CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[rgs9200m]

I tried a few USB cables before I got the Diamond when I first got my Hugo, and the Diamond really stood out in all the well-known audiophile sonic attributes we generally look for. This quality has proven true in both the Hugo TT and DAVE as I moved up the Chord line.
The Diamond was really a revelation in giving the digital the best attributes of analog.

(Edit for spelling error only.)

 

[delirium]

I tried a few USB cables before I got the Diamond when I first got my Hugo, and the Diamond really stood out in all the well-known audiophile sonic attributes we generally look for. This quality has proven true in both the Hugo TT and DAVE as I moved up the Chord line.
The Diamond war really a revelation in giving the digital the best attributes of analog.

I agree...thanks

 

[elviscaprice]

I think we need to be careful on these assumptions about optical vs. USB. I agree that digital glare is something we all strive to eliminate in playback and that a good test of that glare is listening fatigue. One should never get fatigued by their listening sessions but I don't think high volume listening is a good example of testing. High volume can be fatiguing in it's own right for many regardless of RF glare. Better is an appropriate volume level over time.
Also, we must be careful about what we call coloring sound. That is the reduction of detail or smoothing of the edges in order to gain a more pleasing sound, smoother.
We can have precise detail and non fatiguing sound with DAVE. I'm in the everything matters club, clocking and power especially, upstream or downstream of DAVE. Optical is no less immune to this, than USB, just to a different degree from clocking.

 

[delirium]

I think we need to be careful on these assumptions about optical vs. USB. I agree that digital glare is something we all strive to eliminate in playback and that a good test of that glare is listening fatigue. One should never get fatigued by their listening sessions but I don't think high volume listening is a good example of testing. High volume can be fatiguing in it's own right for many regardless of RF glare. Better is an appropriate volume level over time.
Also, we must be careful about what we call coloring sound. That is the reduction of detail or smoothing of the edges in order to gain a more pleasing sound, smoother.
We can have precise detail and non fatiguing sound with DAVE. I'm in the everything matters club, clocking and power especially, upstream or downstream of DAVE. Optical is no less immune to this, than USB, just to a different degree from clocking.

I love u

 

[rgs9200m]

Well, actually, higher volume listening is a good test I believe. In Tyll's (epic?) test of amplifiers for the Stax SR009 a few years ago, he emphasized how this revealing headphone that can easily show digital glare was basically only really acceptable with the BHSE amp since, as he turned the volume up, the sound just got louder, not fatiguing in the highs. None of the many other amps passed this test.

And that rings true, since I have always noticed that a fatiguing headphone session will always have me turn down the volume lower than I want to have a nice sound that saturates my music senses.
-------------
tl/dr:
If I can't make it loud enough to enjoy without shout and glare, something is wrong with the system.

 

[Triode User]

Well, actually, higher volume listening is a good test I believe. In Tyll's (epic?) test of amplifiers for the Stax SR009 a few years ago, he emphasized how this revealing headphone that can easily show digital glare was basically only really acceptable with the BHSE amp since, as he turned the volume up, the sound just got louder, not fatiguing in the highs. None of the many other amps passed this test.

And that rings true, since I have always noticed that a fatiguing headphone session will always have me turn down the volume lower than I want to have a nice sound that saturates my music senses.
-------------
tl/dr:
If I can't make it loud enough to enjoy without shout and glare, something is wrong with the system.

Exactly and precisely. I find turning up the volume is a really good test. I use speakers and it is a joy now to be able turn up the volume high enough that a can feel the bass guitar and kick drum in my stomach (I don’t have a sub speaker so this is just my normal speakers). In an unsorted system I can’t get it loud enough before the harshness makes it unbearable and the fatigue makes me want to turn it off, never mind just down.

 

[etnt]

I used to listen to the Dave at -30db, but recently moved on to -28db. So either there's less digital glare or I'm just going deaf?

 

[Triode User]

With Blu2 connected to Dave and then Dave direct into my Pass Labs power amps I used to mostly have Dave at -24db but now without the RF noise I often listen at -20db and one evening I noticed I had it at -18db without it seeming ridiculous.

So, like @etnt , I also say either there's less digital glare or I'm also just going deaf.

 

[rgs9200m]

Nice system Triode. Back in my speaker-based days, I had a Pass X350 w/Aerial 10T speakers, and when initially got the Pass I was struck at how the Pass made vocals sound so riveting and pure I thought I got new speakers.
The previous amp (an Aragon) just couldn't even come halfway close to this.

 

[delirium]

.

 

[musickid]

Enjoy

 

[EndGameSearch]

Question......

I have spent a substantial amount of money in the name of transparency. From Blu2 to various HFC products, my HP rig is sounding amazing. Adding a HP amp is somewhat counterproductive at this point, but I miss having the option for some tubey goodness at times and I'm back to researching amps. I understand the XLR output on DAVE was included as a convenience, and if I'm remembering correctly, it actually adds a stage that in itself can degrade transparency to a degree. So that leads to the question, all other variables being equal, is it "better" to use a single ended amp or a balanced amp off of DAVE if you aim to preserve as much transparency as possible?

 

[Triode User]

Question......

I have spent a substantial amount of money in the name of transparency. From Blu2 to various HFC products, my HP rig is sounding amazing. Adding a HP amp is somewhat counterproductive at this point, but I miss having the option for some tubey goodness at times and I'm back to researching amps. I understand the XLR output on DAVE was included as a convenience, and if I'm remembering correctly, it actually adds a stage that in itself can degrade transparency to a degree. So that leads to the question, all other variables being equal, is it "better" to use a single ended amp or a balanced amp off of DAVE if you aim to preserve as much transparency as possible?

I suspect that the difference in amps that you are looking at would be bigger than the difference between the rca and xlr on Dave. But if you are looking at tube amps I thought that they are mostly not available in balanced format anyway. I use the balanced output from Dave to my Pass Labs monos because of the longish length so that I could take advantage of the inherent noise cancelling properties of balanced cables. It sounds great and in truth I can’t be bothered to make up some rca cables of that length to test.

 

[EndGameSearch]

I suspect that the difference in amps that you are looking at would be bigger than the difference between the rca and xlr on Dave. But if you are looking at tube amps I thought that they are mostly not available in balanced format anyway. I use the balanced output from Dave to my Pass Labs monos because of the longish length so that I could take advantage of the inherent noise cancelling properties of balanced cables. It sounds great and in truth I can’t be bothered to make up some rca cables of that length to test.

I previously owned a Woo Audio WA22 which is a true fully balanced design but I was considering one of their single ended designs simply so I would not have to reterminate my Danacables. The WA33 (balanced) is very tempting. My only experience with tubes is with Woo but I’m open to suggestions. My rig is only used for HP’s.

 

[GraveNoX]

Alright, since we're talking about comparing USB on the DAVE, I have experiences of my own to share:

Today, I connected my 10 year old "once-considered-gaming-enthusiast" PC with a 12,5m optical cable to my Chord DAVE, as I wanted to compare it to my existing USB chain with a 12m Supra USB cable. The cables are that long due to the PC sitting in an office adjacent to the listening room. The USB chain remained connected to the Chord DAVE during the optical listening test, as it would be a hassle to take it out for each comparison, so you may consider the optical chain slightly handicapped in that regard.

The optical chain is:
PC -> 12,5m optical cable -> Chord DAVE

The USB chain is:
PC -> 12m Supra USB cable -> ISO REGEN (powered by LPS-1.2 connected via a male/male DC adapter) -> USPCB -> Chord DAVE

As I previously had confirmed that the PC -> Chord DAVE setup was capable of handling 192 KHz content using a much shorter 2m optical cable, I started listening to the optical chain using a 192 KHz recording from 2L, and it sounded absolutely great! I closed my eyes and let the music take me. Afterwards, I switched to the USB chain and while the same track still sounded very good, the microdynamics had been smoothed out a bit, causing a small drop of perceived clarity and reducing my emotional engagement with the music. Switching back to the optical chain restored that. The slight smoothing was now gone, leading to the orchestra and in particular the soloist violin being more clear, more dynamic, more engaging. I could close my eyes again.

I know my PC is very noisy as it is a watercooled monster with dual graphics cards, tons of fans, water pumps, etc. and the main reason I invested in the ISO REGEN/LPS-1.2 combo in the first place. I would think the problem area is either the small DC adapter or the lack of ferrites on the very long Supra USB cable, which is probably an excellent RF "magnet" due to its length. Since I hardly have any recordings in higher resolution than 192 KHz, I could probably settle for the optical chain, but the perfectionist in me would hate to leave the job half done. not to mention having expensive USB gear sitting around unused.

Has anyone experienced or had any luck getting rid of a slight smoothing over of microdetails in their USB chain by either getting rid of RF using ferrites on the USB cable or improving the DC connection to their USB source, e.g. ISO REGEN, micro- or ultraRendu or similar?

Try something similar to Delock 63276 which is a HDMI extractor with toslink out, it offers way way better sound compared to included toslink out of my PC with $250 Asus motherboard. The toslink out from the motherboard sounded better than USB no matter what I did to filter it, but that HDMI extractor changed the way I hear the Hugo 2.