[music4mhell]

 

I am exited about the big reveal... But boy... How do I watch it on the web? Any live feeds? Or more importantly when do we find out about release date.

Not that I can afford anything for like 2 more years

the SD will be a very interesting product for Mojo owners.
 
As for the other two products to be announced, for those of us who aren't gonna spend for a while let's wait for those product threads to hit 10,000 posts and more lol

10,000 posts will be quick, let's make it to 10,000 pages

 

[Kamil21]

Stop Press :

At CES today, Rob Watts of Chord reveals he has discovered the mystery behind sound differences in computer audio in the new transport for Dave. Bits are not just bits, and perfecting the digital stream is not just about removing EMI, RF and jitter.

Through breakthrough use of measurement tools used at the CERN Hadron Collider, Mr Watts has proven the contradictions between String Theory , Quantum Chromodynamics and Shannons Law. He solves it with a patented sympathetic light pulse at a wavelength of around 475 nm that he calls NERD (Neutralising Energy Release Device) which preserves absolute signal integrity from Davina to Dave.

Happy New Year!

 

[music4mhell]

Stop Press :

At CES today, Rob Watts of Chord reveals he has discovered the mystery behind sound differences in computer audio in the new transport for Dave. Bits are not just bits, and perfecting the digital stream is not just about removing EMI, RF and jitter.

Through breakthrough use of measurement tools used at the CERN Hadron Collider, Mr Watts has proven the contradictions between String Theory , Quantum Chromodynamics and Shannons Law. He solves it with a patented sympathetic light pulse at a wavelength of around 475 nm that he calls NERD (Neutralising Energy Release Device) which preserves absolute signal integrity from Davina to Dave.

Happy New Year!

Davina, nice name !
Any news on SD card module ?

 

[miketlse]

  Davina, nice name !
Any news on SD card module ? It is in production, and distributors/dealers were placing orders a few weeks back. I am sure that Chord will announce an update to the status on the 5th. Until then, anything 'stated' by a HeadFi member involves an element of speculation/prediction/hope etc.
This thread has captured much amusing prediction/hope, and in just three days time, we will all discover if we were close to hitting the target. 

 

[Mojo ideas]

Its odd that there are still people out there (not you specifically) that still think that the Mojo and Hugo have a separate amp section.
Also, in what way are they weak? If compared to CDM and WA8 which are both tube amps, then of course the Chord devices would sound different BUT weak they are not. At line level, you'll already blow your ears out and kill most of your headgear

I tend to agree with you There seems to have been a bit of a continual drip of negativity about the power output of our Dacs often quoting products that are technically not as powerful or in anyway as competent as ours. We wondered why but I guess when you consider the vast numbers of amp manufacturers that need to sell their products there must be plenty of people out there with fairly blunt axes to grind so what might happen if we launch an amp next week

 

[miketlse]

I tend to agree with you There seems to have been a bit of a continual drip of negativity about the power output of our Dacs often quoting products that are technically not as powerful or in anyway as competent as ours. We wondered why but I guess when you consider the vast numbers of amp manufacturers that need to sell their products there must be plenty of people out there with fairly blunt axes to grind so what might happen if we launch an amp next week

 
The runaway success of Hugo, Mojo and DAVE have changed Chord from 'one of the crowd' to the 'market leader' in several market segments. This success inevitably reduces the demand for 'quality headphone amps', and so those manufacturers will inevitably try and target Chord with negative comments, using social media. It is cheap to do, and if you throw enough mud, and hundreds of thousands of people read the comments, some of the mud will stick.
 
Having said that, I think some of the posters are genuinely so used to modern music reproduction, with the focus on a continual 'boom, boom.......' of bass notes, that a Chord DAC with a neutral bass reproduction, can seem underpowered at first. Those posters are interpreting bass bloat to be an indicator of the DAC/amplifier performance/power.

 

[jmills8]

The runaway success of Hugo, Mojo and DAVE have changed Chord from 'one of the crowd' to the 'market leader' in several market segments. This success inevitably reduces the demand for 'quality headphone amps', and so those manufacturers will inevitably try and target Chord with negative comments, using social media. It is cheap to do, and if you throw enough mud, and hundreds of thousands of people read the comments, some of the mud will stick.

Having said that, I think some of the posters are genuinely so used to modern music reproduction, with the focus on a continual 'boom, boom.......' of bass notes, that a Chord DAC with a neutral bass reproduction, can seem underpowered at first. Those posters are interpreting bass bloat to be an indicator of the DAC/amplifier performance/power.

By "Modern" you mean 1968 to 2016?

 

[miketlse]

By "Modern" you mean 1968 to 2016?

I was thinking more of the last two decades, as the increasing use of 'loudness', 'computer generated music', etc, has resulted in anyone aged between 10 and 30, learning to love music with an overpowering non-stop bass beat, with other vocals and instruments becoming secondary.

 

[jmills8]

I was thinking more of the last two decades, as the increasing use of 'loudness', 'computer generated music', etc, has resulted in anyone aged between 10 and 30, learning to love music with an overpowering non-stop bass beat, with other vocals and instruments becoming secondary.

Ever been to a live Rick concert? Say Led Zepplin, Stealy Dan , or Rush? The walls shake, when the drummer drums the bass drum has impact. This has been going on before computers. Ever been to a Night Club the music moves the foundation. OK if you basically listen to vocals, females on a piano well then thats a different story.

 

[obsidyen]

When I was at Berghain I felt the bass in my bones.

 

[jmills8]

When I was at Berghain I felt the bass in my bones.

Bingo

 

[JaZZ]

Simply impossible with headphones – so... some are trying to look for some sort of compensation. Some doses of (preferrably 2nd-order) harmonic distortion will certainly help.

 

[Layman1]

The SD-card reader/DAP seems a given; exact functionality to be confirmed.
An amp could be a reasonable bet, and/or some product which permits balanced output from the Mojo (assuming it doesn't already have that? I don't own one yet, so not certain!)
As has been said, a new model to replace the Hugo(s) could well be on the cards though.
Finally, I remember someone from Chord talking about a plan to develop a piece of equipment for professional music studios; a kind of industrial scale DAVE.
That might be one of the new announcements. And it could revolutionise the music production industry, and perhaps help to move us away from the 'loudness war'

 

[sodesuka]

Hugo 2 is almost a certainty. Kinda curious what kind of design they will come up this time.

 

[Mython]

  .... some product which permits balanced output from the Mojo (assuming it doesn't already have that? I don't own one yet, so not certain!)

 
 

Spoiler: Nay, nay, & thrice nay!

 

Of course the balanced output is going to be better than the Mojo, the Mojo doesn't have balanced output.

No that simply is not correct! A single ended design, done right with a large enough voltage swing will easily out perform a balanced output. Balanced designs are used by some designers to overcome inherent limitations within designs. Usually to overcome substrate noise on the chip that shouldn't be there or to increase the output voltage swing of their amplifiers. We don't suffer those limitation or problems so we don't need a dodgy fix for them. Our measurements clearly show this. Sorry to burst you bubble man.

Balance operation is a fix for problems we don't have. We have no substrate noise and we have plenty of output swing. Single ended done right is far better than a balanced design far less distortion.

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Watts /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Quote:

Originally Posted by agisthos /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Rob you should give a definitive 'why SE is better' explanation. Get it over with, because many (most) audiophiles have been biased towards balanced and are not going to understand where you are coming from.
 
One good argument I heard from the Densen founder (Thomas Sillesen) is that each half of the signwave runs through a series of components that will always have tolerances different from each other, so when combining the signal they will not ever match, causing an increase in distortion (of some kind I cannot remember).
 
Charles Hanson, of Ayre, who is a proponent of fully balanced equipment, has even stated that for pure sound quality SE will always sound better, but this is on the bench, where the power supply and analog signal stages can be kept physically apart. When putting them in a box he prefers balanced.

Well this is a complex subject, and sometimes a balanced connection does sound better than single ended (SE) - in a pre-power context - but it depends upon the environment, and the pre and power and the interconnect. But the downside of balanced is that you are doubling the number of analogue components in the direct signal path, and this degrades transparency. In my experience every passive component is audible, every metal to metal interface (including solder joints - I once had a lot of fun listening to solder) has an impact - in case of metal/metal interfaces it degrades detail resolution and the perception of depth. So going balanced will have a cost in transparency.
 
In DAC design, going balanced is essential with silicon design; there is simply too much substrate noise and other effects not too. But with discrete DAC's you do not need to worry about this, so going SE on a discrete DAC is possible, and is how all my DAC's are done. But differential operation hides certain problems (notably reference circuit) that has serious SQ effects; so going SE means those problems are exposed, which forces one to solve the issue fundamentally. In short, to make SE work you have to solve many more problems, but the result of solving those problems solves SQ issues than differential operation hides when you do measurements.
 
Rob 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Watts /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Component count is very important for transparency. Doubling the number of parts in the direct signal path does degrade depth perception and detail resolution.
 
But there is another problem with balanced operation. Imagine a balanced differential in, differential out amplifier. The input stage is normally a differential pair (maybe cascoded) with a constant current source. Now the input stage is free to move up and down to accommodate the common mode voltage - but the input stage common mode impedance is non linear, and if the common mode voltage has a signal component (it always will have due to component tolerances) then this will create a signal dependent error current, thereby generating distortion. Unfortunately, the negative feedback loop of the amplifier can't correct for this distortion as it can't see the error on the summing nodes. So there will always be a limit to the performance. With SE operation, this problem does not occur, as the differential input stage is clamped to ground.
 
Now DAC designers are well aware of this - that's why all high performance DAC's use two single ended I to V converters from the current OP of the DAC's, then use a differential to SE converter to create the voltage OP. There are other reasons for doing this as well, as the DAC requires a very low impedance virtual ground for low distortion, and you can only get this using dual SE amps - another problem is RF and its much easier to decouple SE than differentially - this in turn creates a lot more noise floor modulation, making it sound less smooth.
 
But for me the most important is transparency. I had an amp that had two modes - differential or SE - listening in balanced mode flattened the sound stage depth dramatically,and it sounded harder, less smooth. That said, there are circumstances when balanced operation can be better than SE, for example when you are looking at connecting a pre-amp to a power amp, and what is best depends upon particular circumstances. In short, if SE operation is noisy, try balanced.
 
Rob