, especially with violins, but when the darker fantastic bass growl of a cello or an octabass plays at the same time as violins, I can easily see why some would say the TT2 has greater weight and authority. Personally, I found the DAVE on a whole to have a greater mastery over the reproduction of music and thus a greater control and authority of the material. Music just makes more sense, and sounds more 'live'... But that TT2.... wow... what a performer... what a monster...
Obviously I left out a third system option, and that is DAVE + TOTL Amp + TOTL headphones. But because my lifestyle requires me to split my time between three countries every quarter or so, my primary interest in the DAVE and TT2 lay in knowing which of the two DACs would offer the ultimate transportable setup. That means no heavy, bulky, transparency robbing amp in the chain. It had to be either DAVE + efficient headphones (eg. LCD4z, Empyrean) or TT2 + inefficient TOTL (eg. 1266 Phi, Susvara, Ether 2, etc)
Clearly the setup of my audition was made from a standpoint that would best serve my personal needs (efficient headphones, transportable), and I would urge people to audition the DAVE and TT2 side by side if possible. Depending on your system configuration, it's very possible a TT2 + 1266 Phi/Ether 2/Susvara or future hard to drive headphones (Susvara 2?) handily beats a DAVE + LCD4z/Empyrean/Verite according to your taste. The TT2 is much much more versatile, and future proof this way. Also, my impressions were made without the MScaler. I very much look forward to more user reviews comparing the two DACs both MScaled w various headphones.
In the end, I went for the DAVE, and have placed my order... The die is cast but frankly speaking, it's all a win win situation with these two DACs... But still, a big part of me wishes Rob Watts would update the DAVE w his digital amps. Call it DAVE SE or smth, at least until he gets the tools from Xilinx to incorporate however many more taps or 'crumbs left in the barrel' from the DAVINA project into DAVE 2.
Finally, I might note that the TT2 is a lot better than the H2! I've previously heard the DAVE and H2 side by side in Seoul, and I can't quite understand it when people say the H2 isn't that far off... I love the H2, and used to own it, but the DAVE is miles ahead of the H2. Also, I wouldn't quite anoint the TT2 as a 'little brother' to the DAVE. As TT2 users have reported, it's an absolute beast, and it devours minions of H2 for breakfast. It's got its own unique character, it's more than just a H2 on steroids. Which DAC you prefer will really depend on your musical preferences and system synergy.
Will report back when I receive the DAVE Mscaled with the Empyrean.
These past several weeks, several users have already alluded to the idea that bc of its greater op stage, the TT2 offers a more immersive and musical experience with slightly difficult to drive headphones such as the Ether 2, 92dB (inner fidelity), LCD4 (stereonet), HEK V2 (romaz), Susvara (jude) compared to the DAVE. Ok, makes sense but what I really wanted to know was how efficient headphones fared on the two DACs. These last few months, I've tested and auditioned nearly every TOTL headphones on TOTL $10k amps (except for the Ether 2), and settled on the Empyrean. It sounded the best to me. But another reason I chose it is because its rated efficiency (100dB) would allow me to pair it with the DAVE without the nagging feeling that the TT2's greater dynamic drive might offer something more in terms of weight and authority. For headphone users, one of the DAVE's (sometimes) noted minor drawback is that it can sound slightly on the lean side, lacking some 'meat' so to speak. After all, who doesn't want more acoustic heft and slam when listening to tunes? Then, @STR-1 mentioned that even his very efficient Utopias benefited from the extra weight and authority with the TT2's drive, and I simply had to hear it for myself. I used the dealer's LCD2 (70 ohms, 101dB) because of its efficiency, and its planar design. Also, I know it extremely well, having owned it for years.
The very first thing I noticed is how much more closed in the TT2 sounded compared to the DAVE. I can't quite tell whether it was because of the extra taps, or its superior analogue op stage, but the DAVE sounds cavernous. It is a night and day type of difference to me. In contrast, the TT2 sounded warmer, more lush with all my test tracks, and had a very pleasing smooth tonality. Even though the TT2 sounded more closed in, it also sounded more full within its more confined space, which made music sound very pleasing and easy to listen to. More forgiving, and possibly more fatigue free for some people. The DAVE sounded considerably brighter, a lot more transparent, and had a more organic tonality. It's important to note that by bright, I dont mean it in the artificially boosted treble sense of the word, but rather use it relative to the TT2's darker sound signature.
The DAVE extracts more details from music, thus sounds brighter, and presents it all in a more natural way than the TT2. It seems to me that part of what gives the TT2 its warmth is partly due to the fact that music has this fantastic bass that is fuller and that decays more slowly than the DAVE which made the bass sound tighter, cleaner, and to my surprise, more punchy. And that's the second thing I noticed right away; I found the DAVE to be quite a lot faster, and more dynamic than the TT2. Just incredible speed. I was very pleasantly surprised by this, because I had read reports that the TT2's greater dynamic drive offered more transient impact in dynamic passages where there is peak demand for current. Not for me. The DAVE has more punch whereas the TT2 has more heft in the lower end. Almost like a dynamic vs planar driver type of comparison. So yes, even with an efficient headphone like the LCD2, music had extra weight (not authority), but not due to the reasons I thought it would be (greater headroom, greater current delivery, greater transient response thanks to supercaps), but rather bc I felt the DAVE's low end to be tighter, and leaner.
Another pleasant surprise, is that while I thought that the Dave would present a more majestic scale of large orchestral works, the TT2 might perhaps be better suited with other non classical/non jazz genres, having greater transient delivery of percussive instruments, etc... well actually, the DAVE not also sounded more holographic, more 3D on genres I mostly listen to, like rock, punk, post punk, techno, dark wave, etc, but it was also more explosive, more dynamic. On the other hand, on nearly every track, because of the fuller, more sustained, heftier low end on the TT2, I found myself wishing for these very qualities combined with the sheer speed, tonality, and transparency of the DAVE. The DAVE consistently showed more pleasing timbre variation and tonality, especially with violins, but when the darker fantastic bass growl of a cello or an octabass plays at the same time as violins, I can easily see why some would say the TT2 has greater weight and authority. Personally, I found the DAVE on a whole to have a greater mastery over the reproduction of music and thus a greater control and authority of the material. Music just makes more sense, and sounds more 'live'... But that TT2.... wow... what a performer... what a monster...
Obviously I left out a third system option, and that is DAVE + TOTL Amp + TOTL headphones. But because my lifestyle requires me to split my time between three countries every quarter or so, my primary interest in the DAVE and TT2 lay in knowing which of the two DACs would offer the ultimate transportable setup. That means no heavy, bulky, transparency robbing amp in the chain. It had to be either DAVE + efficient headphones (eg. LCD4z, Empyrean) or TT2 + inefficient TOTL (eg. 1266 Phi, Susvara, Ether 2, etc)
Clearly the setup of my audition was made from a standpoint that would best serve my personal needs (efficient headphones, transportable), and I would urge people to audition the DAVE and TT2 side by side if possible. Depending on your system configuration, it's very possible a TT2 + 1266 Phi/Ether 2/Susvara or future hard to drive headphones (Susvara 2?) handily beats a DAVE + LCD4z/Empyrean/Verite according to your taste. The TT2 is much much more versatile, and future proof this way. Also, my impressions were made without the MScaler. I very much look forward to more user reviews comparing the two DACs both MScaled w various headphones.
In the end, I went for the DAVE, and have placed my order... The die is cast but frankly speaking, it's all a win win situation with these two DACs... But still, a big part of me wishes Rob Watts would update the DAVE w his digital amps. Call it DAVE SE or smth, at least until he gets the tools from Xilinx to incorporate however many more taps or 'crumbs left in the barrel' from the DAVINA project into DAVE 2.
Finally, I might note that the TT2 is a lot better than the H2! I've previously heard the DAVE and H2 side by side in Seoul, and I can't quite understand it when people say the H2 isn't that far off... I love the H2, and used to own it, but the DAVE is miles ahead of the H2. Also, I wouldn't quite anoint the TT2 as a 'little brother' to the DAVE. As TT2 users have reported, it's an absolute beast, and it devours minions of H2 for breakfast. It's got its own unique character, it's more than just a H2 on steroids. Which DAC you prefer will really depend on your musical preferences and system synergy.
Will report back when I receive the DAVE Mscaled with the Empyrean.
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GreenBow
Headphoneus Supremus
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I am surprised by your choice. If you wanted the TT2 with the DAVE qualities, the TT 2 and M-Scaler would have been it, and more. (People say Hugo 2 and M-Scaler outperforms DAVE.)
ciukas
100+ Head-Fier
I did pick up my preordered HMS during the audition. It's sadly still sitting alone in its box waiting for its partner
Clive101
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Yes same problem....! With the Mscaler, more with BNC 1 & 2 less with BNC 3 & 4.
Is you dealer changing the Dave or Mscaler..?
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Very good write-up but do have a listen with the M Scaler.
I am not familiar with the LCD2 but if it has a tonal character similar to the LCD4 (which I understand is more detailed) I expect I would find it to synergise better with the DAVE (leaving aside driving power). This is always a personal preference thing but I thought my Utopia and HE1000v2 were a better tonal pairing with the TT2 than was my LCD4. Those who prefer a warm bass-rich sound might feel differently.
ciukas
100+ Head-Fier
I did own the LCDi4 for nearly a year, and it shares similarities with the 4z. I'm unsure which pairing the i4 would benefit more from but I can totally see why you'd think the Utopia is a better match with the TT2. As we've both stated, it really is quite system dependent. With the LCD2, I would absolutely go for the DAVE. Same with Empyrean, though that's a 50/50 guess. Those of you thinking of trading in your DAVE for the TT2, I'd strongly urge you to audition both if you can.
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Great write up thanks! I think it will help many people in their purchasing decisions. Are you still planning on testing TT2 Mscaler vs Dave Mscaler? Or did you send back the TT already?
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