[simorag]

Fellow audiophiles, and fortunate Blu2Dave users, I am asking your kind advice.

I am trying to catch up with this very informative thread (currently reading page 65), so I apologize in advance if what I am going to ask is already covered by other posts.

I have recently got a DAVE, which I run via an audio-optimized laptop (see my sig) off batteries, as a headphone DAC-amp driving my Abyss Phi headphones.
My music library is 100% made by files stored on my local SSD, i.e. no CD involved, no streaming services. I do not intend to use ROON and my laptop is not on a (ethernet or wifi) network.

I am in the market for upgrading my source, and here is my question.

Speaking purely in sound quality terms (i.e. not accounting for convenience, flexibility, price, etc.):

a) what in your experience would bring more improvement in my situation, between adding to the DAVE a Blu2 (fed via USB by my current laptop) or an high-end music server like a Zenith MkII SE, Antipodes DX gen 3, SoTM ultra stack etc.?

b) on a Blu2DAVE system, how much further improvement can be obtained by moving from a laptop to a dedicated music server like the ones above?

Thank you in advance!
Simone

 

[Malcyg]

Fellow audiophiles, and fortunate Blu2Dave users, I am asking your kind advice.

I am trying to catch up with this very informative thread (currently reading page 65), so I apologize in advance if what I am going to ask is already covered by other posts.

I have recently got a DAVE, which I run via an audio-optimized laptop (see my sig) off batteries, as a headphone DAC-amp driving my Abyss Phi headphones.
My music library is 100% made by files stored on my local SSD, i.e. no CD involved, no streaming services. I do not intend to use ROON and my laptop is not on a (ethernet or wifi) network.

I am in the market for upgrading my source, and here is my question.

Speaking purely in sound quality terms (i.e. not accounting for convenience, flexibility, price, etc.):

a) what in your experience would bring more improvement in my situation, between adding to the DAVE a Blu2 (fed via USB by my current laptop) or an high-end music server like a Zenith MkII SE, Antipodes DX gen 3, SoTM ultra stack etc.?

b) on a Blu2DAVE system, how much further improvement can be obtained by moving from a laptop to a dedicated music server like the ones above?

Thank you in advance!
Simone

Hi Simone,

a) adding the Blu II will give the most pronounced improvement in my experience
b) this is harder to answer as it depends on your current setup. The only true answer is to get hold of one on a trial basis and try it in your own system and decide based upon your own experience.

Good luck.

 

[simorag]

Thank you @Malcyg !

By reading this thread (now on page 120) I would deduce that your opinion on (a) has broad consensus.

 

[Malcyg]

Thank you @Malcyg !

By reading this thread (now on page 120) I would deduce that your opinion on (a) has broad consensus.

Probably - this is the Blu thread after all!

The benefits from b) will be largely down to how much improvement you can obtain in eradicating noise compared to your laptop fed direct. I’d say that you should be able to get a fair improvement but Rob Watts himself is happy with a laptop running on battery power. I’d start with the Blu and see how you feel after that. You may be very happy to stop there. Your wallet will be happier.

 

[Malcyg]

so much discussion about ferrite cables for blu2? Blimey

I know!

This may be controversial, but I am currently running without a single ferrite anywhere to be seen.

 

[jonstatt]

Blu II in black is still 12 weeks out


When did you place your order?
I was just yesterday given an update and was informed my unit is approximately 12 weeks out. My order was placed around January 6th, so nearly 17 week projected total wait. I was told the explanation for the long wait is due to being 'overwhelmed due to an influx of new orders'. There was no mention of any 'metalwork problems'! How bizarre, and that some of us have different explanations.

The tricky part for me is that my dealer has a 'personal' (not sure what he meant) Blu mk.2 in SILVER. It's better to wait so that the units match (DAVE/Blu), but the sound of the music would not mind the discrepancy.

.

Ordered the same date! The increase in orders will likely be after ours because of the show in Jan. So a manufacturing issue seems more likely to me.

 

[STR-1]

I’m now being told by Chord that it is twelve weeks for both silver and black versions.

 

[Silvertone4]

BNC Cables Comparison with Dave/Blu Mk.2

I have been using the 6ft 'bare' Canare 12G-SDI/4K UHD BNC cables for a few days now. They sound fine but to be fair I have not had a chance to compare with anything else yet.

After spending some time with these two BNC cables I had to share my findings, so here's my mini-review in the context of Dave/BLU Mk 2 in my two-channel reference rig.

Canare 12G-SDI/4K (http://store.haveinc.com/p-62540-canare-12g-sdi-4k-uhd-single-channel-bnc-cable-10-ft.aspx)

This cable is a bit thicker (diameter) than other BNC cables I have used in my system, it's very well constructed, per pictures from the manufacturer it has a copper foil and high-density tinned copper braided shielding which I guess accounts for the thicker construction.

Sound.

This cable sounds extremely similar to other BNC cables I have on hand with the Wurth ferrite beads dressing those cables. The sound is dark with a very low noise floor. This cable tends to over-smooth things over, which some may prefer with certain recordings. I'm afraid you can't attribute this to lowering the noise floor or blocking RF interference, the reason I say this is because all recordings I tried took on this dark, heavy, somewhat bloated sound that is far from neutral, in other words, this cable is not completely transparent.

It was very evident that the bass resolution on this cable was not as good as the Amphenol-RF cable I'll discuss below. Timing and rhythm also seem to be off. To be fair, I have encountered the same thing with other BNC cables once you add the ferrite beads. Perhaps, some folks that are fond of tubes will find this cable to be the silver bullet for their system, but honestly, the cable is far from being neutral and engaging therefore lacks musicality and energy.

Lastly, I don't see how this cable can draw any additional benefits from ferrite beads, unless, of course if you dream about drowning yourself in a bowl of honey syrup


095-850-187M100 made by Amphenol-RF (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/523-095-850-187M100?r=523-095-850-187M100)

This cable's appearance is nothing to brag about, the cable is a bit thin in diameter but it looks well built. It does not have the ultra thick construction of the Canare.

Sound.

To be honest, I bought this cable as an afterthought and since everyone kept posting about how good the Canare cable was I thought I'd be returning this cable.

The moment I put this cable in my system my jaw dropped, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. As a matter of fact I tried to dismiss what I was hearing by wondering if I had changed something in my system and by thinking that it was impossible for a digital cable to make this type of change in my system.

The first thing I noticed was the incredible detail retrieval this cable presented, I'm talking all the way across the audio spectrum. This cable can clearly differentiate between the upper, mid and lower bass notes like nothing I have heard in my 20+ years in this hobby. I'm talking articulation and timing of these notes. I know, I know, this may come across as vulgar exaggeration of what a digital cable can do in a system, after all, bits are bits right? Trust me, if somebody else was writing this I'd also be skeptical.

The midrange with this cable is also surreal, recording after recording (I was up until 3 am this morning) the midrange had this liquidity and presence where voices seem to emanate right between the speaker and float in mid air. Truly unbelievable.

This cable seemed to benefit from adding ferrite beads to it, it sounded a bit more quiet and a tad smoother with them, I added about 7 of them. I also noticed that the cable sounded better after some burn-in time, as opposed to the Canare cable that pretty much sounded the same out of the box.

In all my years in this hobby, there have only been a few instances where a component or system really blew me away, I'll be adding this cable to this handful of experiences. I'm still scratching my head about how is it possible for a digital cable to have this profound effect on a system. Clearly, this cable is not adding noise or distortion to pull what I heard, so the mystery will remain and all I can do is comment on what I heard.

Having said all this, this cable is extremely neutral, it will reveal what's on a recording as well as your system's shortcomings. I would think that if your system is on the bright side this cable is not for you as it will expose any deficiencies. I'm anxious to hear comments from other folks using this cable, truly a giant-killer in my opinion.

Cheers!

 

[Triode User]

BNC Cables Comparison with Dave/Blu Mk.2



After spending some time with these two BNC cables I had to share my findings, so here's my mini-review in the context of Dave/BLU Mk 2 in my two-channel reference rig.

Canare 12G-SDI/4K (http://store.haveinc.com/p-62540-canare-12g-sdi-4k-uhd-single-channel-bnc-cable-10-ft.aspx)

This cable is a bit thicker (diameter) than other BNC cables I have used in my system, it's very well constructed, per pictures from the manufacturer it has a copper foil and high-density tinned copper braided shielding which I guess accounts for the thicker construction.

Sound.

This cable sounds extremely similar to other BNC cables I have on hand with the Wurth ferrite beads dressing those cables. The sound is dark with a very low noise floor. This cable tends to over-smooth things over, which some may prefer with certain recordings. I'm afraid you can't attribute this to lowering the noise floor or blocking RF interference, the reason I say this is because all recordings I tried took on this dark, heavy, somewhat bloated sound that is far from neutral, in other words, this cable is not completely transparent.

It was very evident that the bass resolution on this cable was not as good as the Amphenol-RF cable I'll discuss below. Timing and rhythm also seem to be off. To be fair, I have encountered the same thing with other BNC cables once you add the ferrite beads. Perhaps, some folks that are fond of tubes will find this cable to be the silver bullet for their system, but honestly, the cable is far from being neutral and engaging therefore lacks musicality and energy.

Lastly, I don't see how this cable can draw any additional benefits from ferrite beads, unless, of course if you dream about drowning yourself in a bowl of honey syrup


095-850-187M100 made by Amphenol-RF (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/523-095-850-187M100?r=523-095-850-187M100)

This cable's appearance is nothing to brag about, the cable is a bit thin in diameter but it looks well built. It does not have the ultra thick construction of the Canare.

Sound.

To be honest, I bought this cable as an afterthought and since everyone kept posting about how good the Canare cable was I thought I'd be returning this cable.

The moment I put this cable in my system my jaw dropped, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. As a matter of fact I tried to dismiss what I was hearing by wondering if I had changed something in my system and by thinking that it was impossible for a digital cable to make this type of change in my system.

The first thing I noticed was the incredible detail retrieval this cable presented, I'm talking all the way across the audio spectrum. This cable can clearly differentiate between the upper, mid and lower bass notes like nothing I have heard in my 20+ years in this hobby. I'm talking articulation and timing of these notes. I know, I know, this may come across as vulgar exaggeration of what a digital cable can do in a system, after all, bits are bits right? Trust me, if somebody else was writing this I'd also be skeptical.

The midrange with this cable is also surreal, recording after recording (I was up until 3 am this morning) the midrange had this liquidity and presence where voices seem to emanate right between the speaker and float in mid air. Truly unbelievable.

This cable seemed to benefit from adding ferrite beads to it, it sounded a bit more quiet and a tad smoother with them, I added about 7 of them. I also noticed that the cable sounded better after some burn-in time, as opposed to the Canare cable that pretty much sounded the same out of the box.

In all my years in this hobby, there have only been a few instances where a component or system really blew me away, I'll be adding this cable to this handful of experiences. I'm still scratching my head about how is it possible for a digital cable to have this profound effect on a system. Clearly, this cable is not adding noise or distortion to pull what I heard, so the mystery will remain and all I can do is comment on what I heard.

Having said all this, this cable is extremely neutral, it will reveal what's on a recording as well as your system's shortcomings. I would think that if your system is on the bright side this cable is not for you as it will expose any deficiencies. I'm anxious to hear comments from other folks using this cable, truly a giant-killer in my opinion.

Cheers!

Thanks for taking the time to try those and write out your conclusions.

The thing is though that you seem to be endowing the cables with some sort of analogue sound quality. The usual zeros and ones will be the same with both cables but what may be different is rf or emi and there the manifestation of both is often a brighter apparent sound. The honey syrup sound is not added by the cable. That is the real sound after the interference is taken away.

I may be being devils advocate here but you probably see my point which is intended to draw out other people’s thoughts.

 

[Natronious]

@Silvertone4 Interesting analysis. As I await the long process of Blu II delivery, I'm very curious to 'iron out' issues such as which cables with which ferrites (if any) are best. I'm surprised you didn't go for the 2 meter version of the Amphenol cable after what Rob has stated, in regards to 2 meter being better than 1 meter. When you say that you added 'about' 7 ferrites, did you try more? Or is this just as far as you made it? And which ferrites are you using, for size (diameter) reference, etc.

Thank you very much for your input. I very nearly purchased the Canare cables from B&H, but am thinking to pick up a couple of the Amphenol ones now.

 

[Silvertone4]

Thanks for taking the time to try those and write out your conclusions.

The thing is though that you seem to be endowing the cables with some sort of analogue sound quality.

Precisely because this digital cable had such effect in my system similar to an analog cable (interconnect, speaker cable) is what prompted me to write this.
Again, I can only write on what I heard and this difference was not subtle or imaginary.

I have noticed that with various digital cables the sound starts converging to this dark, syrupy, bloated sound as you start adding more ferrites.

Sure, some of this can be attributed to RF/EMI interference removal, the problem with this is that all recordings start to pickup the same bloated dark sound so you start to lose transparency and the individuality of each recording is lost. I have tried this with different sources and cables, so reason follows that the addition of ferrite beads is contributing in some degree to a sound signature of its own. Now, the Amphenol-RF cable I tried seems the less influenced by ferrite beads out of all the cables I have tried, i.e. first cable I have heard where ferrites don't seem to be coloring the sound in some way.

Now, how to reconcile what I'm hearing with what we factually know about RF/EMI int removal is an entirely different question and I don't have an answer. But based on what I'm hearing, something else is at play, it makes no sense for every single recording to start converging on the same sound signature.

More importantly, I'd encourage you to try this cable, add some ferrites to and report back on what you hear.

 

[Silvertone4]

@Silvertone4 Interesting analysis. As I await the long process of Blu II delivery, I'm very curious to 'iron out' issues such as which cables with which ferrites (if any) are best. I'm surprised you didn't go for the 2 meter version of the Amphenol cable after what Rob has stated, in regards to 2 meter being better than 1 meter. When you say that you added 'about' 7 ferrites, did you try more? Or is this just as far as you made it? And which ferrites are you using, for size (diameter) reference, etc.

Thank you very much for your input. I very nearly purchased the Canare cables from B&H, but am thinking to pick up a couple of the Amphenol ones now.

*Edit. Strange that the 2 meter version of this cable is more than twice the price compared to the 1 meter. That doesn't quite make sense to me...

I ordered two 1 meter because it appears that longer lengths are back ordered until April.

I added 7 because that's all I had on hand. I'm using the following ferrites:

WURTH ELECTRONICS
STAR-TEC snap ferrite 6-7.5mm cable
Mfr. Part #: 74271131

However, because of the small diamater of the Amphenol-RF cable, I had to order these which I haven't tried yet:

https://www.alliedelec.com/wurth-electronics-74271111s/70996455/

Besides the smaller diameter, they have better specs and the color is black which I preferred to the beige ones.

 

[Jawed]

Fascinating...

Canare 12G-SDI/4K (http://store.haveinc.com/p-62540-canare-12g-sdi-4k-uhd-single-channel-bnc-cable-10-ft.aspx)

This cable sounds extremely similar to other BNC cables I have on hand with the Wurth ferrite beads dressing those cables. The sound is dark with a very low noise floor. This cable tends to over-smooth things over, which some may prefer with certain recordings. I'm afraid you can't attribute this to lowering the noise floor or blocking RF interference, the reason I say this is because all recordings I tried took on this dark, heavy, somewhat bloated sound that is far from neutral, in other words, this cable is not completely transparent.

It was very evident that the bass resolution on this cable was not as good as the Amphenol-RF cable I'll discuss below. Timing and rhythm also seem to be off. To be fair, I have encountered the same thing with other BNC cables once you add the ferrite beads. Perhaps, some folks that are fond of tubes will find this cable to be the silver bullet for their system, but honestly, the cable is far from being neutral and engaging therefore lacks musicality and energy.

Lastly, I don't see how this cable can draw any additional benefits from ferrite beads, unless, of course if you dream about drowning yourself in a bowl of honey syrup

It seems that digital cables with ferrites, or this Canare cable, are upsetting the balance of your system. I get the impression that your system is already very "dark" sounding before BluDAVE came along. Perhaps you have a record player or radio in your system, so you don't want to change the overall sound of your system just to suit BluDAVE.

If BluDAVE is your only source, then it seems to me that the balance of your system is what needs attention. BluDAVE will sound neutral only when RF noise entering DAVE is minimised. The honey syrup effect is caused by the rest of your system...

095-850-187M100 made by Amphenol-RF (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/523-095-850-187M100?r=523-095-850-187M100)

The moment I put this cable in my system my jaw dropped, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. As a matter of fact I tried to dismiss what I was hearing by wondering if I had changed something in my system and by thinking that it was impossible for a digital cable to make this type of change in my system.

The first thing I noticed was the incredible detail retrieval this cable presented, I'm talking all the way across the audio spectrum. This cable can clearly differentiate between the upper, mid and lower bass notes like nothing I have heard in my 20+ years in this hobby. I'm talking articulation and timing of these notes. I know, I know, this may come across as vulgar exaggeration of what a digital cable can do in a system, after all, bits are bits right? Trust me, if somebody else was writing this I'd also be skeptical.

The midrange with this cable is also surreal, recording after recording (I was up until 3 am this morning) the midrange had this liquidity and presence where voices seem to emanate right between the speaker and float in mid air. Truly unbelievable.

I've found in my experiments that a little bit of RF noise getting into DAVE can add a "sheen" and "explicitness" to the sound, while still having a liquid quality. It can be really attractive for a few hours because there's a sense of hyper-reality.

In all my years in this hobby, there have only been a few instances where a component or system really blew me away, I'll be adding this cable to this handful of experiences. I'm still scratching my head about how is it possible for a digital cable to have this profound effect on a system. Clearly, this cable is not adding noise or distortion to pull what I heard, so the mystery will remain and all I can do is comment on what I heard.

I take issue with this final sentence, because adding ferrites to this cable changed the sound of your system in a way you liked. Ferrites can only be reducing noise entering DAVE.

On the other hand, it seems you have enjoyed a big leap in sound quality! It shouldn't matter how you got there.

The only problem for you now, I suppose, is can you resist doing more tweaks. It might actually be best to ignore my comments about your overall system balance...

DAVE with just an optical connection to a digital source should be the "reference" for the basic balance of your system.

Have you compared BluDAVE playing CDs in the Blu 2 transport against "streaming". How does your system sound when spinning a CD and using these two different cables? I'm just curious, because CD playback is known to sound very close to optimal. Make sure to disconnect your streamer from Blu 2 when playing a CD.

---

For me a new mystery seems to be arising: a very high bandwidth cable such as the Canare is seemingly resulting in very low amounts of RF noise injection into DAVE's ground plane. Conventionally a cable isn't able to filter common-mode noise that is already present on its conductors without adding ferrites.

I'm now wondering if most BNC cables are actually causing common mode noise problems and so require ferrites? What if a normal BNC cable is taking high-frequency differential noise (jitter, say) and somehow transforming it into common mode noise? I don't know how that would work, but a digital cable with no ferrites which sounds as "dark" as other cables with lots of ferrites seems to imply that there's a fundamental oddity here.

Now playing: Pink Floyd - Green is the Colour

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

BNC Cables Comparison with Dave/Blu Mk.2



After spending some time with these two BNC cables I had to share my findings, so here's my mini-review in the context of Dave/BLU Mk 2 in my two-channel reference rig.

Canare 12G-SDI/4K (http://store.haveinc.com/p-62540-canare-12g-sdi-4k-uhd-single-channel-bnc-cable-10-ft.aspx)

This cable is a bit thicker (diameter) than other BNC cables I have used in my system, it's very well constructed, per pictures from the manufacturer it has a copper foil and high-density tinned copper braided shielding which I guess accounts for the thicker construction.

Sound.

This cable sounds extremely similar to other BNC cables I have on hand with the Wurth ferrite beads dressing those cables. The sound is dark with a very low noise floor. This cable tends to over-smooth things over, which some may prefer with certain recordings. I'm afraid you can't attribute this to lowering the noise floor or blocking RF interference, the reason I say this is because all recordings I tried took on this dark, heavy, somewhat bloated sound that is far from neutral, in other words, this cable is not completely transparent.

It was very evident that the bass resolution on this cable was not as good as the Amphenol-RF cable I'll discuss below. Timing and rhythm also seem to be off. To be fair, I have encountered the same thing with other BNC cables once you add the ferrite beads. Perhaps, some folks that are fond of tubes will find this cable to be the silver bullet for their system, but honestly, the cable is far from being neutral and engaging therefore lacks musicality and energy.

Lastly, I don't see how this cable can draw any additional benefits from ferrite beads, unless, of course if you dream about drowning yourself in a bowl of honey syrup


095-850-187M100 made by Amphenol-RF (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/523-095-850-187M100?r=523-095-850-187M100)

This cable's appearance is nothing to brag about, the cable is a bit thin in diameter but it looks well built. It does not have the ultra thick construction of the Canare.

Sound.

To be honest, I bought this cable as an afterthought and since everyone kept posting about how good the Canare cable was I thought I'd be returning this cable.

The moment I put this cable in my system my jaw dropped, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. As a matter of fact I tried to dismiss what I was hearing by wondering if I had changed something in my system and by thinking that it was impossible for a digital cable to make this type of change in my system.

The first thing I noticed was the incredible detail retrieval this cable presented, I'm talking all the way across the audio spectrum. This cable can clearly differentiate between the upper, mid and lower bass notes like nothing I have heard in my 20+ years in this hobby. I'm talking articulation and timing of these notes. I know, I know, this may come across as vulgar exaggeration of what a digital cable can do in a system, after all, bits are bits right? Trust me, if somebody else was writing this I'd also be skeptical.

The midrange with this cable is also surreal, recording after recording (I was up until 3 am this morning) the midrange had this liquidity and presence where voices seem to emanate right between the speaker and float in mid air. Truly unbelievable.

This cable seemed to benefit from adding ferrite beads to it, it sounded a bit more quiet and a tad smoother with them, I added about 7 of them. I also noticed that the cable sounded better after some burn-in time, as opposed to the Canare cable that pretty much sounded the same out of the box.

In all my years in this hobby, there have only been a few instances where a component or system really blew me away, I'll be adding this cable to this handful of experiences. I'm still scratching my head about how is it possible for a digital cable to have this profound effect on a system. Clearly, this cable is not adding noise or distortion to pull what I heard, so the mystery will remain and all I can do is comment on what I heard.

Having said all this, this cable is extremely neutral, it will reveal what's on a recording as well as your system's shortcomings. I would think that if your system is on the bright side this cable is not for you as it will expose any deficiencies. I'm anxious to hear comments from other folks using this cable, truly a giant-killer in my opinion.

Cheers!

Silertone
Was your test done with headphones or speakers? If the latter I hope you don’t mind me asking what speakers did you use and what is the approx size of room?

 

[Natronious]

Silvertone4, thank you very much for the detailed response! I really appreciate it. I look forward to reading more impressions from others using this cable. Your impressions offer an interesting twist in the pursuit of the 'best' cable solution for this connection.