CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[audio_1]

The longer answer is on my posts on the Grimm MU1 thread at AS.

The shorter answer is that, as part of my downsizing objective, I compared my strongly modded NUC + HMS + a mountain of cable/box spaghetti vs MU1 with a single AES cable. HMS running at 16FS, MU1 running at 4FS. The MU1 won easily. At the time, I stated that this was probably more to do with the NUC than with any limitation of the HMS itself. The BNC and USB cables were of very high quality and, sadly, also very expensive.

I also tried the HMS between MU1 and DAVE, effectively upscaling from 4FS to 16FS (also tried 1FS to 16FS). I had the spdif/RCA/BNC cable limitation in order to do this test. In this particular chain, the HMS didn't improve the SQ and in fact seemed to slightly degrade it, but it could have been a cable limitation.

My objective was achieved: I significantly reduced my cable/box spaghetti whilst increasing SQ.
I don't care what the Opto-Dx can do, as that just increases cable/box spaghetti.
I don't care what other things I could have done to make the HMS sing better in this chain. I'd spent over a year carefully tweaking my NUC + HMS chain to what I considered to be a high standard. I had the components I had and I got the result I got. YMMV.

Certainly the MU1 is a much tidier solution, than the 8 boxes, 4 BNC cables, 2 USB cables and 2 optical cables that I have! 1. Intel NUC running Roon, 2. Ferrum Hypos power supply, 3. Intona 7055-B (full capacitive and galvanic isolation), 4. Blu2, 5. Opto DXT, 6. IFI Ipower, 7. Opto DXR, 8. Farad Super3. I also have separate power conditioners, dedicated power supply cables (routed as far apart as possible in the attic) and Gigawatt MCBs in the consumer unit for the digital and analogue parts of the system. With the above and the Dave and power amps physically separated by over 3 metres, there is absolute no RF noise or brightness in my system. The spaghetti as well as eliminating RF noise also enables positioning only the Dave and power amps between the loudspeakers and the digital source components at the side of my listening room.
Hopefully the new Choral Mscaler will have optical connections so that in future it can be optically connected to Dave 2.

 

[audio_1]

I tried to replace my Aquarius with the Intona Usb Isolator

Which Intona Usb Isolator did you try? Only the 7055-B provides full capacitive and galvanic isolation as far as I know. Distance is the only other thing you didn't try.

 

[adrianm]

After many many comparisons of USB streaming against redbook CD with my CEC TL0, using both my Dave/Blu2 and with a Lampi server/Pacific DAC, I have come to agree with Rob’s assessment. USB simply sucks. It just doesn’t have the life or verve that SPDIF based Redbook CD has using a top notch transport. I don‘t understand why, I’m guessing it’s all the extra preprocessing that you have to do with USB asynchronous protocol. I was hoping Lampi’s own DSD SuperKomputer with its huge linear power supply might narrow the gap. It has not. Folks who own the ultra Uber Taiko Extreme 100 pound server with its highly customized USB card say it’s the bees knees, but that’s a made to order highly pricey server with a long turnaround time, especially these days with supply chain problems. How about the Innuous USB reclocker? Anyone have good luck with that? I like the convenience of streaming and the vast pool of music, but I wish it didn’t sound so compressed, especially through Roon.

I definitely agree that Chord's USB implementation at least, is terrible. Which is why the SRC-DX is borderline magical. Yes, that's the reason why I went down the USB path though, is due to it being the only format that allows me to output up-sampled 24 bit 768 khz data to the SRC-DX.
Upsampling+ noise reduction is the only "cure" I've found for the compression you're describing. I was close to getting the Innuos, but I'm very skeptical that what it does so well is due to re-clocking. USB audio just doesn't work like SPDIF. Any improvements people hear are most likely due to the clean power provided by the Phoenix. Even if it did somehow matter, the SRC-DX's clock would override that when converting USB to dual SPDIF.
Add to that Dave's very high jitter resistance, and the Intona USB isolator + mains filter makes more sense. I've also tried SOTM TX Ultra USB + Farad LPSU our of the same conditioner in front of the SRC-DX, and frankly all it did was add noise. It sounded much worse, which is why I now prefer a chain with as few PSU's as possible, so I've given up on auditioning the Phoenix. I believe @edwardsean can offer a counter-argument here though.
I realize having a PC in your system might not work for everyone, which is why paying a premium for a tidy solution like the Grimm, or another up-sampling streamer might make sense. The Grimm seems overpriced and underpowered Imo, but they were first out the gate, so that counts for something. This is clearly the direction the industry is going, however I would wait for more capable solutions.
Why I would prefer the Lumin (besides being 5x cheaper, though that's their entry level offering) is due to it being able to support much higher sampling rates. I wouldn't be surprised if it could beat the Grimm in combination with an SRC-DX. This of course depends on the quality of the up-sampling algorithms used by each, but I'm definitely auditioning one as soon as possible.
Chord isn't the only game in town anymore, and using HQP confirmed that the software is what makes most of the difference(for good or bad), not our fiddling around.

 

[adrianm]

Which Intona Usb Isolator did you try? Only the 7055-B provides full capacitive and galvanic isolation as far as I know. Distance is the only other thing you didn't try.

7055-C. There is no mention of functional differences I could find. They say it's better suited for low-noise applications
"
What is the difference from the other USB isolators?
The 7055-B version support a high 5kV signal and power isolation and 20kV ESD protection. For audio usage you generally don’t need as much as 5kV so you can consider the 7055-C model that is similar to the 7055-B but also supports SuperSpeed and has a lower ultra low noise DC supply.
"

 

[adrianm]

Distance is the only other thing you didn't try.

I did, my M-scaler is now 10km + away with another owner

 

[Somatic]

Looking to get a Dave. Wondering if you guys have any independent dealers I can get one for a good price … please PM me.

I know of one but wondering if that’s the best deal I can get. Appreciate any help. Thanks.

 

[SteveHulk]

Looking to get a Dave. Wondering if you guys have any independent dealers I can get one for a good price … please PM me.

I know of one but wondering if that’s the best deal I can get. Appreciate any help. Thanks.

The DAVE is built like a tank and, save something truly awful happening to it, is more or less indestructible.

You should be able to buy a second hand unit with confidence in a private sale at a good price.

 

[Somatic]

I'm exclusively headphones, because, as I mentioned, we all have "what life allows." I would very much like to be a speakers guy, but the people around me don't want that for me. It is to my great sadness that they matter more to me than audio.



I can't emphasize this enough. There is no "sliver bullet" to bring Dave to Bartok level. Maybe, the Taiko Extreme if you have the means? I understand the desire for there to be a simple solution. That simple solution is the Bartok. I pinned a lot of hope on the Sean Jacobs power supply to be that–because it's fabulous–but it only contributed its part. To be clear I have the DC3 with Mundorfs and silver wiring upgrade. I'm sure the DC4 will fare better, but it is twice the price going from $3K to $6K. Even then, I would bet that the DC4 would still not do it. Because, that's only one end of the equation. You have to address the digital side as well.

If I ended up burying this point let me unearth it again. The Bartok is that good. It is a staggeringly beautiful sound and a true AIO in the way Dave is not. I'm speaking again strictly from a headphone perspective.

As to the financial part, I'm with you, I looked at the Dave initially as a value proposition against the Bartok, only to spend myself way past the Bartok. It was initially, "It's simple, the Dave is $6K cheaper than Bartok." A few pieces of gear later, "The Dave is $4K cheaper." A few pieces of gear later, "Okay, the Dave is still $2K cheaper." A few pieces of gear later, "Mm..., they're about equal." A few pieces of gear later, "What's happening to me?"

So, eventually, I had to back up and reassess, because the value proposition no longer applied–at all.

It's part of why I drafted the review, to save some people some trouble if I could, and encourage others to get into trouble if they so chose. If I started out with stock Dave and stock Bartok, I'd be listening to a Bartok right now, blissfully ignorant of what Dave is capable of, and I do mean "blissfully." I didn't set out to try and build a system that could better the Bartok for me. It became that in a blind frantic fumbling tumbling upward. I feel it would be better for most folks to have what you need to make informed choices earlier on.

Thanks for the awesome review. If one plans to use the stock Dave directly with a more sensitive headphone, such as T + A Solitaire P is this the best combo to get end game transparency? In your review it seemed you liked Bartok more but in the end you went with Dave because it was more lifelike? You mentioned it was skeletal as well? Debating on getting Bartok vs Dave. I don’t think I would get Mscaler, wave cables, lps etc

 

[Triode User]

Looking to get a Dave. Wondering if you guys have any independent dealers I can get one for a good price … please PM me.

I know of one but wondering if that’s the best deal I can get. Appreciate any help. Thanks.

Consider a second hand Dave. i would have no hesitation in buying one (in fact I did and have been very happy with it).

 

[adrianm]

Thanks for the awesome review. If one plans to use the stock Dave directly with a more sensitive headphone, such as T + A Solitaire P is this the best combo to get end game transparency?

FWIW, I do believe that's true. A couple of week back I thought the HPA4+Dave were better than direct Dave in some respects (maybe very slightly larger soundstage, a bit tighter bass) , but really not worth adding in the end.
I went with the Meze Elite over the LCD-5, as I found its slightly thicker sound (Not Empyrean thick) and musicality played well with Dave.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Thanks for the awesome review. If one plans to use the stock Dave directly with a more sensitive headphone, such as T + A Solitaire P is this the best combo to get end game transparency? In your review it seemed you liked Bartok more but in the end you went with Dave because it was more lifelike? You mentioned it was skeletal as well? Debating on getting Bartok vs Dave. I don’t think I would get Mscaler, wave cables, lps etc

If transparency is the sole thing you prioritize, I'd say yes. I've tested quite a few sensitive headphones with high quality amps and in cases there are other aspects of sound that were superior. But in any event, unless I had those amps on hand for use with harder to drive headphones, I would just stick with the Dave. It performs really well with efficient headphones, so it just makes it not really worth the bother/price imo.

 

[Somatic]

Don’t buy expensive BNC cables, the key are ferrits, so just good quality BNC and around 20 or more ferrits.

Any cables you
Recommend?

 

[chesebert]

Don’t buy expensive BNC cables, the key are ferrits, so just good quality BNC and around 20 or more ferrits.

This sounds like a bunch of BS to me, to be honest. How the heck do these things reduce EMI without corresponding capacitors to create LPF? Someone enlighten me here.

 

[iDesign]

Don’t buy expensive BNC cables, the key are ferrits, so just good quality BNC and around 20 or more ferrits.

Agreed. I found that the expensive BNC cables with ferrites popularized in this forum were improperly constructed and caused significant problems with my DAVE. The $7.49 original equipment 2m Pro Signal RG59 cables with ferrites yielded significantly better performance.

 

[griff500]

Agreed. I found that the expensive BNC cables with ferrites popularized in this forum were improperly constructed and caused significant problems with my DAVE. The $7.49 original equipment 2m Pro Signal RG59 cables with ferrites yielded significantly better performance.

Would you care to share how they are 'improperly constructed'?

Which ferrites did you use and how did you determine that performance was significantly better?