CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[esimms86]

Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed answer Romaz. I also have a Sonicorbiter SE and HE1000 along with a StefanArt-modded HD800. A all I need to do now is to insert Dave into my signal chain.

 

[U2nite]

Hopefully they will be relatively affordable.

 
+1
 
Yes hope the new Dave Dac + Amp will be relatively affordable. 

 

[romaz]

   
A few different options to choose from, when it comes to contact plugs, so i have the same question what type of 3 pin xlr romaz is using ?

Peter recommended the Xhadow XLRs and I have not regretted this recommendation.  They are a $160 upgrade.
 
Here is a photo with those Xhadow XLRs on one end and 2.5mm connectors on the other end for the HE-1000.  
 

 
 
This cable in a 3 meter length cost $2,660 with the Xhadow XLRs, almost as much as my HE-1000 and while this was a very tough pill for me to swallow when I first ordered it, looking back, it has been one of the best things I've done.  I no longer consider the HE-1000 complete without them and any headphone I've connected them to (with adapters) has benefited.  Any brightness or harsh glare that was present before is gone.  Enhanced detail and yet you're never aware of it in an analytical sense because the presentation is so smooth and effortless.  Unlike other silver cables that can sound thin and dry, the Silver Spore does not.  They are extremely quiet with zero microphonics.  And before you start thinking Peter is getting rich charging this much for a headphone cable, trying pricing UP-OCC grade silver, the purest continuous (not stranded) cast silver you can buy, and you will be shocked how much the raw materials costs.  There are supposedly only 5 companies in the world where you can buy genuine single crystal OCC wire so be wary of counterfeiters.  As you start to compare other cables, also be wary of what dielectric is used.  Stay away from teflon (PTFE) or polypropylene as a primary dielectric if you can unless you want a "plasticky" sound (they can be ok as a secondary dielectric).  Natural dielectrics, like cotton, are ideal, and all of this applies not just to headphone cables but also analog interconnects.  DHC uses cotton as a primary dielectric in their best cables but not their lower end cables.  For interconnects, DHC makes a Silver Spore interconnect with all of these traits.  Antipodes and Entreq are examples of other interconnect manufacturers that use cotton dielectrics.  I'm sure there are others.
 
If you own a DAVE, sell your expensive music server and expensive USB and optical cables and consider the best headphone cable and interconnect you can afford.  There are really so few other things to consider with the DAVE which still amazes me.  Unfortunately, with DHC, there are people who placed an order with Peter in October and they're still waiting.  I believe he is a one-man operation and so be prepared to be patient.  It will be like ordering a BHSE amp from Justin Wilson.  It's the price of dealing with a perfectionist.

 

[Christer]

Had an extensive listening, comparing my HeadTrip's sound vs Dave's headphone output:



The DAVE hang on good down to volume 11 = normal listening level, and then it get more stressed out on vol 7-5 , so when it comes to the more bass dynamic heavy parts in the song DAVE does break some svett, but on lower levels like vol 12-17 with the Abyss, it sounding so smooth with details appering that i dont even think the mastering producer have ever heard before. You also find the technical miss outs flaws, unwanted distortion in the song from the studio.



But i do find you need a separate amp if you want listen to more dynamic music , classical music with high DR on little higher than mid-high level .

You loose just a slight bit transparency but in the same time it sounds more muscular , where the voices and bass guitar are deeper.

Compared to Hugo , DAVE is more calm and smooth in the presentation so you can hear DAVE is more powerful than the Hugo, and it is a fairly big difference in btw!

So a separate amp if you own the Abyss or He-6 is my recommendation, but you would be happy with only the DAVE alone also!

And in the same time you have two different sound tones from the same DAC, so you can just pick and choose depending on the material and your own mood.

The deep fluid bass , perspective , timing , detail resolution spaciousness, musicallity , dept and 3D is mentally good, and are the leading key words that describes the sound of DAVE, or we can use one word:
Ultra Transparency .

With cross-feed filter set to on 1,2 or 3:

Here i find great reduction in resolution and spaciousness when you activate cross feed filtering, i do not like it so much, maybe with other headphones but not with the Abyss.

Just on some tracks i find it to be usefull, but most of the time i have it set to off.

Without cross-feed filtering i can easy pinpoint where diffrent instruments are located in the studio or in the concert hall, which is impossible with croos-feed when everything is placed in the center of the soundstage.

World best DAC at the moment, and i hope for a good time to come.

I  never use crossfeed with my Hugo.  I have tried it but I too find that it messes up soundstage with simply mic'd recordings.
If basses are either on the right side or the left  of the stage in the hall, I simply can't understand why one would want to remix them into the center or all over the place as crossfeed seems to do.
My take on crossfeed is that it is artificial, less transparent and a  clear step away from how the engineer/producer intended, and not at all accurate to how things sounded live in the hall.
Probably fine for pop and rock where you have no reference to live anyway . But for classical a clear no from  me.

 

[romaz]

 
What speakers would be efficient enough to be driven by only 20 watts, or even 70?
 

 
If you're an electrostatic guy, then low power amps are probably foreign to you.  Most SET tube amps put out only a few watts.  With 45 tubes, you're lucky to get 1-2 watts.  With 845 tubes, you can get to as high as 15 watts (sometimes 30 watts) but then you've got an oven that will heat your whole house.  Paired with the right high efficiency speaker (>90dB sensitivity), many will tell you just how magical this can sound because there is a delicacy and nuance that is presented that other speakers that require high power can never produce.  These types of speakers are not for large scale orchestral pieces played at reference levels but for smaller ensembles (string quartet) or intimate vocals.  
 
Here are two of my favorite high efficiency speakers.  They can be driven well with only 2 watts but sound great with more and they are not desktop or nearfield speakers but rather large floor standers:
 
Trenner and Friedl Pharoahs (made in Austria)
 

 
Omega Super Alnico XRS (made in USA)
 

 
In some ways, these types of speakers can reveal the qualities of the DAVE better than multi-crossover speakers with stiff cones like your more typical B&W or Focal.
 
Ironically, Chord's 70 watt monoblocks will be too much for these high efficiency floor standers and are better geared for certain book shelf speakers like the KEF LS50.

 

[romaz]

The DAVE hang on good down to volume 11 = normal listening level, and then it get more stressed out on vol 7-5 , so when it comes to the more bass dynamic heavy parts in the song DAVE does break some svett, but on lower levels like vol 12-17 with the Abyss, it sounding so smooth with details appering that i dont even think the mastering producer have ever heard before. You also find the technical miss outs flaws, unwanted distortion in the song from the studio.

But i do find you need a separate amp if you want listen to more dynamic music , classical music with high DR on little higher than mid-high level .
 

 
I found this to be the case also.  On the Abyss, with Tchaikovsy's 1812 Overture, I was able to clip the DAVE as the canon's exploded.  Before that point, it sounded very very good.  This is the quandary with the DAVE and the Abyss or HE-6 but this problem should be resolved with Chord's upcoming 20 watt amp and I have a hard time believing that any 20 watt solid state speaker amp will be very expensive.  I hope I'm not wrong.

 

[bmichels]

  .....  Unfortunately, with DHC, there are people who placed an order with Peter in October and they're still waiting.  I believe he is a one-man operation and so be prepared to be patient.  It will be like ordering a BHSE amp from Justin Wilson.  It's the price of dealing with a perfectionist.

 
I just ordered a DHC cable and a BHSE.  So.... I will need to be "double patient " 

 

[Beolab]

I had the same struggle with the Hugo , and most of the times had it set to off , or to the green setting.

What cross-feed filter setting are you using mostly Jazz?

 

[Kamil21]

Its just the first model.

Power is fine for near field monitoring, and its transportable, only a bit bigger than Hugo, so applications are are for office, hotel, small room, TV, and when headphones need enormous power.

Other amps will become available at much larger power as I said earlier.

Rob

Way to go Rob! Can't wait.

Will it also be battery powered?

 

[Beolab]

Sounding very interesting if it as small as a Hugo. Will it have a 6,3mm headphone output beside speaker outputs also ?

Price point like 1500 Euro maybe .

 

[Christer]

   
I found this to be the case also.  On the Abyss, with Tchaikovsy's 1812 Overture, I was able to clip the DAVE as the canon's exploded.  Before that point, it sounded very very good.  This is the quandary with the DAVE and the Abyss or HE-6 but this problem should be resolved with Chord's upcoming 20 watt amp and I have a hard time believing that any 20 watt solid state speaker amp will be very expensive.  I hope I'm not wrong.

At the price-point asked for DAVE or any other HI FI product above a few thousand dollars I EXPECT full compatibility and ENOUGH POWER to drive any and I mean ANY dynamic or planar headphone on the market!
Anything else is a design fault IMO!
I can understand if products like Hugo or Mojo will not deliver all the power needed for large scale symphonic music  at fff .They are after all intended for the portable market. But there is no excuse for having to add a headphone amp to a product like DAVE with any other headphones than electrostats.
IMO absolutely no excuse!
Sorry to be blunt. 
I was surprised and disappointed  that Rob had not even tested his Dacs with  popular planar headphones like HE1000.
I am not a fanboy of any designer or company, neither in the recording industry nor the consumer market.
IMO Rob had all the time he needed to test his supposed   STATE OF THE ART product DAVE with any high end  headphone on the market instead of the obviously very limited choices he used during the development and fine tuning of DAVE. 
With classical music sufficient power is absolutely essential!
Ok Tchaikovsky's  1812 is exceptional even in the genre of classical music and cannons are not generally to be  found in any orchestra.
But the dynamic range of large scale symphonic and Operatic music is FAR GREATER than with popular music which in most cases is severally  lacking in dynamic range. The dynamic range in basically any of Shostakovich's symphonies  for example, ranges from barely audible, to almost painfully loud!! 
That said,I was very  impressed by DAVE during the few hours I auditioned it.Two good recordings of the 10th and 15th are the live 10th from BSO that I already recommended ,and the 24/192 pcm one of the 15th from  the German label Acousense. But if it turns out that I would need to buy an extra  amp to drive any dynamic headphone of MY CHOICE, with DAVE I would  feel cheated, not happy that they are adding a headphone amp to their product line, as some here seem to be.

 

[Frank I]

I have the review sample f the DAVE and been using it for 3 weeks solid and it sounds spectacular. The DAC is among the veyr bets I have heard. I will be using lot of  wide range classical recordings this week with the DAVE amp and see what the amplifier is capable of performing at.  I am most impressed with the DAC using it  both with my other reference amplifiers and 2channel listening.  The unit is musical and tonality is spot on.  Rob Watts has done it again with another reference equality product. The folks at Chord continue to inspire with there musicality and analog sounding digital products which always make me smile.  Rob is one of the brightest and gifted designers in the world today. I will cry when this DAC leaves my listening room.

 

[m0nster]

I have the review sample f the DAVE and been using it for 3 weeks solid and it sounds spectacular. The DAC is among the veyr bets I have heard. I will be using lot of  wide range classical recordings this week with the DAVE amp and see what the amplifier is capable of performing at.  I am most impressed with the DAC using it  both with my other reference amplifiers and 2channel listening.  The unit is musical and tonality is spot on.  Rob Watts has done it again with another reference equality product. The folks at Chord continue to inspire with there musicality and analog sounding digital products which always make me smile.  Rob is one of the brightest and gifted designers in the world today. I will cry when this DAC leaves my listening room.

Don't cry because of what you lost, smile because of what you heard instead!
Thank you for your impressions, could you post a link to your review once you have finished it? Would love to read it, though I am pretty certain that it will make me cry until I can afford a DAVE :-D

 

[Christer]

   
If you're an electrostatic guy, then low power amps are probably foreign to you.  Most SET tube amps put out only a few watts.  With 45 tubes, you're lucky to get 1-2 watts.  With 845 tubes, you can get to as high as 15 watts (sometimes 30 watts) but then you've got an oven that will heat your whole house.  Paired with the right high efficiency speaker (>90dB sensitivity), many will tell you just how magical this can sound because there is a delicacy and nuance that is presented that other speakers that require high power can never produce.  These types of speakers are not for large scale orchestral pieces played at reference levels but for smaller ensembles (string quartet) or intimate vocals.  
 
Here are two of my favorite high efficiency speakers.  They can be driven well with only 2 watts but sound great with more and they are not desktop or nearfield speakers but rather large floor standers:
 
Trenner and Friedl Pharoahs (made in Austria)
 

 
Omega Super Alnico XRS (made in USA)
 

 
In some ways, these types of speakers can reveal the qualities of the DAVE better than multi-crossover speakers with stiff cones like your more typical B&W or Focal.
 
Ironically, Chord's 70 watt monoblocks will be too much for these high efficiency floor standers and are better geared for certain book shelf speakers like the KEF LS50.

It is not that they are foreign to me I used to have a pair of really Huge several hundred litres three way horn speakers bigger than coffins , but easy to drive with a 30 watts per channel  class A amp.
Impressive in many ways, But  the problem was they were as basically every  multi crossover  horn and box speakers very coloured in the midrange .
But bass from the 15" woofers in their huge horn was the most powerful and deep-reaching I have had in my home.
Crystal Clear's direct cut LP of  Bach's Toccata and Fugue among much else via those monsters was truly impressive.
Nowadays I find electrostats the most transparent  and uncoloured speakers I have heard for classical music.
Magnetostatics come close. But I prefer electrostats for their even higher resolution.Imho the same applies with headphones.
Electrostats are basically a reversed microphone.
Talking about speakers in general most have much higher distortion levels than anything else  in most systems. 
A transparent DAC or amp in combination with a compromised ordinary multi crossover box speaker will still sound bad.
By the way the speakers in your photos remind me of the cheaper speakers a friend of mine used to build and sell . But they were, although even easier to drive than my  huge horn   speakers, even more coloured and unsuitable for classical music.
These look as if they box will add a lot of colouration too?

 

[Beolab]

At the price-point asked for DAVE or any other HI FI product above a few thousand dollars I EXPECT full compatibility and ENOUGH POWER to drive any and I mean ANY dynamic or planar headphone on the market!
Anything else is a design fault IMO!
I can understand if products like Hugo or Mojo will not deliver all the power needed for large scale symphonic music  at fff .They are after all intended for the portable market. But there is no excuse for having to add a headphone amp to a product like DAVE with any other headphones than electrostats.
IMO absolutely no excuse!
Sorry to be blunt. 
I was surprised and disappointed  that Rob had not even tested his Dacs with  popular planar headphones like HE1000.
I am not a fanboy of any designer or company, neither in the recording industry nor the consumer market.
IMO Rob had all the time he needed to test his supposed   STATE OF THE ART product DAVE with any high end  headphone on the market instead of the obviously very limited choices he used during the development and fine tuning of DAVE. 
With classical music sufficient power is absolutely essential!
Ok Tchaikovsky's  1812 is exceptional even in the genre of classical music and cannons are not generally to be  found in any orchestra.
But the dynamic range of large scale symphonic and Operatic music is FAR GREATER than with popular music which in most cases is severally  lacking in dynamic range. The dynamic range in basically any of Shostakovich's symphonies  for example, ranges from barely audible, to almost painfully loud!! 
That said,I was very  impressed by DAVE during the few hours I auditioned it.Two good recordings of the 10th and 15th are the live 10th from BSO that I already recommended ,and the 24/192 pcm one of the 15th from  the German label Acousense. But if it turns out that I would need to buy an extra  amp to drive any dynamic headphone of MY CHOICE, with DAVE I would  feel cheated, not happy that they are adding a headphone amp to their product line, as some here seem to be.

It is impossible to find another combined DAC/ Amp that can drive and control the Abyss / HE-1000 / He-6 like the Dave does what ever price range you look at.
Then the DAVE does not have an amp, so it is just the internal signal if i simplify it you are listening to, and that is remarkable how good it is, if you see it from that perspective.

Then i find it remarkable how close it is to my external amp with 17 Watts and much more on tap at 46 Ohm, it is not a huge difference, just better current drive from the amp, but there is a remarkably big size difference, the amp is like 7 times bigger in volume wise than DAVE.

Then i find it as a hobby to build the best possible hifi rigs that got great synergy , so if it was just one product you needed ( Dave ) to buy, then i find it pretty boring as a hobby , when it is also immune to noise , digital cables and sources.