[Reactcore]

but it is time to move on and start thinking about power supply for Dave. All this on mscaler/Dave, with mscaler on battery.

I can recommend the Farad solution i just heard it 2 days ago in my home.

But if you rather keep on batteries like your HMS.. i made a schematic for a linear solution losing the internal SMPS.

I still must order the parts and start testing..
1st on dummy loads ofc.

 

[iDesign]

Dave was launched in May 2015 and 7 years is a very long time indeed in terms of developments in digital technology. Dave has been surpassed nowadays, but the fact that people still think so highly of it is testament to what a ground breaking achievement it was at the time. And it’s performance per price point was staggering back then. I was an early adopter and, whilst I no longer have one, I have only fond memories - well apart from the clunky ferrite bound dual umbilical connections!

It will be very interesting to see what Rob does next when he feels ready to leapfrog his own design. No doubt the hoopla will start all over again but hopefully with less argument about the best way to connect.

I appreciate that Rob Watts has long development cycles and he does not design dishonest products with planned obsolescence. I have long said Chord needs to explore firmware/small component upgrades for their DAVE rather than releasing a successor ahead of a major recession. The upgrade strategy has been successful for dCS, PS Audio, Schiit and many others. Lets consider Mike Moffat’s flagship Yggdrasil which was released nearly 10 years ago as an example, it is not thought of as an aging product, they rarely appear for sale, and have strong resale values— all that has everything to do with the upgrades. The promise of upgrades is the very reason dCS has gained momentum and they just followed through with 2.0 and Apex.

I don’t feel the DAVE is due for an update anytime soon but hopefully Rob Watts and Chord use the time to iron out an upgrade program and start printing return shipping labels.

 

[sm60]

I appreciate that Rob Watts has long development cycles and he does not design dishonest products with planned obsolescence. I have long said Chord needs to explore firmware/small component upgrades for their DAVE rather than releasing a successor ahead of a major recession. The upgrade strategy has been successful for dCS, PS Audio, Schiit and many others. Lets consider Mike Moffat’s flagship Yggdrasil which was released nearly 10 years ago as an example, it is not thought of as aging product, they rarely appear for sale, and have strong resale values— all that has everything to do with the upgrades. The promise of upgrades is the very reason dCS has gained momentum and they just followed through with 2.0 and Apex.

I don’t feel the DAVE is due for an update anytime soon but hopefully Rob Watts and Chord use the time to iron out an upgrade program and start printing return shipping labels.

My Blu 2 and Dave were sent back to the Chord authorized service center a few months ago. I know they upgraded some things and replaced boards etc. I am glad I sent it in because it also fixed some quirks with Blu2. It’s been flawless since it came back and sounding better than before. I’m not sure what the changes were, but it’s an option worth exploring if you are so inclined.

I’m not sure it’s worth upgrading Blu2 or Dave for Chord. Both feel like end of the product cycle type designs to me. That’s not to say they are obsolete. They are both brilliant designs in many ways that should last a long time. As an example, my Quad 2805 was based on a design by Peter Walker way back in 1963. You’d think in 60 years, we would have figured out how to make a better loudspeaker. But the Quads have stood the test of time. No one has yet designed a better loudspeaker in my opinion if you restrict yourself to home listening in normal rooms. Speakers that can reproduce 120 dB are great for studios and rock concerts, but no one wants that in a living room. Yes, it would be nice to reproduce 20 Hz if you are into organ music, but aside from the fact that an organ sounds more beautiful in a church than it ever will in a home environment, one can always add subwoofers. Quads are still the lowest distortion speakers on the market and they are phase true and reproduce a square wave perfectly. Don’t try that with your moving coil.

Well designed products like the Dave or the Quad 63 can last a long time and are not easily replaced. I would add the vinyl record and the compact disc to this list, which are going strong still after many decades. Yes streaming is the king now, but each time my playlist disappears on Qobuz, I’m so happy I kept my CDs, which don’t vanish into thin air.

 

[adrianm]

I appreciate that Rob Watts has long development cycles and he does not design dishonest products with planned obsolescence. I have long said Chord needs to explore firmware/small component upgrades for their DAVE rather than releasing a successor ahead of a major recession. The upgrade strategy has been successful for dCS, PS Audio, Schiit and many others. Lets consider Mike Moffat’s flagship Yggdrasil which was released nearly 10 years ago as an example, it is not thought of as aging product, they rarely appear for sale, and have strong resale values— all that has everything to do with the upgrades. The promise of upgrades is the very reason dCS has gained momentum and they just followed through with 2.0 and Apex.

I don’t feel the DAVE is due for an update anytime soon but hopefully Rob Watts and Chord use the time to iron out an upgrade program and start printing return shipping labels.

I've been considering a dCS dac for a while, but their business strategy is a major turn off. With the Lina dac you're at the bottom of their food chain, software wise, a cut down Bartok with the mapper from 4 years ago,. And do they at least sell it cheaper? No, they increase the prices of everything else by 30%.
"Pay us 12k and in 2-3 years, we will give you the software we have today for the people that paid more than you". That's what upgradeable means with dCS, unless you buy the top tier products, you're a second class citizen.
As you can see with Apex, if you want a real upgrade (not just messing around with software filters) it costs 9k for a new board. Quite generous of them.
I'm pretty sure the M-scaler X will be less than that, and that's a new piece of hardware. If you actually want that. I don't see myself moving away from Hqplayer for another M-scaler.
That said, every time I add a new "improvement" to Dave, like the generator I keep plugged into my mains filter, or the Innuos Phoenix i plan on auditioning, I'm amazed It can still get better and simultaneously frustrated it wasn't like this out of the factory gate.
At least dCS throws you some crumbs for free after a few years. That's pretty much where the difference in approaches. It might end up being preferable to endlessly messing around with Dave though.

 

[iDesign]

I've been considering a dCS dac for a while, but their business strategy is a major turn off. With the Lina dac you're at the bottom of their food chain, software wise, a cut down Bartok with the mapper from 4 years ago,. And do they at least sell it cheaper? No, they increase the prices of everything else by 30%.
"Pay us 12k and in 2-3 years, we will give you the software we have today for the people that paid more than you". That's what upgradeable means with dCS, unless you buy the top tier products, you're a second class citizen.
As you can see with Apex, if you want a real upgrade (not just messing around with software filters) it costs 9k for a new board. Quite generous of them.
I'm pretty sure the M-scaler X will be less than that, and that's a new piece of hardware. If you actually want that. I don't see myself moving away from Hqplayer for another M-scaler.
That said, every time I add a new "improvement" to Dave, like the generator I keep plugged into my mains filter, or the Innuos Phoenix i plan on auditioning, I'm amazed It can still get better and simultaneously frustrated it wasn't like this out of the factory gate.
At least dCS throws you some crumbs for free after a few years. That's pretty much where the difference in approaches. It might end up being preferable to endlessly messing around with Dave though.

Agreed. And as I wrote earlier, I don’t think the market is there for a $30,000 Lina headphone system. Given the increasing number of products from China with excellent technical measurements and ultra low-prices, the elite novelty of Chord and dCS may be running out. We’re already seeing the audiophile market move in that direction.

 

[wasupdog]

Agree there is a very limited market for a $30k headphone setup. I feel like we're already being pushed in the past few years but we've disproven to ourselves that there wouldn't be a market for $6k headphones. On top of that there have been recent price raises recently so we'll see how it goes heading into some sort of market slowdown in the near future. Fwiw I did used to own a Dave so not just randomly jumping in here.

 

[adrianm]

Agreed. And as I wrote earlier, I don’t think the market is there for a $30,000 Lina headphone system. In fact, I also don’t think it’s there for Apex or a Choral range M Scaler X within the “headfi” community given the increasing number of products from China with excellent technical measurements and ultra low-prices.

Even if people would buy it for the status/peace of mind that they have the pinnacle of what can be achieved today for that price, I would have expected a dac section similar to the Vivaldi "purpose build" (as they say) for headphones for that price. Instead it's Bartok leftovers. They could at least have made it prettier.
You're better off with a used Bartok, or Rossini, since people say that's where dCS stuff starts to "get good" anyway. It feels like a bad move however you slice it. I'm sure they're counting on their huge margins allowing them to offer significant discounts in case people aren't lining up.

 

[Sampajanna]

I appreciate that Rob Watts has long development cycles and he does not design dishonest products with planned obsolescence. I have long said Chord needs to explore firmware/small component upgrades for their DAVE rather than releasing a successor ahead of a major recession. The upgrade strategy has been successful for dCS, PS Audio, Schiit and many others. Lets consider Mike Moffat’s flagship Yggdrasil which was released nearly 10 years ago as an example, it is not thought of as aging product, they rarely appear for sale, and have strong resale values— all that has everything to do with the upgrades. The promise of upgrades is the very reason dCS has gained momentum and they just followed through with 2.0 and Apex.

I don’t feel the DAVE is due for an update anytime soon but hopefully Rob Watts and Chord use the time to iron out an upgrade program and start printing return shipping labels.

In a way, the community is already creating these upgrades on its own. I think the HMS +Mscaler combo has more aftermarket mods than any other out there. Chord should just hire Sean Jacobs IMHO.

 

[iDesign]

In a way, the community is already creating these upgrades on its own. I think the HMS +Mscaler combo has more aftermarket mods than any other out there. Chord should just hire Sean Jacobs IMHO.

Agreed. There is plenty of user feedback in terms of simple firmware/hardware revisions that Chord can incorporate into an affordable upgrade program. It would drive customer retention, sales, and media coverage. They could also add a recertification/extended warranty as part of the process to further entice owners to upgrade. With supply chain issues and a bear stock market, Chord should find a way. They would just need to get the pricing low enough otherwise it would fail fast.

But lets not get away from the fact that Chord's present line of DACs are all outstanding.

 

[muski]

In a way, the community is already creating these upgrades on its own. I think the HMS +Mscaler combo has more aftermarket mods than any other out there. Chord should just hire Sean Jacobs IMHO.

A 100% agree. That's basically what Innuos did...

 

[ZappaMan]

Agreed. There is plenty of user feedback in terms of simple firmware/hardware revisions that Chord can incorporate into an affordable upgrade program. It would drive customer retention, sales, and media coverage. They could also add a recertification/extended warranty as part of the process to further entice owners to upgrade. With supply chain issues and a bear stock market, Chord should find a way. They would just need to get the pricing low enough otherwise it would fail fast.

But lets not get away from the fact that Chord's present line of DACs are all outstanding.

Maybe we should ask chord to reply to us here, maybe John franks, and ask him publicly if chord would indeed invest some money into a program to upgrade Dave firmware?

It supposes that the firmware improvements are beneficial or that advances Rob makes can be - in time - shared with the rest of the family line - even if a new dac got exclusive use of that intellectual property for a few years.

Personally I hope to not buy another dac as money does not grow on trees.

The upgrade itself could generate revenue too, it needed be free.

 

[Reactcore]

Maybe we should ask chord to reply to us here, maybe John franks, and ask him publicly if chord would indeed invest some money into a program to upgrade Dave firmware?

It supposes that the firmware improvements are beneficial or that advances Rob makes can be - in time - shared with the rest of the family line - even if a new dac got exclusive use of that intellectual property for a few years.

Personally I hope to not buy another dac as money does not grow on trees.

The upgrade itself could generate revenue too, it needed be free.

Software updates are generally to work out bugs and optimise the operation of the hardware. Which in Dave's case is'nt modular.. there no easy exchangable parts inside except PSU.

But there might be something to upgrade in the WTA and noise shapers since this is carefully tweaked programming.

We could kindly try to ask Rob if he actually went further on the Dave 'platform' after its release.. If Chord will allow him to..

Daves WTA1 is already replaced by HMS if used.. and will be again with the future Choral HMS.

Thats why i asked him if he can expand the noise shapers in the unoccupied space if HMS is used.. like a menu setting..

 

[miketlse]

First time I have spotted this page on Chords website.
Presumably pro audio (including Davina) will be the next focus, rather than domestic Dacs.

 

[helljudgement]

Dave has been surpassed nowadays

Personally I'm not too sure if that is the case. Rather than surpassed I'd say it's more to do with the competition catching up in the last few years. Good design will stand the test of time. The original Yggy and Wavedream series of dacs which were released around that time and still stands with some of the best dac in their respective price range today. I'd much rather manufacturers releases something that is provide huge improvements every 8-10 years than a small revision every 2-3 years just to match the competition's new releases.

 

[adrianm]

Daves WTA1 is already replaced by HMS if used.. and will be again with the future Choral HMS.

Thats why i asked him if he can expand the noise shapers in the unoccupied space if HMS is used.. like a menu setting..

As does Hqplayer via SRC-DX That's the upgrade i went with and couldn't be happier. +Power upgrades. I do intend on auditioning Lina for a comparison when I get a chance though.