[Meridian7]

Ok, but why people sell the Dave?
What’s the next upgrade?
I have seen like 5-6 Daves for sale this spring.

The Dave's I know of which were sold 2nd hand was same reason: people wanted to get rid of multi boxes and wanted a more integrated system.
What prices did you see for those Dave's?

 

[alexsh1]

The Dave's I know of which were sold 2nd hand was same reason: people wanted to get rid of multi boxes and wanted a more integrated system.
What prices did you see for those Dave's?

Integrated? What integrated DAC can be at par with the Dave?
$6000-7500 in the USA

 

[Meridian7]

Integrated? What integrated DAC can be at par with the Dave?
$6000-7500 in the USA

Same price ballpark in EU.
People who choose for mere integrated know they gonna backstep in quality, taking colateral damage.

 

[Whazzzup]

Dave 6 g? In Canada they go for 20 g that would be 14 g usd

 

[alexsh1]

Dave 6 g? In Canada they go for 20 g that would be 14 g usd

We are talking about the second-hand Dave

 

[alexsh1]

People who choose for mere integrated know they gonna backstep in quality, taking colateral damage.

You may be right.
Chord Electronics products work really well together through the BNC conn and I think this was a plan from the very beginning.

 

[alxw0w]

Or maybe a wish for something new.

This one is also known as shopaholism.
Sad state of many audiophiles.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I am really interested in your comparison when DAVE goes swimming in the Pacific . Do you have both at your place right now?

Yup, I have both the Pacific and MDave. Will start doing comparisons next week. I don't anticipate doing a major write up, as I'm just a bit too busy, but I'll share some bullet points after a bit of time to A/B them.

 

[alexsh1]

This one is also known as shopaholism.
Sad state of many audiophiles.

Let's just admit it - this is not about audio any more.
Reviewers are also pushing a lot of people for needless upgrades. Particularly on "Chi Hi Fi" when a new product is coming out every 6 months.
Things used to be much more stable years ago when 2 channel setup was for life. I believe due to internet development (Youtube) audiophiles are given
a lot of information.

Very dangerous disease: Audiophilia Shopaholism Nervosa (modifying your diagnosis )

 

[alxw0w]

Let's just admit it - this is not about audio any more.
Reviewers are also pushing a lot of people for needless upgrades. Particularly on "Chi Hi Fi" when a new product is coming out every 6 months.
Things used to be much more stable years ago when 2 channel setup was for life. I believe due to internet development (Youtube) audiophiles are given
a lot of information.

Very dangerous disease: Audiophilia Shopaholism Nervosa (modifying your diagnosis )

Yes, thats actually a good post that sums it nicely.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Ok, but why people sell the Dave?
What’s the next upgrade?
I have seen like 5-6 Daves for sale this spring.

This ^. Or maybe a wish for something new. And I guess there are dacs out there that are equal to DAVE or even ‚better‘. But better is just a matter of taste in this price region. Lampizator, APL, Wadax, DCS could come to mind for a change of sound signature.
But the Tambaqui has a streamer built in for the same price point. I see people changing for convenience, but I doubt that the Tambaqui is really ‚better‘ than Dave.

The biggest reason I have seen that also resonates with me and is why I upgraded, is simply because the mDave is not perfect. For whatever reason, that comes off as blasphemy in this thread, which is just unfortunate as this applies to literally every single other piece of gear I have ever heard.

There are DACs that are better than the Dave. They are out there; and you see a lot of people that move on and don't come back. The Pacific alone is a big upgrade from a resolution, spacing and realism standpoint--something I totally did not expect. Would have never imagined, and I mean an immediate big wow factor difference. I personally wanted a new dac because the Dave can come off as a bit thin and analytical at times, and I also was hoping for a boost in bass performance. With the Pacific, the tone improved, with improved detail, but the bass performance and presentation seems pretty similar overall. (This is with headphones btw, I don't use the Dave with my speakers, but that may likely change).

That said, the Dave is still very, very good and the main issue I see is to keep the same level of detail and resolution or better, while improving in others, it does seem like you have to spend quite a bit more. That alone is an amazing testament to the Dave. And no one that owns one should ever worry about it not competing with other Dacs. But this idea that it doesn't get better than the Dave and anyone moving on is just on an upgrade chase is a bit ludicrous. FYI, I agonized about moving on from Dave for years. And I still haven't and will likely get the cap and LPS mods done and then re-compare w/the Lampi (which I suspect may move it ahead bass wise, but we'll see).

Let's just admit it - this is not about audio any more.
Reviewers are also pushing a lot of people for needless upgrades. Particularly on "Chi Hi Fi" when a new product is coming out every 6 months.
Things used to be much more stable years ago when 2 channel setup was for life. I believe due to internet development (Youtube) audiophiles are given
a lot of information.

Very dangerous disease: Audiophilia Shopaholism Nervosa (modifying your diagnosis )

I joined this site almost 20 years ago and I don't think a whole lot has actually changed honestly from a buying habit perspective. And 2 channel was never really the thing for people on this site (although many have them), but I do absolutely agree that there's far less "upgraditis" when it comes to them.. mainly because speakers are such a pain to upgrade and take a lot of fiddling to get a system in the right place.

But that said, the obsessive buying and tinkering is literally a thing in nearly every other hobby and at the end of the day I only mind my own pockets and don't much care about what others spend. Nor do I worry about what others think of my purchases, makes things a bit simple. You just have to figure out your own philosophy and stick to it.

 

[alexsh1]

The biggest reason I have seen that also resonates with me and is why I upgraded, is simply because the mDave is not perfect. For whatever reason, that comes off as blasphemy in this thread, which is just unfortunate as this applies to literally every single other piece of gear I have ever heard.

There are DACs that are better than the Dave. They are out there; and you see a lot of people that move on and don't come back. The Pacific alone is a big upgrade from a resolution, spacing and realism standpoint--something I totally did not expect. Would have never imagined, and I mean an immediate big wow factor difference. I personally wanted a new dac because the Dave can come off as a bit thin and analytical at times, and I also was hoping for a boost in bass performance. With the Pacific, the tone improved, with improved detail, but the bass performance and presentation seems pretty similar overall. (This is with headphones btw, I don't use the Dave with my speakers, but that may likely change).

That said, the Dave is still very, very good and the main issue I see is to keep the same level of detail and resolution or better, while improving in others, it does seem like you have to spend quite a bit more. That alone is an amazing testament to the Dave. And no one that owns one should ever worry about it not competing with other Dacs. But this idea that it doesn't get better than the Dave and anyone moving on is just on an upgrade chase is a bit ludicrous. FYI, I agonized about moving on from Dave for years. And I still haven't and will likely get the cap and LPS mods done and then re-compare w/the Lampi (which I suspect may move it ahead bass wise, but we'll see).

Nothing is perfect. As I have designed my own PCBs and did other things including the front panel design, I know that designing any complex product like a DAC is never going to be perfect. There is a sound theory and physics and there is a sound perception. And the latter is VERY subjective.

About upgrading to other DACs, you mentioned the Pacific, but it is $27000 and this is almost twice the Dave's price. This is not apples with apples comparison.
Additionally, I think 98% need a proper EQ + Dave not another DAC. Mola Mola apparently not the best upgrade. So the question is this: what is the best update for the same money as the Dave?

I joined this site almost 20 years ago and I don't think a whole lot has actually changed honestly from a buying habit perspective. And 2 channel was never really the thing for people on this site (although many have them), but I do absolutely agree that there's far less "upgraditis" when it comes to them.. mainly because speakers are such a pain to upgrade and take a lot of fiddling to get a system in the right place.

But that said, the obsessive buying and tinkering is literally a thing in nearly every other hobby and at the end of the day I only mind my own pockets and don't much care about what others spend. Nor do I worry about what others think of my purchases, makes things a bit simple. You just have to figure out your own philosophy and stick to it.

We are not arguing about 2ch vs headphones here. That's not the point though I think you are 100% correct. I still keep my old B&W speakers for more than 20 years but changed headphones many time lol.
I have joined this site this year despite tinkering with sound since the 1990s. Even in those years many audiophiles were buying and keeping Teac, Pioneer, McIntosh or Musical Fidelity for life or at least 20 years. Denon was THE KING. Such things change in the 2000s including habits. Spending culture just became horrible.
And yes I agree with you about your philosophy as I adopted the same one. I mind my own business, share my experience here and learn new things.

 

[Whazzzup]

same money, hmmm weise helios dac. course its got DSP internal, well whether one wants to use it is optional. Frankly one probably can't expect dave which is priced at 8 year old tech with anything new. add 35% for inflation at least and ones looking at 30G price point comparable. but what do i know

 

[alexsh1]

same money, hmmm weise helios dac. course its got DSP internal, well whether one wants to use it is optional. Frankly one probably can't expect dave which is priced at 8 year old tech with anything new. add 35% for inflation at least and ones looking at 30G price point comparable. but what do i know

Weise Helios DAC is a good example!
In my view and I am sure many would disagree, only a streamer and maybe DAC have to be upgraded in the whole system be it 2ch or headphones.
I still use a tube amp and this is a technology from the 1940s with maybe some little improvement. And quality cables are still quality cables regardless years.

 

[alexsh1]

same money, hmmm weise helios dac. course its got DSP internal, well whether one wants to use it is optional. Frankly one probably can't expect dave which is priced at 8 year old tech with anything new. add 35% for inflation at least and ones looking at 30G price point comparable. but what do i know

I am sure you know that the next Dave will be like 4-5 times more expensive?