[Beolab]

I followed you down the rabbit hole and discovered something truly dumbfounding:

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/directstream-all-about-it/biggest-single-upgrade-just-released/#p31820
I dunno, deciding to invest in a decent oscilloscope after you've launched your product is just bizarre.

That i find most hilarious !!

This states that they do not always know what they are doing when they program a FPGA code if they dont even can messaure it before they relese their DAC.

Its like when i e-mailed to MSB support if the have implemend any SQ performance changes from sw 1.1 to the latest 1.7 ?
They replayed that they where not certen if they have implemend any sound SQ tweaks in the newer SWś , so i replayed if he could check this with someone who know this.

The fast answer from Jonathan Gullman who is the developer and programmer of the SWś at MSB , and he didn't know or remember , so who do then know this i asked?

He replayed that the was consulting other external specialists that program their SW's in some cases.

So i think that Chord my be the only company that wrights their own SW code, and got an edge on MSB, but do not make their own FPGA boards. Here MSB have an edge on Chord maybe.

 

[paulchiu]

I followed you down the rabbit hole and discovered something truly dumbfounding:

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/directstream-all-about-it/biggest-single-upgrade-just-released/#p31820
I dunno, deciding to invest in a decent oscilloscope after you've launched your product is just bizarre.

 
a decent oscilloscope these days will cost more than a car.  A great one more than half a million dollars.

 

[rkt31]

I have used power cords made from furutech bulk power cables and furutech plugs. believe me these can beat even the most expensive readymade power cords of any brands. it was about $300 and the dealer compared it with $2000 cardas one and furutech easily bettered that in airiness and transparency !

 

[brightonjel]

Ha - that's funny!  I hadn't seen that.  If nothing else, I guess it just goes to show how fast digital techniques have produced solutions that have outstripped earlier analogue-based reproduction chains, to the point where a very significant 48db of extra measurement headroom is required.  Completely supports Rob's discussion of still finding improvement with 48 bit noise shapers offering 300bd of reduction!  And speaking of that, I just today read in the latest Stereophile (yup, finally caught up: Jan 2016 issue) a mention of Dave in the Industry Update section.  Alas, I think things got a bit lost in translation somewhere, despite the usually well-informed copy one finds in that magazine.
 
The writer cites the price as $16,000 in the US, but I think that's Dave plus stand, so not really the number one might expect for just Dave which I believe is $13k.  Next up, "Xilinx" came out as "Xylex" in a discussion of the FPGA technology.  Lastly, and I'll quote the next bit, "This chip feeds a new, 20-element, pulse-array DAC with second-order analog noiseshaper."  Well, kind of.  If I remember Rob's presentation correctly, the analogue output stage is where a novel second-order noise-shaping design is featured, whereas the digital noise shapers themselves are 17th order, 48-bit implementations.
 
Anyway, nice to see the first mentions in the press coming along - even if they are a bit mixed-up - and doubtless we'll see actual reviews in the coming months too. Until then, we just have to keep bugging DaveRedRef-III!
 
John

 

[Mython]

 

(I also read the update review of the PS Audio PerfectWave DSD.  The most interesting part was where the writer, based on an interview with Ted Smith, the designer, said, "A lot of the FPGA work is contouring the low-level noise and minimizing any interaction or modulation of the digital output signals".  In other words, it seems that there is a general appreciation at least of the key design issues Rob emphasizes, albeit in the context of a different approach, namely blanket conversion of all input data to DSD after up-sampling.)

I followed you down the rabbit hole and discovered something truly dumbfounding:

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/directstream-all-about-it/biggest-single-upgrade-just-released/#p31820

[...]But I was embarrassed that JA [John Atkinson, Stereophile measurements guy] found those problems instead of us so I ordered a new scope that was optimized for audio and had 48dB more resolution in the audio band.

Something Paul brought up when we were thinking about how best to address the low level distortion reminded me of a tradeoff in the FPGA we'd settled on quite a while back on a prototype board – much to my surprise with the new scope I could clearly see changes in distortion as I tried different tradeoffs.

I dunno, deciding to invest in a decent oscilloscope after you've launched your product is just bizarre.

 
 
Oh, I dunno - I actually find that kind of candour refreshing. I respect an engineer being open about overlooking something, being embarrassed about it, and learning from his/her oversight or mistake.
 
No shame in that at all.

 

[smial1966]

There's really no harm in posting this info in an audio forum as HMRC aren't going to pursue an Australian cable maker for a few lost pounds in VAT. But redacted info anyway, so please do the same with your earlier post. Thanks.
 
Quote:

   
 
It never ceases to amaze me, the number of Head-fiers who publicly post such delicate information in public threads.
 
Strewth...
 
 
 
 
 
smial - for Rob's sake, I suggest you delete that...

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

rkt31
I haven't tried that make, only their connectors. They may well be very good. I have had similar experience from other makes too and so long as they do not negatively affect musicality I see no reason to pay more than necessary.
 
In this respect I think many highly priced power chords are priced as based upon their shielding capability as well as low noise floor. I have found the Dave Dac HF filter to be pretty good and it has negated such concerns for my system leaving me to focus on the cables twhich best enhance musicality.In this respect Dave has probably saved me money on power considerations.

 

[mjdutton]

  Its interesting, the tempo of everything actually sounds faster, such is the bounce and drive of music played through the Dave dac. Its very alive on anything with a rythme. (I must drag out a Ska album. Could be fun.
 
If I were sitting at a DAW right now I would swear I had accidentally set the tempo 2-3 bpm faster. I know it is not but thats the impression I get. If this is the product of greater timing accuracy it is little wonder Vinyl lovers have decried digital for so long.
 
On the subject of overall musicality I cannot stress enough how important it is to a) Set your speakers up properly if you own 3 ways. This is critical imo and b) Use your most musical power cable with Dave. Different companies understand power flow better than others in my experience and price is not the arbiter of excellence in this respect. I have just pulled out a Circa £2000 power cable that could not live with my 10 year old favourite in regard to musicality. Shockingly different to the point that anyone would notice imo.
 
Set the speakers up correctly, use a musical power chord and it is hard to imagine any dac bettering this level of musicality ever.........but then again HiFi always has a habit of coming back to haunt us when we make such statements.

 
 
I'm planning to demo the DAVE dac shortly, but your comments about tempo worry me grateful.  Products that change the tempo of any music are usually bad new.  What is the rest of your system?

 

[Mavwong]

If you have chance try a 2m Ansuz USB diamond cable.
 
proven to be better than LH 10G.
 
 
 
Quote:

  LTS
Everything is Red Book from the Red Reference III but I am reading and learning about HiRez setups with a view to buying in the not too distant future. I really do rate Red Book through Dave but one cannot help wondering what higher resolution would bring (particularly in ease of flow).
 
musicman
Sorry I do not listen through headphones.
 
 
Guys I would be interested in your experience with good USB cables for streaming. Are they as good as AES or Coax for this purpose?

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

mjdutton - "your comments about tempo worry me"
 
Please re-read my comments I said I know it is not changing the tempo. It just sounds that way on up tempo music. This is as a result of Dave Dacs superior timing giving the music a lift. It is presenting the performance closer to how it was recorded.
 
Chain: Chord Red Reference III - Chord Dave Dac - Chord SPM 1200 MKII - Sonus Faber Olympica III loudspeakers

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Thanks Mavwong - "If you have chance try a 2m Ansuz USB diamond cable.
 
proven to be better than LH 10G."

 

[Jiffi32]

I have had very good results with a USB cable from Rob at - http://www.curiouscables.com - and I know that he's gaining recognition for producing excellent cables at comparatively reasonable prices. Part of his design 'philosophy' is to separate the power and data lines, use appropriate shielding and excellent quality wire.

For wont of a better expression and at the risk of incurring the cable refuseniks wrath, my Curious Cables USB lead is the most 'musical' that I've yet heard.1​+

+1 with curious cables!!
I am using it with a HUGO and it is the most musical usb cable i have heard compared to other cables. Rob does a 30 day money back trial too so no risk.
Its helping me with my Dave withdrawal. while i'm busy saving

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

   
 
Oh, I dunno - I actually find that kind of candour refreshing. I respect an engineer being open about overlooking something, being embarrassed about it, and learning from his/her oversight or mistake.
 
No shame in that at all.

 
As an Engineer....... A++ with Mython's comment although would say oversight rather than a mistake.     We all over look something at times even the best of us i.e. Einstein, Newton, Maxwell, Da Vinci, Galileo, etc, etc all overlooked some of their theories which years later were proven to be exactly correct.
 
Any person willing to dedicate their time, energy and effort for the better of mankind deserves full respect.......Problem is people who don't undertake such amazing journey's are very quick to criticise somebody who has.....enough said on this subject. 

 

[mjdutton]

  mjdutton - "your comments about tempo worry me"
 
Please re-read my comments I said I know it is not changing the tempo. It just sounds that way on up tempo music. This is as a result of Dave Dacs superior timing giving the music a lift. It is presenting the performance closer to how it was recorded.
 
Chain: Chord Red Reference III - Chord Dave Dac - Chord SPM 1200 MKII - Sonus Faber Olympica III loudspeakers

Thank you for your reply.  My experience is that products that change the tempo don't have great timing, making the music drag or gobble.  I will wait until my demo of DAVE Dac before I comment any more.

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Today has seen the biggest change in sound during the burn-in process (around 170 hrs). Bass performance, separation, dynamics and an analogue smoothness have kicked in. Will decribe in more detail my observations in relation to this change in due course. Taking my time as I want to be balanced and thorough.
 
It will be an interesting Christmas here as I will not be mentioning the new piece of HiFi equipment. I want people to hear music reverberating throughout the house rather than have people sitting in the HiFi room. I want to witness the effect on them over the period. There is no doubt in my mind the musical and dynamic attributes of Dave carry outside the room.