[analogmusic]

I think we've got it about right in product terms then!

 
 

   
thats quite the statement
 
so you could say it goes something like this
 
1. Mojo 80% £399
2. Hugo TT 90% £2,995
3. Dave 100% £7,995

 
How I wish this were true. I own Mojo and Hugo, and Dave sounds quite different to my ears, much superior !

 

[railcannon]

The spec sheet saids DAVE Headphone Output is 1%THD at 6.8Vrms
 
I think DAVE has worse Headphone Out stage than mojo which has 3Vrms 0.00017% THD+N although DAVE specification is measured at twice higher output voltage.
 
Of course, It doesn't make a sence. I Want to know the appropriate Headphone Output Voltage meets DAC Analog Out specification 127.5dB (AWT) THD+N.

 

[Mojo ideas]

The spec sheet saids DAVE Headphone Output is 1%THD at 6.8Vrms

I think DAVE has worse Headphone Out stage than mojo which has 3Vrms 0.00017% THD+N although DAVE specification is measured at twice higher output voltage.

Of course, It doesn't make a sence. I Want to know the appropriate Headphone Output Voltage meets DAC Analog Out specification 127.5dB (AWT) THD+N.

I think you should read the specifications in a little more detail. Dave 6.8Volts RMS reading at 1 percent distortion is telling you the clipping point of Dave ie at 6.8 volts it's starting to clip and the distortion rises to 1percent. The usual distortion measurement of Dave is more than ten times better than mojo at around 0.000015 percent when Daves output is below its clipping point.

 

[Rob Watts]

  The spec sheet saids DAVE Headphone Output is 1%THD at 6.8Vrms
 
I think DAVE has worse Headphone Out stage than mojo which has 3Vrms 0.00017% THD+N although DAVE specification is measured at twice higher output voltage.
 
Of course, It doesn't make a sence. I Want to know the appropriate Headphone Output Voltage meets DAC Analog Out specification 127.5dB (AWT) THD+N.

The direct comparison is:
 
OP volts 1% 300 ohms 
Dave: 6.8v
Mojo: 5.4v
 
THD and noise 3v
Dave: 0.00009%
Mojo: 0.00017%
 
The -127.5 dB figure is at 2.5v RMS ref to max OP voltage. Its the same as the dynamic range, so you get the same figure at 2.5v as at -60dB.
 
THD gives a different picture:
THD 2.5V RMS 300 ohm
Dave: 0.000007%
Mojo: 0.0001% 0.000007%0.000007%0.000007%
 
Rob

 

[Ampus]

Hi Ampus
If i remember right bmichels got to test the Hugo tt,and said he could hear no different between the Hugo and the Hugo tt.You seem to have sort of problem of not being able to hear the difference 's between the mojo and dave.I can hear the difference 's between the mojo,Hugo,hugo tt,Dave,by just using a stock hd800 headphone,and the Dave is noticeably better.IF you want to hear you're music in the most realistic way,the Dave at the moment is the best tool for doing that on this planet.If you like your music in a different flavour,then you need to be looking at different equipment.

Lovethatsound,

I never said that I could not hear the differences between Mojo and DAVE. What I said was that the differences were subtle. I won't belabor the point anymore as you can go back and read my posts if you like.

For your viewing pleasure, I copied and pasted Bmichel's old post on page 116 below

Bmichels
I have a question

offline
4,327 Posts. Joined 9/2012
Location: Brugge, Belgium
Quote:
Originally Posted by chordguy View Post

I saw the bit were he said "After 3 years of hesitations..... I JUST placed yesterday my deposit for my BHSE. This will be the last batch of the BHSE SE with the separate PSU. So I could not resist..." but saw no reference to his views on Dave?
​

Sorry for not reporting here. As I said in another thread my listening session was too short to make purchase decision and I will listen to DAVE again when i return to Europe in 2 weeks.

But I have to admit that i have been less impressed than I expected. May be I expected too much ? May be i need more listening time ?

 

[Kakki]

Rob, all, I have questions about the USB input of Dave.
 
I got a question in our local hifi forum that providing clean 5V for Dave's USB input will improve the sound qulity.
There are special USB cables having analog PSU to supply clean 5V. Example is as follows (in Japanese).
 
http://sv50.wadax.ne.jp/~ay-denshi-com//articles/html/products/detail.php?product_id=90
 
Does Dave benefit from those cables? I read post #1410 by Romaz which says that the galvanic isolation is done not directly to the USB signals but to the I2S signals after the decoding... does this mean that the 5V from USB is also isolated so that above kind of product has no effect to Dave?
 
Another question is about the USB and the optical input.
 
Yesterday I carefully compare the USB / optical input of Dave and could not hear difference at all (which is good as I prefer optical).
 
I remember that Rob once mentioned that USB input can be slightly better than optical. Is that because of the RF noise from the optical sensor that impacts the sound quality? I'm just curious what makes those 2 inputs different.

 

[lovethatsound]

Hi Ampus
point taken,i was referring to one of his early posts.But the rest of my post still applies,and i mean this in a nice way.Only you can decide if you want a Dave or if you want a different dac.Their are lots of posts on this thread,saying how good the Dave is,and to be honest very few people not liking it.Bmichels could not hear the difference between the Hugo and the Hugo tt,I and lots of other people can,just like i can hear a big difference between the mojo and the Dave.I wish you all the luck in world,and hope you find the dac you're looking for☺

 

[railcannon]

Thanks to your reply! I just worried about DAVE's Headphone output stage that usually may cause degradation of performance. 
Now I have a clear answer that clarifies I was wrong. NICE!
Of cource, I'm Sorry about I can not afford to buy this AMAZING machine.
But I believe just a question is free! Plz, Tell me It is ok :')

 

[STR-1]

Hi Steve,

Yes, the site does offer that suggestion but it depends on the application of your DAC.  

I spoke extensively with the tech and sales managers at Shunyata and they recommend for my use the Sigma Analog because the DAVE, although digital, is analog out.  Based on customer and dealer feedback and their in-house comparisons, the Sigma Analog is preferred over the Sigma Digital or Sigma HC on DACs.

Just to confirm all the talks, I compared for weeks samples of the Analog and Digital cords with my DAVE and other DACs both through headphones and speakers.  I returned the Digital cords.

Connecting the Analog to the wall is already efficient but if you must, use a Triton V2 or the smaller MPC12 conditioners.

I use a Sigma HC from wall to a Triton V2 power conditioner.  I do not power any computer devices on the Triton.  (Macs, Dells, routers, modems, hard drives, etc.)  I use a MPC-12C for those.

paul

#1500

Paul, thanks. So, using a headphone direct into the Dave, you preferred Shunyata analogue to Shunyata digital? I guess then that Shunyata recommend digital for dac use when it is in a chain before preamp/amp? Sorry if the question is a little naive but I have little experience with full-chain audio systems and am just trying to better understand the role digital- and analogue-compatible kit play in such a system.

Your point about listening to the Shunyata analogue for a few days before making a judgement is well made. The loan arrangement I had with the Shunyata cable was quite limited and circumstances meant that I had to return after one day, and I had been testing another power cable and a power regenerator at the same time. So, on reflection, I realise that I did not give the Shunyata a fair chance to prove itself. I'll see if I can get another loan. I think it will be some time before the dealer gets the digital version of the cable (Shunyata are currently changing their UK distributor).

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions. Steve

 

[Rob Watts]

  Rob, all, I have questions about the USB input of Dave.
 
I got a question in our local hifi forum that providing clean 5V for Dave's USB input will improve the sound qulity.
There are special USB cables having analog PSU to supply clean 5V. Example is as follows (in Japanese).
 
http://sv50.wadax.ne.jp/~ay-denshi-com//articles/html/products/detail.php?product_id=90
 
Does Dave benefit from those cables? I read post #1410 by Romaz which says that the galvanic isolation is done not directly to the USB signals but to the I2S signals after the decoding... does this mean that the 5V from USB is also isolated so that above kind of product has no effect to Dave?
 
Another question is about the USB and the optical input.
 
Yesterday I carefully compare the USB / optical input of Dave and could not hear difference at all (which is good as I prefer optical).
 
I remember that Rob once mentioned that USB input can be slightly better than optical. Is that because of the RF noise from the optical sensor that impacts the sound quality? I'm just curious what makes those 2 inputs different.

 
No don't worry about the USB VBUS +5v, as it too is isolated from Dave.
 
If you want the best possible SQ then listen with a lap-top with battery operation - but like the difference between optical and USB, its in my bottom scale of SQ differences - audible only via a very careful AB listening test, and will having no significant difference in the enjoyment of music. In practice, when just enjoying music, I don't care about battery usage on the lap-top, or whether its USB or optical - they all work identically from the musicality POV. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters.
 
The technical reasons between optical and USB is that optical has complete RF isolation - matched with USB when fed via a lap-top in battery mode and no ground connection - but USB has slightly better timing as the source clock is Dave's local clock, so no re-timing issues via USB.
 
Rob  

 

[ecwl]

I have to say while we all hear music and DACs differently, I think the general commonality I see amongst the people who say they don't hear a big difference between Chord Mojo and Chord DAVE or Chord DAVE and TotalDAC (or other similar comparisons) is probably the use of additional electronics downstream. I understand that people have their favorite preamplifier/headphone amplifier, etc. And because of system setup reasons, e.g. need for phono input, driving electrostat HP, they may have to have their preamplifier/headphone amplifier in their system. And perhaps that's a good reason to save the money and not upgrade to DAVE if they don't hear a big difference.
 
But from my perspective, I hear a clear difference between Chord DAVE and Chord Mojo when I listen straight through my headphones. That experience made me realize my Sanders Magtech amplifier probably is not as transparent as I would have liked (although one can argue it could be my speakers/speaker cable/interconnect). While there is still a clear difference between Chord DAVE and Chord Mojo, going through my power amplifier and speaker system does reduce the difference slightly, particularly, in revealing some of the low-level details that the Chord DAVE provides (that are audible through HP). While I have never compared Chord DAVE and Chord Mojo through a preamplifier, I can say putting either through a Krell 280p or Sanders preamplifier (or even Oppo HA-1 analog input) dramatically reduces the sound quality to a point that I would say the difference between with and without the preamplifier is bigger in pretty much any speaker system I heard than the difference between DAVE and Mojo through direct headphone.
 
I know some people would say, well, that's just because the preamplifiers I tried are not transparent enough but other owners of their pre-existing preamplifier/HP amp are much higher quality components so that's not the issue. Well, a good friend owns the MSB Diamond DAC IV and he used to have the Krell Evolution Two as a preamplifier and he eventually switched to the passive attenuator that comes with the Diamond DAC IV because we found the Krell Evolution Two to be not transparent enough.
 
Shortly after DAVE came out, there were a flurry of posts in this forum saying that what comes after the DAVE (referring to headphone cables and headphones) are more important than what comes before the DAVE (referring to power cords and USB/Toslink cables). I think this particularly applies in speaker systems.

 

[Kakki]

   
No don't worry about the USB VBUS +5v, as it too is isolated from Dave.
 
If you want the best possible SQ then listen with a lap-top with battery operation - but like the difference between optical and USB, its in my bottom scale of SQ differences - audible only via a very careful AB listening test, and will having no significant difference in the enjoyment of music. In practice, when just enjoying music, I don't care about battery usage on the lap-top, or whether its USB or optical - they all work identically from the musicality POV. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters.
 
The technical reasons between optical and USB is that optical has complete RF isolation - matched with USB when fed via a lap-top in battery mode and no ground connection - but USB has slightly better timing as the source clock is Dave's local clock, so no re-timing issues via USB.
 
Rob  

 
Thank you Rob, for the clarification. Yes, the most important thing is the musicality... to simply enjoy the music.
I enjoy music as never before since I got Dave in my house. Thank you for such a great product.

 

[paulchiu]

Paul, thanks. So, using a headphone direct into the Dave, you preferred Shunyata analogue to Shunyata digital? I guess then that Shunyata recommend digital for dac use when it is in a chain before preamp/amp? Sorry if the question is a little naive but I have little experience with full-chain audio systems and am just trying to better understand the role digital- and analogue-compatible kit play in such a system.

Your point about listening to the Shunyata analogue for a few days before making a judgement is well made. The loan arrangement I had with the Shunyata cable was quite limited and circumstances meant that I had to return after one day, and I had been testing another power cable and a power regenerator at the same time. So, on reflection, I realise that I did not give the Shunyata a fair chance to prove itself. I'll see if I can get another loan. I think it will be some time before the dealer gets the digital version of the cable (Shunyata are currently changing their UK distributor).

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions. Steve

Hi Steve
I imagine the sigma digital power cord is ideal for something like an aurender w20 digital server. This feeds digitally into a DAVE. I have tried this and in this application, the music is improved over using a sigma analog cord.

Paul

 

[raypin]

Mmmm....if you have already invested, say, 20000 usd in quality headphones/in-ears or 50000 usd in new speakers, would you buy the Mojo and call it a day? I mean, really? I mean, really really?

 

[STR-1]

Hi Steve
I imagine the sigma digital power cord is ideal for something like an aurender w20 digital server. This feeds digitally into a DAVE. I have tried this and in this application, the music is improved over using a sigma analog cord.

Paul

Thanks. I'll get that loan Alpha Analogue back and stop bothering you. Cheers