[marcmccalmont]

No. people do hear differences that pleases them.

GG

First of all Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays "Tis the season to be Jolly"!
Second this is a fun hobby and everyone has the right to enjoy the music they like and the equipment they like, Vanilla, Chocolate or Strawberry enjoy!
Internet forums are a place for people to learn and ask for advice, accept what they like reject what they don't
I suspect many people have a piece of equipment in their system that is relatively high distortion and is masking the small improvements in CREDIBLE tweeks like power cables, power regeneration, interconnect cables, vibration isolation etc. Computers as a source, tube amps, and single driver speakers (as pleasant as they sound) are very high distortion compared to other options and the small improvements above are probably masked by distortion and noise. But all can sound very pleasant and your preference is fine for you I respect that, but in pursuit of accurate reproduced music trying to recreate live music or what the studio engineer was able to record I'd suggest lower distortion/noise equipment from one end of your sytem to the other including proper room treatments.
Merry Christmas I Hope Audio Santa is good to you!

 

[Christer]

I've had similar problems with my Hugo TT and DAVE over the years. Jitterbug and ferrites make no difference. I found the same as you, that by increasing the sample rate in the Windows audio properties (i.e. because I'm using Windows mixer), the soft clicks would stop.

WASAPI from Foobar is a complete solution.

Optical is also a solution in my system, working at any sample rate (upto 192KHz) with Windows mixer.

On my TT with the SD input, which does not use the Chord driver, there was no problem. The SD input also has no galvanic isolation and only supports 44.1KHz/48KHz sample rates, so it's really there for direct connection of phones/tablets.

With my DAVE, if I change track sometimes I get a few clicks within the first few seconds. On YouTube videos this is very common. It seems to me that DAVE (and TT before it, which did the same) is trying to get the PC to do something shortly after the music starts and this interferes with the transmission of music.

So, I have to conclude that the fault lies entirely with Chord. My old PC might be relevant, but this is a common complaint with Chord's USB.

I very much doubt a USB device between PC and DAVE will solve this problem, as the PC itself is being "interrupted" as it tries to send the music.

The lipsync problem is already there with HUGO to some degree. And one of the reasons I prefer my DAC 2 when watching Concert Broadcasts online is that with HUGO I can see that the conductor's beat is sometimes slightly behind instead of spot on, or actually a wee bit ahead as he or she is actually giving a a sign for something that is about to happen.
It can be very disturbing.
It is much less of a problem with my DAC 2.
I have never watched any videos via DAVE. But if the problem is worse than with HUGO I also don't think you can fix it with such add ons. The problems lies in Delay /latency. Jitterbugs obviously add distortions and are not a solution for this type of problem if I understand things correctly?

 

[tunes]

I've had similar problems with my Hugo TT and DAVE over the years. Jitterbug and ferrites make no difference. I found the same as you, that by increasing the sample rate in the Windows audio properties (i.e. because I'm using Windows mixer), the soft clicks would stop.

WASAPI from Foobar is a complete solution.

Optical is also a solution in my system, working at any sample rate (upto 192KHz) with Windows mixer.

On my TT with the SD input, which does not use the Chord driver, there was no problem. The SD input also has no galvanic isolation and only supports 44.1KHz/48KHz sample rates, so it's really there for direct connection of phones/tablets.

With my DAVE, if I change track sometimes I get a few clicks within the first few seconds. On YouTube videos this is very common. It seems to me that DAVE (and TT before it, which did the same) is trying to get the PC to do something shortly after the music starts and this interferes with the transmission of music.

So, I have to conclude that the fault lies entirely with Chord. My old PC might be relevant, but this is a common complaint with Chord's USB.

I very much doubt a USB device between PC and DAVE will solve this problem, as the PC itself is being "interrupted" as it tries to send the music.

This comment was made by someone on Amazon attempting to discredit those who can tell the difference between a $500 USB cable and a $10 USB cable. “My best friend and I have invested a small fortune in audiofile equipment. My friend Roger called to tell me about the new great USB cable he bought and how it had improved his system. I thought he was kidding at first but then realized he was sincere. Told him I would be right over. Sure enough he had the cable plugged between his Mac Pro and his Esoteric DAC. I quietly listened to a few songs and then asked if he minded if we compared it with a few cable I had brought along. He was thrilled for the opportunity and wanted to see my cables. I suggested that I keep the cables hidden and see if he could tell when his Coffee USB cable was playing. He said sure. Over the next three hours, I swapped cables and played the same songs over and over again with his cable and the four cables I brought over. No volume level changes were made. He rated his coffee cable number 4. The cables I brought over were out of my junk cable bin. Cables 1 & 2 were basic free USB cables that come with components. Cable 3 was an Audioquest FOREST cable that was in my junk drawer because one of the connectors had been stepped on but still fit. Cable 5 was a $10 Monster cable.”

Now I understand how ferrite cores around a cable can help eliminate RF noise but do not understand how a cable carrying a digital signal can really make a SQ difference. From an engineering perspective I understand how cables can alter sound in the analogue domain but in the digital domain it either works or it doesn’t.

Can Rob chime in here. Does the DAVE really benefit from a $500 + USB cable the likes of Audioquest

 

[Triode User]

I've had similar problems with my Hugo TT and DAVE over the years. Jitterbug and ferrites make no difference. I found the same as you, that by increasing the sample rate in the Windows audio properties (i.e. because I'm using Windows mixer), the soft clicks would stop.

WASAPI from Foobar is a complete solution.

Optical is also a solution in my system, working at any sample rate (upto 192KHz) with Windows mixer.

On my TT with the SD input, which does not use the Chord driver, there was no problem. The SD input also has no galvanic isolation and only supports 44.1KHz/48KHz sample rates, so it's really there for direct connection of phones/tablets.

With my DAVE, if I change track sometimes I get a few clicks within the first few seconds. On YouTube videos this is very common. It seems to me that DAVE (and TT before it, which did the same) is trying to get the PC to do something shortly after the music starts and this interferes with the transmission of music.

So, I have to conclude that the fault lies entirely with Chord. My old PC might be relevant, but this is a common complaint with Chord's USB.

I very much doubt a USB device between PC and DAVE will solve this problem, as the PC itself is being "interrupted" as it tries to send the music.

I am not quite sure how you conclude that the problems you have are entirely to do with Chord. The other common element is your PC. Maybe that is the problem. I have never had any issues like that playing Youtube, iTunes from my iMac via a crappy cheap usb cable or from Auralic Aries also with a crappy cheap cable.

 

[Triode User]

This comment was made by someone on Amazon attempting to discredit those who can tell the difference between a $500 USB cable and a $10 USB cable. “My best friend and I have invested a small fortune in audiofile equipment. My friend Roger called to tell me about the new great USB cable he bought and how it had improved his system. I thought he was kidding at first but then realized he was sincere. Told him I would be right over. Sure enough he had the cable plugged between his Mac Pro and his Esoteric DAC. I quietly listened to a few songs and then asked if he minded if we compared it with a few cable I had brought along. He was thrilled for the opportunity and wanted to see my cables. I suggested that I keep the cables hidden and see if he could tell when his Coffee USB cable was playing. He said sure. Over the next three hours, I swapped cables and played the same songs over and over again with his cable and the four cables I brought over. No volume level changes were made. He rated his coffee cable number 4. The cables I brought over were out of my junk cable bin. Cables 1 & 2 were basic free USB cables that come with components. Cable 3 was an Audioquest FOREST cable that was in my junk drawer because one of the connectors had been stepped on but still fit. Cable 5 was a $10 Monster cable.”

Now I understand how ferrite cores around a cable can help eliminate RF noise but do not understand how a cable carrying a digital signal can really make a SQ difference. From an engineering perspective I understand how cables can alter sound in the analogue domain but in the digital domain it either works or it doesn’t.

Can Rob chime in here. Does the DAVE really benefit from a $500 + USB cable the likes of Audioquest

Rob may comment but he has consistently said that Dave is not very critical of the USB source / cable. For instance Rob says that he has not noticed any benefit from ferrites on the USB input cable into Dave (but I think he does admit this might be due to low background RF in his environment and / or pc).

"Now I understand how ferrite cores around a cable can help eliminate RF noise but do not understand how a cable carrying a digital signal can really make a SQ difference". And that is where I am as well. If there is any difference between USB cables then it is more than likely to be a noise issue and the cable cannot be altering the basic digital signal. Noise can be attacked with cheap ferrites. Any remaining sound difference between digital cables is, in my humble opinion, more likely to be a severe attack of expectation bias. This is much more powerful than most people realise.

 

[marcmccalmont]

Rob may comment but he has consistently said that Dave is not very critical of the USB source / cable. For instance Rob says that he has not noticed any benefit from ferrites on the USB input cable into Dave (but I think he does admit this might be due to low background RF in his environment and / or pc).

"Now I understand how ferrite cores around a cable can help eliminate RF noise but do not understand how a cable carrying a digital signal can really make a SQ difference". And that is where I am as well. If there is any difference between USB cables then it is more than likely to be a noise issue and the cable cannot be altering the basic digital signal. Noise can be attacked with cheap ferrites. Any remaining sound difference between digital cables is, in my humble opinion, more likely to be a severe attack of expectation bias. This is much more powerful than most people realise.

USB cables are unique in that they carry signal and power unlike most digital cables that are signal only. Ferrites filter noise on the outer shield but the better usb cables shield the inner signal wires from the power. So the quality of the dc on your source can have an effect too. I’ve found both the Pangea and the Tripp lite usb cables to address these issues at a fair price. With a lot of listening from my N10 I still prefer the coax connection to the usb (the N10 is a very low jitter phase noise source)

 

[Triode User]

Triode User said: ↑
I can think of no reason why that power cord can make a blind bit of difference to Dave. Are you really really sure it is not just a fat helping of expectation bias? Unfortunately it is more powerful than you might expect.

No. people do hear differences that pleases them.

GG

I am sorry to labour the point but that very same 'difference' that pleases people might still just be expectation bias. This is not Sound Science in here but is there one jot of reason why a different power cord to the Dave might make any difference?

 

[marcmccalmont]

Triode User said: ↑
I can think of no reason why that power cord can make a blind bit of difference to Dave. Are you really really sure it is not just a fat helping of expectation bias? Unfortunately it is more powerful than you might expect.



I am sorry to labour the point but that very same 'difference' that pleases people might still just be expectation bias. This is not Sound Science in here but is there one jot of reason why a different power cord to the Dave might make any difference?

Yes shielding from external emi and rfi which is real science
Also be careful of your bias the reverse placebo effect is just as strong as the placebo effect, you don't want the medicine to work so it doesn't

 

[Triode User]

Yes shielding from external emi and rfi which is real science
Also be careful of your bias the reverse placebo effect is just as strong as the placebo effect, you don't want the medicine to work so it doesn't

OK, possibly, but that is only the last few feet. What about the rest of the cabling in the wall? But I realise this is a well worn path and I have no desire to side track the Dave thread down that path.

I will put my reverse placebo effect pills back in my pocket but I am sure you know where I am coming from with the need to have the snake oil detectors set to high in this game.

 

[marcmccalmont]

OK, possibly, but that is only the last few feet. What about the rest of the cabling in the wall? But I realise this is a well worn path and I have no desire to side track the Dave thread down that path.

I will put my reverse placebo effect pills back in my pocket but I am sure you know where I am coming from with the need to have the snake oil detectors set to high in this game.

Yes I agree 100% we are all trying to weed out the snake oil! but lets not throw out the baby with the bath water either. As I posted earlier to eliminate noise from the house wiring I used to wire dedicated lines in conduit from my breaker box but since the PS Audio power plants have evolved I use one to regenerate clean ac at my stereo and use well shielded Pangea power cords that are reasonably priced between the power plant and my equipment. You can spend a lot of money on hi end audio and not get good results but to get good results you usually do need to spend good money. This year I found the following products that are world class and are expensive; Blu2/Dave, Clearer Audio digital cables and Focal Utopia headphones. I also found the following equipment that is reasonably priced and is world class (breaking the above rule) Hugo2, Pro-ject CD box RS and Power box RS, Beyer DT 880 pro 250 ohm V4, and Trip Lite USB cables! Again all of our snake oil detectors should be on high but there are well engineered products out there! We should all keep an open mind (and open ears) so our biases for and against don't impede our pursuit of getting closer to live sound. Heck I'm biased against Focal speakers and Focal drivers but I put that bias aside and bought a pair of Focal Utopia headphones Focal has designed one of the best headphones out there!

 

[TheAttorney]

Here's what I am struggling with: I get occasional soft clicks -- at least they aren't loud pops. I am guessing this is the dreaded USB issue, though in the identical configuration except for DAC, I've had no issues with 2 previous DACs. Here's the even stranger thing -- if I tell Windows to upsample more, the clicks become less prevalent. As a matter of fact, I've been running in 384kHz (most movies are 48kHz) without issue for several days.

If the various suggested external gadgets don't help with your clicking problem, then my suggestion is the free-to-try Process Lasso app. This is designed to improve PC efficiency and reduce latency (Gamers in particular use it to get the fastest possible response out of their processor-intensive games). You can start with its default "probalance" mode (no adjustments required at all). If that doesn't help, then you can tell it that your music app is a game, which automatically puts the PC into maximum possible responsiveness, with no down side that I can find.

In the past, I came across the occasional clicking issue with my W10 laptop. I can't remember exactly what cured it, but it didn't involve any changes to DAVE or DAVE driver. This was all before I started using Process Lasso.
I use PL to improve the sound quality of my Windows laptop, which it does with so little effort on my part. There are many manual changes that can be further made with PL, like allocating a higher processing priority to your audio app (which I think further slightly improves SQ), but the PL designer cautions that unconsidered manual changes can do more harm than good. Start by sticking to the above defaults.

 

[Triode User]

Yes I agree 100% we are all trying to weed out the snake oil! but lets not throw out the baby with the bath water either. As I posted earlier to eliminate noise from the house wiring I used to wire dedicated lines in conduit from my breaker box but since the PS Audio power plants have evolved I use one to regenerate clean ac at my stereo and use well shielded Pangea power cords that are reasonably priced between the power plant and my equipment. You can spend a lot of money on hi end audio and not get good results but to get good results you usually do need to spend good money. This year I found the following products that are world class and are expensive; Blu2/Dave, Clearer Audio digital cables and Focal Utopia headphones. I also found the following equipment that is reasonably priced and is world class (breaking the above rule) Hugo2, Pro-ject CD box RS and Power box RS, Beyer DT 880 pro 250 ohm V4, and Trip Lite USB cables! Again all of our snake oil detectors should be on high but there are well engineered products out there! We should all keep an open mind (and open ears) so our biases for and against don't impede our pursuit of getting closer to live sound. Heck I'm biased against Focal speakers and Focal drivers but I put that bias aside and bought a pair of Focal Utopia headphones Focal has designed one of the best headphones out there!

Actually, just to admit that I am open to try things I had already put in place to try a PS Audio P10 powerplant. One attraction for me is that it can output correct voltage. My mains is pretty stable at 253v and so all my valve equipment is working at higher than design heater voltages and plate voltages which is not good especially as I have them on about 8 hours every day. That might be one reason why I get through valves! The P10 could save its own cost.

 

[Triode User]

USB cables are unique in that they carry signal and power unlike most digital cables that are signal only. Ferrites filter noise on the outer shield but the better usb cables shield the inner signal wires from the power. So the quality of the dc on your source can have an effect too. I’ve found both the Pangea and the Tripp lite usb cables to address these issues at a fair price. With a lot of listening from my N10 I still prefer the coax connection to the usb (the N10 is a very low jitter phase noise source)

If anyone has a few hours they want to fill then try perusing this thread in Sound Science. It did my head in, as they say.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/why-do-usb-cables-make-such-a-difference.855479/

 

[rayl]

If the various suggested external gadgets don't help with your clicking problem, then my suggestion is the free-to-try Process Lasso app. This is designed to improve PC efficiency and reduce latency (Gamers in particular use it to get the fastest possible response out of their processor-intensive games). You can start with its default "probalance" mode (no adjustments required at all). If that doesn't help, then you can tell it that your music app is a game, which automatically puts the PC into maximum possible responsiveness, with no down side that I can find.

In the past, I came across the occasional clicking issue with my W10 laptop. I can't remember exactly what cured it, but it didn't involve any changes to DAVE or DAVE driver. This was all before I started using Process Lasso.
I use PL to improve the sound quality of my Windows laptop, which it does with so little effort on my part. There are many manual changes that can be further made with PL, like allocating a higher processing priority to your audio app (which I think further slightly improves SQ), but the PL designer cautions that unconsidered manual changes can do more harm than good. Start by sticking to the above defaults.

I am pretty sure it is priority as well as exclusive mode works. But neither mytek or psaudio had these issue. A really old musical Fidelity I had did. I think there is insufficient buffering at the DAC end to compensate for fluctuations.

As I said other drivers have tweakablr buffers. This one doesn’t.


I am hoping a reclocker will add buffering. I will know in a few days.

I do agree the jitterbug won’t help as it is only a filter. I was in a rush and just grabbed it knowing it can be returned

 

[TheAttorney]

I recommend you try PL anyway. It's free-to-try and easy and it should make your PC sound a bit better whether or not it gets rid of your clicks (and my guess is that it has a fair chance of removing the clicks anyway. These types of issues are often borderline, so improving the PC's responsiveness can just tip it in the riight direction).

The other popular apps in this category are Fidelizer Pro (which may help, but requires a bit more effort) and Audio Optimizer (which I haven't tried becuase it requires considerable effort to set up).

Whether or not your incoming ISORegen fixes your clicks, it too should incrementally improve sound quality, but if you do like it, then it becomes obligatory to fret about upgrading its stock power supply for an even better sound