[VM72]

Things also get a bit more complex with noise shaping to high degrees of accuracy.
Running things with an extremely accurate noise shaper and using arbitrary precision levels of say 64 bit vs 256 bit can actually still change the final output for a 24 bit file.

I imagine the new MScaler whilst it also will most likely have a more advanced filter itself, will also probably have a better noise shaper. Will be interesting to see though!

It may be interesting whether the new Mscaler will resample DSD to PCM or DSD to DSD. As far as I know, Chord Dave is the only Chord DAC that processes DSD natively

 

[alxw0w]

As far as I know, Chord Dave is the only Chord DAC that processes DSD natively

No it is not.
DSD is being converted to PCM as it is with all Chord dacs.

 

[VM72]

No it is not.
DSD is being converted to PCM as it is with all Chord dacs.

Are you sure?

 

[alxw0w]

Are you sure?

Yes it accepts DSD in native format on USB input up to 512 and up to 64 in dop format on coax/toslink.
But it doesn't mean that it's processing DSD inside in native format.
DSD is decimated to PCM - this is how Chord dacs work. It's delta sigma dac, no other way around.
So yes I'm sure.

ps. yes some (maybe all?) AKM delta sigma chips have option to decode DSD in native but there is a special section inside the chip that handles that, so the delta sigma modulation is being omited. Every (? not sure but probably yes) other delta sigma dacs/chips have to convert DSD to PCM.

 

[ecwl]

Are you sure?

Also, virtually no DACs actually truly play DSD natively because most of them don’t just have a 1-bit DSD element where you can feed the DSD signal and it just plays back that signal. Most of them have 16 to 32 elements where your 1-bit DSD element is played by all 16-32 elements at 16-32x your DSD sample rate. Sure, you’re playing your “original” DSD signal but in reality, by playing the signal this way, you’re not really getting a “native” DSD playback since the signal is being altered.

 

[Powersquat]

You cannot dodge age related hearing loss, how does Rob Watts account for this given listening tests are a vital part of his methodology?
I’d understand if there was a third party involved for this part of the process, that would make sense, or Rob has made evaluation tests decades ago.

I understand his son Daniel is currently at university and is studying for a music, recording related degree. Rob has mentioned in a number of posts that his son is involved in his work, both listening evaluations and live recording.

 

[VM72]

Also, virtually no DACs actually truly play DSD natively because most of them don’t just have a 1-bit DSD element where you can feed the DSD signal and it just plays back that signal. Most of them have 16 to 32 elements where your 1-bit DSD element is played by all 16-32 elements at 16-32x your DSD sample rate. Sure, you’re playing your “original” DSD signal but in reality, by playing the signal this way, you’re not really getting a “native” DSD playback since the signal is being altered.

and what about Holo May? There is separately PCM and DSD ladder

 

[ecwl]

and what about Holo May? There is separately PCM and DSD ladder

I just posted this question on Audiophile Style.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/67772-is-native-dsd-playback-a-myth/#comment-1235177

You might want to read my explanation. I'm reasonably certain Holo May DSD playback works the same way with multi-element shift register FIR. But I might be wrong about that. It would be interesting for experts in that area to comment on that forum.

 

[LucyWu]

Holo May, like earlier Holo ladder dacs has what is probably a thermometer code ladder for processing DSD. You need a good lowpass filter with this approach (lots of noise otherwise gets through to the output). Current ESS Dacs do not decimate DSD, but they do process the bits (to enable volume processing on chip).

 

[ecwl]

Holo May, like earlier Holo ladder dacs has what is probably a thermometer code ladder for processing DSD. You need a good lowpass filter with this approach (lots of noise otherwise gets through to the output). Current ESS Dacs do not decimate DSD, but they do process the bits (to enable volume processing on chip).

Interesting. I was able to google online and somebody in Roon forum commented that the older Holo Spring uses a separate resistor network for DSD processing/playback, similar to the DSC1 DAC which definitely is a multi-element DSD DAC using shift register FIR. It's possible Holo May works differently. I guess only the DAC designer can comment on how it actually works.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Holo May, like earlier Holo ladder dacs has what is probably a thermometer code ladder for processing DSD. You need a good lowpass filter with this approach (lots of noise otherwise gets through to the output). Current ESS Dacs do not decimate DSD, but they do process the bits (to enable volume processing on chip).

Exactly right.

 

[Jawed]

PS Audio DACs are pure DSD aren't they? They even convert PCM to DSD before the conversion to analogue. Well, that's my understanding.

 

[Powersquat]

PS Audio DACs are pure DSD aren't they? They even convert PCM to DSD before the conversion to analogue. Well, that's my understanding.

I have no idea of how PS Audio dac's work, but having listened to a Perfect Wave dac and more recently the Direct Stream model, I can't say I cared for the sound of either unit and I say this as the very happy owner of a PS Audio Perfect Wave sacd transport.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I have no idea of how PS Audio dac's work, but having listened to a Perfect Wave dac and more recently the Direct Stream model, I can't say I cared for the sound of either unit and I say this as the very happy owner of a PS Audio Perfect Wave sacd transport.

What it does is basically convert it all to DSD and then use an N bit approach just like other sigma Delta DACs, the filters are done on an FPGA and the Noise shaper apparently. Still just an N bit sigma delta DAC.

 

[flyte3333]

No it is not.
DSD is being converted to PCM as it is with all Chord dacs.

No... Not DAVE in DSD+ mode