CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Sonic77]

   
And what about a very Good regulated BIG external battery connected to the plug and socket in the main board ?  
 
Something like a custom made version of the Black Lightning (LiFePO4 (LFP) battery) by Red Wine Audio ? 

I think you need to reread what Rob Watts wrote.

 

[Beolab]

I am sure there is some compromise in using a linear power supply - in fact I know there are compromises.

Perhaps I should explain.

When developing Hugo in 2012 I had to use switching regulators (battery life issues) rather than linear ones, as we all know linear regulators sound better don't they?

Funny thing was, in testing and listening, the switching regulators sounded a lot smoother and darker with much better sound-stage depth.

Also the DAC measured a lot better too, particularly with very small signals. I now know exactly why this happened, and why they sound better and exactly why they measure better within a DAC.

Moral of the tale? Don't make assumptions based on what you think is happening, do the work, do the measuring, and do the rigorous listening tests. Then you find out that things are not as simple as you think, and you find out that previous certainties were mere assumptions.

Rob

Its funny because i have discovered the same thing, and from the beginning i thaught my ears was faulty, but i thaught it wasn't any point to drop my findings on HeadFi because everyone are going to scream Linear supply / UPS battery power!
I have found out that the sound is smoother and warmer in the bottom end vs Battery / Linear power from my listening tests.

(And this tested with no cheap Wall Wart switching charger, i have used a Volt adjustable Vanson Switching supply for laptops with extra low ripple / RF. )

 

[Rob Watts]

   
And what about a very Good regulated BIG external battery connected to the plug and socket in the main board ?  
 
Something like a custom made version of the Black Lightning (LiFePO4 (LFP) battery) by Red Wine Audio ? 

I did do listening tests with 2 Qute with the stock switching PSU and a 300A 12V car battery, and I could not hear a difference at all (unlike with Qute where there was a big difference).
 
Dave has more internal regulation, more RF filtering, and higher innate power supply rejection ratio than 2 Qute, so if I were to do such a test I would be extremely surprised if I were to hear a difference.
 
What people don't understand is that a DAC internally is a RF noise hell (and moreover is signal correlated too) - and this is several orders of magnitude more noisy than the noise you get from a properly designed PSU. That is where the effort goes into - the internal nodes in the DAC, where people don't see, appreciate or understand the difficulties.
 
Rob 

 

[Beolab]

Thats even more funny when people try to get rid of RF noise and get a better sound with a thicker $$$$$ power cable from NordOst without any filtering or anything, when the biggest issue is not the outer RF noise, its more often inside their equipments that are poorly built or need to be shielded/bettered in many ways first. But it is an easy way to satisfy the placebo effect

I have participate in two seminars with Nordost here in Stockholm at the Sweet-Spot show, where they demoed a stock power cable with ODIN II in 3 m leght connected to a Sim Audio Moon rig with Wilson speakers, Brinkman servo turntable.

Out of about 80 people in the room it was only one guy who thought he heard a difference.

It was impossible to hear any difference, but the Nordost presentation guy thought it was a huge difference and recommend us all to throw out our existing Vahalla power cables and replace them with Odin II because the power cable in 3 meters is the most important connector in your hole audio chain.

Then they also recommended to use Nordost Valhalla II or Purple Flare power cable for your aäApple TV for a Hugh performance upgrade for the picture and audio.

Sadly this is only a big lie and placebo effect , where money is the only main goal to get people to think this is the solution for all of their problems in their systems back home.

 

[Kamil21]

Dave has more internal regulation, more RF filtering, and higher innate power supply rejection ratio than 2 Qute, so if I were to do such a test I would be extremely surprised if I were to hear a difference

Rob 

Yes, but sometimes the noise from the power supply can leak via the power outlets into the other components such as the preamp and other equipment in the audio chain.

Martin Colloms of HiFi Critic noted once that unplugging a component which had a switching power supply from the shared mains had an impact on the overall sound (even if it was not directly in the audio chain). However I don't suppose this would matter if you were listening direct with headphones.

 

[Beolab]

Yes, but sometimes the noise from the power supply can leak via the power outlets into the other components such as the preamp and other equipment in the audio chain.

Martin Colloms of HiFi Critic noted once that unplugging a component which had a switching power supply from the shared mains had an impact on the overall sound (even if it was not directly in the audio chain). However I don't suppose this would matter if you were listening direct with headphones.

Yes its true that a switching power supply can leak out dirty noise like an fridge in the power network in your home, so you need to have filter like a Isotek Mira that stop this leaking, but other than that i have only postive to say about the good quality Switching power supplys ( not wallwart versions) .

Got a B&W PVD1 Subwoofer with a big integrated switching power supply at my summer house and yes it is leaking noise big time, but with a shunt filter or a Isotek Mini Mira it is dead silent in my floor speakers now.

 

[Skampmeister]

Those mini Mira's are the bomb, I use one on my Telly, and it made a big difference to the picture, so clean looking.

 

[bmichels]

  I did do listening tests with 2 Qute with the stock switching PSU and a 300A 12V car battery, and I could not hear a difference at all (unlike with Qute where there was a big difference).   Dave has more internal regulation, more RF filtering, and higher innate power supply rejection ratio than 2 Qute, so if I were to do such a test I would be extremely surprised if I were to hear a difference....
 
Rob 

 
So.... I can plan to built my battery powered portable  DAVE

 

[Sonic77]

   
So.... I can plan to built my battery powered portable  DAVE

LoL , make sure you use a car battery.

 

[bmichels]

LoL , make sure you use a car battery. :tongue_smile:

Or...Something like a custom made version of the Black Lightning (LiFePO4 (LFP) battery) by Red Wine Audio ?

 

[TheAttorney]

My first look and listen of the Dave is coming up tomorrow afternoon, when I'll compare it to the similarly priced CAD DAC, which hasn't received as much hype (to put it mildly), but it and matching CAT server quietly gets well reviewed by individuals.
 
Then I'll take Dave home for the weekend (!) to compare against my Yggy, to see if the considerable price difference is worth it.
Very curious as to how this will pan out.

 

[Kamil21]

My first look and listen of the Dave is coming up tomorrow afternoon, when I'll compare it to the similarly priced CAD DAC, which hasn't received as much hype (to put it mildly), but it and matching CAT server quietly gets well reviewed by individuals.

Then I'll take Dave home for the weekend (!) to compare against my Yggy, to see if the considerable price difference is worth it.
Very curious as to how this will pan out.

Can't wait to hear your first impressions!

If it really is better than the CAD (which HiFi+ says is comparable to the top DcS) that would be something.

What is the rest of your system, amplifier, headphones etc. you will be testing in?

 

[romaz]

Or...Something like a custom made version of the Black Lightning (LiFePO4 (LFP) battery) by Red Wine Audio ?

Vinnie Rossi has completely discontinued production of the Black Lightning and all Red Wine Audio products.  He has decided to devote all of his attention to his new LIO.  I know because I asked some time ago.  Check your link and you'll see for yourself.
 
Battery supplies also are not without their problems.  In theory, they can provide a more silent noise floor compared to a switching PSU but as we know, noise floor is not an issue for the DAVE.  This is already one of the quietest DACs you can buy and so I fail to understand what you would gain using batteries on the DAVE, certainly not portability which is what it provides the Hugo and Mojo.  It would support Rob's claim that he has succeeded in sufficiently isolating the DAVE from its switching PSU.  
 
Rob has already mentioned that the switching PSU in the DAVE can affect other audio components and he suggested that you consider a line conditioner with the DAVE.  Lastly, Rob mentioned that the DAC environment is more likely to produce more RF than its PSU and so it is a credit to his efforts that the DAVE is such a quiet DAC with such a low noise floor but I am curious to know how much impact signal grounding might have with the DAVE using a grounding box made by Entreq or others.  I have asked Rob about this but he said he wasn't familiar with Entreq.  Nonetheless, it would seem to me that money would be better spent in something like this compared to a battery PSU which would void the DAVE's warranty.

 

[romaz]

  My first look and listen of the Dave is coming up tomorrow afternoon, when I'll compare it to the similarly priced CAD DAC, which hasn't received as much hype (to put it mildly), but it and matching CAT server quietly gets well reviewed by individuals.
 
Then I'll take Dave home for the weekend (!) to compare against my Yggy, to see if the considerable price difference is worth it.
Very curious as to how this will pan out.

I, too, am eager to hear your impressions as I regard CAD highly but the only area where I believe the CAD 1543 DAC could compete with the DAVE would be on speakers and not on headphones.  The CAD 1543 in its current form is incapable of driving headphones directly.  You would need to pair it with a headphone amp which would significantly handicap it against the DAVE.

 

[TheAttorney]

What is the rest of your system, amplifier, headphones etc. you will be testing in?

I'm expecting the shop demo to include Aurender W20 source via USB, and a mid-range Stax system at the other end.
 
My home system is in my profile. In short, it will be the CD transport section of my Nagra CDC via Toslink and a BHSE/009 at the other end.