[VladYR]

This is pretty much what everyone's been telling me. I'm a bit confused as to why you went for the Linn though. Especially with Katalyst dac. I thought its purpose was an all in one, why not just a dedicated streamer? Or an Innuos server since you need the functionality.
I'm curious as to what upgrade it would bring, or 2go2yu (but i just can't be bothered with bad software and instability) compared to my gaming pc via optical. I've found optical beats usb out of any source i've used so far, even macbook pro 16 on battery.
I was shocked at the difference when i upgraded my gaming pc psu from a lower end Corsair to a AX1000 with "japanese capacitors".3 times the price, but by far the cheapest upgrade i've made my system. Same when comparing Audirvana Studio to the Tidal app (even when running in exclusive mode and etc). So i'm now curious how much better a streamer would make things. I did audition the Auralic G1 vs my macbook pro as a source and was unimpressed, but that was in the store.

Well, for one I like its sound signature, particularly when paired with Dave and the M Scaler. While it can be an all in one sort of device if you add amplifier cartridges for speakers, Linn never really introduced one for headphone listening. That’s where Chord comes in. I know, it’s a ridiculously expensive proposition just for headphone based playback but for me it’s worth it. Going straight for the Innuos server could have worked but I’m looking in the long run where I will need a streamer that can tailor the sound to room acoustics, which are hardly ever ideal.

With regard to what it could bring in comparison to your gaming pc, that’s tough to tell given how we perceive sound differently. From a technical perspective, a much better and more accurate dac. USB can beat optical if implemented well. Innuos has certainly done it in a number of their products. You can find cheaper usb reclockers though.

Audirvana reduces usb noise considerably and focuses system resources towards music playback so it’s not surprising it sounds better than Tidal’s app. That’s besides the point that a good deal of Tidal’s current material is lossy. While some like Aurelic, I don’t buy Chinese made or Chinese designed equipment on principle. It’s of decidedly lower quality, not to mentioned that it’s intellectual property is of suspicious provenance. I don’t mind paying more for European or American brands. At the very least I would look at South Korean brands like Aurender.

 

[VladYR]

I found an Auralic Aries G2 provided a noticeable improvement. Innuos products are well-made and have good power supplies, plus the new app is supposed to be very good.

I am also a big believer in quality power and have spent a bit on Ansuz C2 distributor and power cables and found a noticeable improvement in sound quality, along with a decent ethernet cable and a PhoenixNET switch (you might be surprised how much difference a decent ethernet cable can make - I was).

Have you had a chance to try out the power switch by Ansuz? My dealer suggested I take one home when I’m over next time. This ought to be interesting.

 

[adrianm]

I know, it’s a ridiculously expensive proposition just for headphone based playback but for me it’s worth it.

I'm headed down the same road, no judgement, no regrets . I've also got other hobbies to fund though.

but I’m looking in the long run where I will need a streamer that can tailor the sound to room acoustics, which are hardly ever ideal.

This is the part i didn't understand in the context of headphone listening, but i guess you're planning on going down the speaker route as well.

While some like Aurelic, I don’t buy Chinese made or Chinese designed equipment on principle. It’s of decidedly lower quality, not to mentioned that it’s intellectual property is of suspicious provenance. I don’t mind paying more for European or American brands.

Same here on all accounts. I've auditioned a G1 and the casework and display were...unimpressive to say the least for that cost. My dealer suggested the Moon Mind 2 over the Innuous stuff since i don't need a server and other stuff they have though. So picking that up tomorrow for an audition over the weekend. Hopefully it will be better than the Naim. There's also a French company that's supposedly making some great streamers, 3d Lab, but open source software... If all else fails i'll probably audition a barebones Linn Selekt as well.

That’s besides the point that a good deal of Tidal’s current material is lossy.

It's pretty bad, the only reason i've used it so far is because no way to stream apple music to Dave conveniently , Qobuz is only available with a VPN, but that doesn't solve the issue of not being able to download the app from the Apple store (Airpods and Carplay), Spotify HD isn't out yet (makes me wonder if i should hold out on a streamer until it is), Amazon ultra hd music doesn't even work properly in exclusive mode 1 year after launch, so i'm kinda stuck with Tidal for a while. But them replacing all of my playlist with MQA versions is driving me insane. I don't even have to check the app, i can just hear every time that happens.

 

[VladYR]

I'm headed down the same road, no judgement, no regrets . I've also got other hobbies to fund though.

This is the part i didn't understand in the context of headphone listening, but i guess you're planning on going down the speaker route as well.

Same here on all accounts. I've auditioned a G1 and the casework and display were...unimpressive to say the least for that cost. My dealer suggested the Moon Mind 2 over the Innuous stuff since i don't need a server and other stuff they have though. So picking that up tomorrow for an audition over the weekend. Hopefully it will be better than the Naim. There's also a French company that's supposedly making some great streamers, 3d Lab, but open source software... If all else fails i'll probably audition a barebones Linn Selekt as well.

It's pretty bad, the only reason i've used it so far is because no way to stream apple music to Dave conveniently , Qobuz is only available with a VPN, but that doesn't solve the issue of not being able to download the app from the Apple store (Airpods and Carplay), Spotify HD isn't out yet (makes me wonder if i should hold out on a streamer until it is), Amazon ultra hd music doesn't even work properly in exclusive mode 1 year after launch, so i'm kinda stuck with Tidal for a while. But them replacing all of my playlist with MQA versions is driving me insane. I don't even have to check the app, i can just hear every time that happens.

I’m auditioning a number of devices some time next week. I’m kind of curious how they work with the Dave & M Scaler alone and with the streamer as a server. I can share some impressions about the Innuos if you’re interested.

I don’t know if you’ve been following the whole GoldenSound and Tidal scandal but basically MQA is seriously degraded cd quality or hd content that’s been mangled into that idiotic packaging that benefits only the firm behind MQA. There is a ton of high frequency noise that is audible contrary to what they’ve been saying. I mentioned this whole story to one of my dealers and he confirmed that whenever he listened to MQA streams he’d get headaches and listening fatigue.

With that in mind it might be worth considering a file server and local storage until either Qobuz expands into where you need it without resorting to VPN or Spotify HD coming out. Fortunately Linn has integration for both. I might actually consider Spotify when it does come out. I’m just not interested streaming lossy music for money. My current library is extensive enough to get by without repeats for quite a while. Lots of complete works of major composers and so much more other interesting material.

ps.

While I haven’t heard a barebones Linn Selekt, it’s possible to get the upgraded Katalyst dac after the purchase. From what I’ve been told it makes a significant difference. The cost isn’t significant relative to what either of us has spent so far on Dave and other snake oil products

If you do end up trying out the Linn, you can get by on using a router with a usb input as a server. I’m kind of doing that now. It’s not a perfect solution but it works. The organization of albums is kind of messy. They are alphabetical. Organizing it by artist makes a lot of the artwork missing. It beats using Audirvana though because I don’t really want to be involving the computer in playback anymore.

 

[adrianm]

While I haven’t heard a barebones Linn Selekt, it’s possible to get the upgraded Katalyst dac after the purchase. From what I’ve been told it makes a significant difference.

Why does the dac matter if you're only using it as a transport to the M-scaler?

With that in mind it might be worth considering a file server and local storage until either Qobuz expands into where you need it without resorting to VPN or Spotify HD coming out

I have no local files, though i might as well go down that road since i mostly listen to the same stuff over and over. I really hope Spotify HD sounds good, Tidal is terrible in discovery and SQ. I've been aware of how bad a format MQA is for 5 years now, but i've just avoided it. It's getting impossible though.

I can share some impressions about the Innuos if you’re interested.

Definitely.

It beats using Audirvana though because I don’t really want to be involving the computer in playback anymore.

I'm using my setup at my desk while working most of the time so for me adding another box on my crowded desk has to bring a really big improvement.

If you do end up trying out the Linn, you can get by on using a router with a usb input as a server.

Sounds like a good idea, finally a reason not to feel guilty about overspending on the router

 

[VladYR]

Why does the dac matter if you're only using it as a transport to the M-scaler?

I have no local files, though i might as well go down that road since i mostly listen to the same stuff over and over. I really hope Spotify HD sounds good, Tidal is terrible in discovery and SQ. I've been aware of how bad a format MQA is for 5 years now, but i've just avoided it. It's getting impossible though.

Definitely.

I'm using my setup at my desk while working most of the time so for me adding another box on my crowded desk has to bring a really big improvement.

Sounds like a good idea, finally a reason not to feel guilty about overspending on the router

It matters because it’s a source. There’s a significant difference between let’s say a Microsoft Surface Book running Audirvana and a Linn streamer. Both are computers at their essence but the accuracy of their dac chips vary significantly.

Local storage has some advantages over streaming. Little to no jitter induced timing errors (minus the network induced ones if you use the router as a source) although this can be mitigated by a number of audiophile switches. I’m bringing one home tomorrow for a trial. Even at 25% off retail it still costs around $2000 so who knows If it will be worth it. Extra virgin snake oil. You gotta love it

 

[atya35mm]

I have had a similar experience but have gone a step further (back, as some will say!) I spent a lot of time and money on various servers and streamers, I have owned Auralic aries, G1 and G2, Melco, Innuos and for the last 18 months I have owned an antipodes CX & EX, which I though, certainly at the time, was the best sounding to my ears for the money. I spent further money on Ethernet leads, Ethernet switches, reclockers, USB leads etc etc. I completely and utterly bought into the whole 'file based hi res content is superior' narrative. Then, after being forced to resort to a really cheap CD transport for a short period, (home network was down) it piqued my interest and after a few weeks I went out an bought a bottom of the range CEC, (roughly £2700 in UK) and I was faced with the very inconvenient truth, (literally inconvenient as I have to physically get up to change CDs!) that the CD just sounds better. I now have £17K worth of digital front end that I have relegated to a second system, it is actually quite heartbreaking as I am thinking how good my primary system could have been had I spent that money more wisely. There is no doubt that the convenience issue is huge, and I do miss the almost infinite choices I had whilst streaming, but despite all my efforts, try as I may, I just cannot get the server based solution to sound as good as a modest CD transport!

I have not tried the new Antipodes K50 or the Extreme Server, perhaps I would change my mind again if I did. I also have no doubt that in time the Server/Streamer solutions will reach their full potential and obliterate the humble CD transport, in my experience however we are just not at that point yet!

Good old humble cd transport! Curious, with the CX&EX, were you streaming or playing off local SSD files? I’ve got a CD ripped Norah Jones come away with me album (yes so cliche), and was just listening to it for a bit. Then switched to Qobuz uber mega high bit rate 192khz 24 bit stream of the same album, and boy I much prefer the CD rip. Again, my network connections aren’t optimised but the difference was quite clear. Couple of factors maybe, network optimisation not done so bad quality, or 192khz mastering not as good as cd mastering of 44.1khz etc.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Why does the dac matter if you're only using it as a transport to the M-scaler?

I have no local files, though i might as well go down that road since i mostly listen to the same stuff over and over. I really hope Spotify HD sounds good, Tidal is terrible in discovery and SQ. I've been aware of how bad a format MQA is for 5 years now, but i've just avoided it. It's getting impossible though.

Definitely.

I'm using my setup at my desk while working most of the time so for me adding another box on my crowded desk has to bring a really big improvement.

Sounds like a good idea, finally a reason not to feel guilty about overspending on the router

I kinda hate Tidal MQA files as well. I tend to always go with the Qobuz version instead. That is if Qobuz has the album. They do not have as large of a library compared to Tidal. Thus, Tidal is still a necessity.

Also, I got a new streamer/server (Antipodes K50), and I can verify that local files sound better than streamed ones. The K50 is very transparent in that regard, which is good and bad. It’s good if you have albums that are mixed and mastered properly, it sounds amazing. If the album is poorly mixed though, the flaws stick out too much.

I’ve been buying albums I like from Qobuz and Bandcamp just so I can use it locally.

Another rabbit hole is that using a Squeezlite player sounds better than using the default roon player. It makes no logical sense to me why software changes how albums sound, but for whatever reason they do alter the sound.

 

[BassicScience]

I kinda hate Tidal MQA files as well. I tend to always go with the Qobuz version instead. That is if Qobuz has the album. They do not have as large of a library compared to Tidal. Thus, Tidal is still a necessity.

Also, I got a new streamer/server (Antipodes K50), and I can verify that local files sound better than streamed ones. The K50 is very transparent in that regard, which is good and bad. It’s good if you have albums that are mixed and mastered properly, it sounds amazing. If the album is poorly mixed though, the flaws stick out too much.

I’ve been buying albums I like from Qobuz and Bandcamp just so I can use it locally.

Another rabbit hole is that using a Squeezlite player sounds better than using the default roon player. It makes no logical sense to me why software changes how albums sound, but for whatever reason they do alter the sound.

Not to get OT here, but why do you hate Tidal MQA files? I don't really love the concept, but I can't say I've noticed much of a difference in sound quality either way from non-MQA files. FWIW, I also don't notice any sonic difference between playing local FLAC files and streaming the same versions from Tidal. If it's the same bits, how would your DAC know where they originated?

 

[muski]

I can verify that local files sound better than streamed ones.

I felt the same way until I got a PhoenixNET. Sorry to tempt you

 

[burbster]

Good old humble cd transport! Curious, with the CX&EX, were you streaming or playing off local SSD files? I’ve got a CD ripped Norah Jones come away with me album (yes so cliche), and was just listening to it for a bit. Then switched to Qobuz uber mega high bit rate 192khz 24 bit stream of the same album, and boy I much prefer the CD rip. Again, my network connections aren’t optimised but the difference was quite clear. Couple of factors maybe, network optimisation not done so bad quality, or 192khz mastering not as good as cd mastering of 44.1khz etc.

Hi, I was doing both , but similar to yourself I found locally stored files, even lower bit rate, sounded better than streamed. Despite my ‘audio’ network switches seperated by fibre optic, I still found the locally stored files sounded better with the cx disconnected from Ethernet. For serious listening I would start an album, then unplug the cx from the network, made a noticeable difference! But even then I still prefer cd transport, although in that scenario the delta was the smallest.

 

[Triode User]

Hi, I was doing both , but similar to yourself I found locally stored files, even lower bit rate, sounded better than streamed. Despite my ‘audio’ network switches seperated by fibre optic, I still found the locally stored files sounded better with the cx disconnected from Ethernet. For serious listening I would start an album, then unplug the cx from the network, made a noticeable difference! But even then I still prefer cd transport, although in that scenario the delta was the smallest.

I went through all this when I had a Blu2 and there the challenge was to get a digital feed to the Blu2 to sound as good as a CD played on the Blu2. Now I no longer have the Blu2 and the only CD player I have is a vintage Meridian one which is definitely not a reference standard!

For the last few weeks though I have also been starting a locally stored file to play on my K50 and then pulled the ethernet cable from the back to get the best sound quality. That has become my reference. More recently I have been trying different audiophile switches (and a CISCO one) to see if I can approach that sound quality. Previously I had been using an EtherRegen with LPS really just on the basis that they get good reviews but compared to pulling the plug out of the back it was obvious that it was flavouring the sound. Not in a particularly bad way but it was different. I then had a demo of the Innuos PhoenixNET switch and as far as I can hear this achieves exactly what I wanted in that having it connected sounds the same as disconnecting my K50 from the ethernet. Success! Now I do not have to bother with the faff of starting a file playing and then pulling the ethernet plug from the rear of the K50.

I still do not know of course how this sounds compared to a good CD player but perhaps one day I will get the opportunity to hear one because a friend has just bought one that he really rates.

 

[burbster]

I probably should add, (to appease the moderators and ensure this thread stays on topic), that the only reason I can hear these subtle but noticeable differences is down to the amazing accuracy and transparency of the DAVE/MSCALER combo, and how well they convey any changes in up steam components.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Not to get OT here, but why do you hate Tidal MQA files? I don't really love the concept, but I can't say I've noticed much of a difference in sound quality either way from non-MQA files. FWIW, I also don't notice any sonic difference between playing local FLAC files and streaming the same versions from Tidal. If it's the same bits, how would your DAC know where they originated?

I have noticed that MQA files sometimes sound more digital than non-MQA files. Also, I'm not sure why local files sound better. I guess it may have something to do with the switch and ethernet cable. I think I'm going to try the PhoenixNET, as multiple people have recommended it to me. We'll see if that helps with the sound quality of streamed files

 

[adrianm]

So i'm testing Charlin power cable and i hate how much of a difference it makes compared to my Isotek premier. It's definitely better, but not 1k better. And if it was a lot better i'd gladly spend the 1k. It's pretty much only slightly better low level detail.

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