CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Dec 13, 2015 at 12:05 PM Post #976 of 25,747
Bmichels, Dave is in a totally different league to the Hugo, but what the Hugo does well, Dave does even better... And then goes further to take things to the 'state of the art'. I would dare anyone who owns and liked Hugo, to listen to Dave without withdrawal symptoms :stuck_out_tongue:.

Sorry to put down the Hugo, but the difference is like moving from a BMW Sports to a Porsche. One is a great car and fits the wallet and all round needs of many, but if you are a serious driver, once you drive the Porsche, you will know why it is a Porsche. Both from Germany with the same breed, but the other with a no compromise objective to take things to the edge.

As for sound signature, it is going to come down to whether you chose your headphone to match the shortcomings of Hugo. For example, I felt that the Hugo sounded dull (less bright) tonally compared to DcS. But with the increased air/ambience of Dave, I realized that other dacs increased brightness was actually to overcome that lack of air.. makes sense?

I should mention that this is probably the production version of the Dave that was finally blessed by Watts for release. Sorry but a lot of Head fi'ers are going to feel much poorer for this. Especially due to the all in one headphone feature of Dave.


No disrespect but I have driven both Porsche and BMW many many times, and much prefer BMW. Much superior car in driving dynamics.  BMW are much more technically advanced cars than the simpler porsche ones. 
 
One of my friends who owns a Cayenne V8 who owned an X5 previously said the same, the X5 is a much sportier car.

When I compared BMW M6 with V10 engine to V8 Panamera, it was no match, the BMW is a car for sports drivers, and the panamera, just a pretty looking car.
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 6:56 PM Post #977 of 25,747
No disrespect but I have driven both Porsche and BMW many many times, and much prefer BMW. Much superior car in driving dynamics.  BMW are much more technically advanced cars than the simpler porsche ones. 

One of my friends who owns a Cayenne V8 who owned an X5 previously said the same, the X5 is a much sportier car.


When I compared BMW M6 with V10 engine to V8 Panamera, it was no match, the BMW is a car for sports drivers, and the panamera, just a pretty looking car.


The comparision Bmw Vs Porsche was not a good one to understand the diffrence.

I think more Opel Vectra OPC vs Bentely its a better parallel according to my impressions of what my sources have told me.
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 7:52 PM Post #978 of 25,747
Is all this car talk wheely necessary? 
rolleyes.gif

 
Dec 13, 2015 at 11:25 PM Post #979 of 25,747
  Rob, it is commonly said that the capacitors, resistors, and even solders have specific sound signature so that hifi product designers often do listening tests, swapping those analogue components to adjust the product sound.
 
Is this the case with you and your product as well?
 
Also, even for the surface-mount type of components, we have resistors / capacitors in wide range of price from few cents each to $10 each... what was your philosophy or approach when selecting analogue components for Dave? I'm a bit curious about that.

Absolutely, and I spent a lot of time researching and listening in the 1980's why metal/metal interfaces, solder, passive components etc make a big difference to the sound.
 
Its a bit complex, as RF characteristics, dielectric absorption (caps), small signal non-linearity, resistor non-linearity and resistor thermal non-linearity all have an influence to the final sound quality. So I could spend all day talking about it.
 
On manufacturing of boards, the soldering makes a big difference to the sound quality. All Chord products are now reflow soldered and soldered in an inert nitrogen gas atmosphere - this prevents the silver solder from oxidising. Normally, flow solder machines are used, and these have awful impurities. We do not use flow soldering - the leaded components are reflow soldered in nitrogen too, in this case they use an automated syringe to inject silver solder paste into the PCB holes. Then its nitrogen reflow soldered. Its another reason why all products from Mojo to Dave has such exceptional sound-staging and detail resolution. Its also curious that this automated technique sounds better than hand soldering.
 
Rob
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 11:42 PM Post #980 of 25,747
   
very good sign indeed.
 
So now we need a battle between the 3 pretenders for "Best DAC with a Headphone Out" :  NAGRA HD DAC, TotalDAC D1-Dual (or Mono) &  DAVE.  Who will win ? 

That depends on how one defines best - if best is defined as transparency and musicality then Dave will win easily. I am prepared to bet a brand new Dave against a bottle of Bollinger that Dave will win.
 
In fact that's way too easy a proposition. I will bet a brand new Mojo against a bottle of beer that Mojo will be more musical and transparent than those DAC's.
 
If anybody wants to challenge me on this, then PM me, but you will need to bring one of those DAC's (or any other reference class DAC's) to Carmarthen, Wales. Plus a bottle of beer and a bottle of Bollinger.
 
Rob
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 11:58 PM Post #981 of 25,747
I have compared the Hugo to some very hi-end and expensive digital sources, and the Hugo sounded better to my ears.
 
In fact the Hugo with very basic interconnects still sounded better than the best of another brand with some pretty expensive interconnects.
 
So I confidently expect Rob to win any challenge with best digital sources you could think of.
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 11:58 PM Post #982 of 25,747
That depends on how one defines best - if best is defined as transparency and musicality then Dave will win easily. I am prepared to bet a brand new Dave against a bottle of Bollinger that Dave will win.

In fact that's way too easy a proposition. I will bet a brand new Mojo against a bottle of beer that Mojo will be more musical and transparent than those DAC's.

If anybody wants to challenge me on this, then PM me, but you will need to bring one of those DAC's (or any other reference class DAC's) to Carmarthen, Wales. Plus a bottle of beer and a bottle of Bollinger.

Rob
How about 4 cans of Guinness Rob?
 
Dec 14, 2015 at 11:02 AM Post #985 of 25,747
This may be of interest to UK members that have pre-ordered DAVE from their Chord dealer -

"Just spoke to my Chord Rep, they are still shipping out demo units to dealers, this should be done by mid week then they are going to focus on customer orders which they are still hopeful of getting yours to me before Christmas".

- above received today from Paul at hifi lounge.

So hopefully those of us in the UK that pre-ordered it will enjoy a DAVE inspired Christmas this year! :)
 
Dec 14, 2015 at 2:15 PM Post #986 of 25,747
My rep said no units will be shipped between Christmas and January 12, 2016, so i will receive mine sometime after that. I assume some people will get theirs before or by Christmas i don't know for sure.
 
Dec 14, 2015 at 5:40 PM Post #987 of 25,747

Apropos headphone matching, I was just reading the Hugo TT review in Sereophile (Nov. 2015 ... it takes me a while to catch up!)  The reviewer preferred the Audeze LCD-X to the Sennheiser HD800s for headphone listening.  YMMV, of course, but just FYI.  The reviewer also tried Grado, but no mention of electrostatics or planars. 
 
(I also read the update review of the PS Audio PerfectWave DSD.  The most interesting part was where the writer, based on an interview with Ted Smith, the designer, said, "A lot of the FPGA work is contouring the low-level noise and minimizing any interaction or modulation of the digital output signals".  In other words, it seems that there is a general appreciation at least of the key design issues Rob emphasizes, albeit in the context of a different approach, namely blanket conversion of all input data to DSD after up-sampling.)
 
John
 
Dec 14, 2015 at 5:42 PM Post #988 of 25,747
  Absolutely, and I spent a lot of time researching and listening in the 1980's why metal/metal interfaces, solder, passive components etc make a big difference to the sound.
 
Its a bit complex, as RF characteristics, dielectric absorption (caps), small signal non-linearity, resistor non-linearity and resistor thermal non-linearity all have an influence to the final sound quality. So I could spend all day talking about it.
 
On manufacturing of boards, the soldering makes a big difference to the sound quality. All Chord products are now reflow soldered and soldered in an inert nitrogen gas atmosphere - this prevents the silver solder from oxidising. Normally, flow solder machines are used, and these have awful impurities. We do not use flow soldering - the leaded components are reflow soldered in nitrogen too, in this case they use an automated syringe to inject silver solder paste into the PCB holes. Then its nitrogen reflow soldered. Its another reason why all products from Mojo to Dave has such exceptional sound-staging and detail resolution. Its also curious that this automated technique sounds better than hand soldering.
 
Rob

Rob, thank you for your comments and explanations! It is really good to know that all Chord products from Dave to Mojo are manufactured with advanced and reliable process that enhances sound quality!
 
Dec 14, 2015 at 10:01 PM Post #989 of 25,747
Is Dave suitable for headphones like Stax 009?
Or they will sound best from a electrostatic amplifier.
Have anyone tried this combo?

Sorry, the Dave, (or any non-electrostatic amplifier) will drive the 009s (or any Stax). They ONLY work with dedicated electrostatic amps. You can however use the Dave as a DAC to feed that electrostatic amp. I use the very excellent Hugo TT as a DAC to feed my Liquid Lightning 2 (dedicated e-stat amp).
 
Dec 15, 2015 at 4:02 AM Post #990 of 25,747
Has the Chord Dave been tested or reviewed by any major audio publication?
Thanks
 

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