[Mojo ideas]

Did Jude or anyone make a video about Poly?

We asked him to hold off for a few days as the units we had in Las Vegas were not production units.

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

Th
the primary reason we chose 2.5GHz WiFi over 5GHz is simply because of the fact that 90percent of all routers are 2.4GHz the secondary reason is that 5GHz has by vurtue of its higher frequency of operation it has a far shorter Range which does not penetrate solid walls well at all so most users living in apartments would be very unhappy if we had opted for 5GHz

 
2.4GHz is also extremely crowded, especially in apartment buildings, which causes the radio to have to reduce bandwidth (by way of lower modulation rates) to be able to reliably communicate... This decreases end-to-end throughput, often substantially. 5GHz is extremely common, even standard in almost every product these days, and this technology performs far better than you give it credit for. These days almost all routers have a 5GHz radio, and many do not have a dual band mode, so it's one or the other... A large number of users will be forced to choose between using Poly or having a good wireless network. The Nintendo 3DS went the same route with a 2.4GHz b/g only chipset, and it is easily the single most criticized feature of the product. I don't understand why a dual band radio was not considered, especially since such chipsets can be had for so little money. I'm also curious how having the Bluetooth transmitter (which operates on the same frequency) so close by will affect RSSI, SNR, etc. on the 802.11. Again, I wish you had cited performance as a reason, but I'm becoming less and less surprised when that's not the case.   

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

In light of the response you got about the price, John, here's a suggestion:

Announce a scaled down version of the Poly ("Poly Mini"?), with all fancy features eliminated except one -- microSD module. I guess you still need Bluetooth plus a customized app for control, but most people would be happy with just that.

Priced it at $149 or even $199 and you'll get 80% of existing Mojo buyers waiting in line to hand in the cash.

The "Poly Mini"!

At $599 (?), maybe you will get 5 - 10%.

 
If it had just (2.4GHz/5GHz dual band) wifi (ala chromecast audio) and in a smaller package, I'd seriously consider buying it... even if it was 5x the cost of a CCA at $150... convenience factor would be worth it.
 
At $600, I'll stick with the CCA.  At $200, I'd still probably stick with the CCA. 

 

[Weatherlight]

In light of the response you got about the price, John, here's a suggestion:

Announce a scaled down version of the Poly ("Poly Mini"?), with all fancy features eliminated except one -- microSD module. I guess you still need Bluetooth plus a customized app for control, but most people would be happy with just that.

Priced it at $149 or even $199 and you'll get 80% of existing Mojo buyers waiting in line to hand in the cash.

The "Poly Mini"!

At $599 (?), maybe you will get 5 - 10%.

That won't be Poly anymore... More like Mono.

Mojomono... heh jk

 

[psikey]

I recently setup a new wireless network for my friend and due to two walls between router and his study computer I had do drop it down from the 5GHz to the 2.4GHz. On his 50/50 fibre I was only getting 2.5MB but once on the 2.4GHz got full speed.
 
Ones upstairs in the bedrooms (so only going through floor) I was OK with 5GHz.
 
I work in IT myself and never really had issues with 2.4GHz unless HD streaming from Plex, but then I don't live in appartments.

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

We asked him to hold off for a few days as the units we had in Las Vegas were not production units.

 
Sounds like he heard something he didn't like...

 

[psikey]

   
Sounds like he heard something he didn't like...

 
Are you always this negative ?  Lets just wait and see, not necessary to keep sniping. As you've said, we don't have to buy it.

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

  I recently setup a new wireless network for my friend and due to two walls between router and his study computer I had do drop it down from the 5GHz to the 2.4GHz. On his 50/50 fibre I was only getting 2.5MB but once on the 2.4GHz got full speed.
 
Ones upstairs in the bedrooms (so only going through floor) I was OK with 5GHz.
 
I work in IT myself and never really had issues with 2.4GHz unless HD streaming from Plex, but then I don't live in appartments.

 
Did you try reducing bandwidth from 40MHz to 20MHz? Default for 802.11n is 40MHz (as you probably know) to maximize throughput... obviously that only works short distances. 
 
I had the same issue, reduced to 20MHz and got 62Mbps on a 150Mbps/12Mbps connection (speed test results). 

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

   
Are you always this negative ?  

 
No. I'm generally a HAPPYOLDGUY. 

 

[Mojo ideas]

Even if what has been mentionned is absolutely true , I would rather stress on Design Definition/Requirements.: Wi-Fi range in metrics.
Dealing with a portable and non desktop unit I am not expecting a range of hundreds meter but around a much smaller value.
Now whatever will bring Poly, I am not argueing and sincerely don't care.
My point is whatever frequency bands you are using you have to design accordingly ( Link Budget /Output Transmit Power/CDMA/Tx Rejection/etc...) by taking into account all the constraints..
Do not expect whatever Wi-Fi item designed/optimized for 10m to reach hundreds of meters.

We do as you put it "stress on design " the better solution is 2.4GHz that is why it was chosen!

 

[dkulesza]

5Ghz is a far better wifi technology than 2.4Ghz. The reason most people choose 2.4ghz is they don't understand wireless.

2.4Ghz is crowded and limited. For full bandwidth and 40Mhx operation you're limited to about 3-4 actual channels. Now layer in a crowded airspace with zigbee and their tech and you're done.

5Ghz is far better but range is limited. That's why you implement multiple access points for coverage. Much more bandwidth with limited interference. Problem is most people think with a "2.4ghz mindset." They want their all in one device to provide coverage for entire house.

When you finally learn and understand proper wifi engineering, you'll realize you've been doing it wrong all along.. friends don't let friends 2.4ghz.

 

[Mojo ideas]

5Ghz is a far better wifi technology than 2.4Ghz. The reason most people choose 2.4ghz is they don't understand wireless.

2.4Ghz is crowded and limited. For full bandwidth and 40Mhx operation you're limited to about 3-4 actual channels. Now layer in a crowded airspace with zigbee and their tech and you're done.

5Ghz is far better but range is limited. That's why you implement multiple access points for coverage. Much more bandwidth with limited interference. Problem is most people think with a "2.4ghz mindset." They want their all in one device to provide coverage for entire house.

When you finally learn and understand proper wifi engineering, you'll realize you've been doing it wrong all along.. friends don't let friends 2.4ghz.

We manufacture for customers around the globe in many regions apartment living is the norm 5GHz goes not penetrate the concrete and rebar walls of most buildings so we made a very obvious choice to go for 2.4GHz which is far better at transmitting room to room with for fewer dropouts and a. better range any RF engineer would understand this.

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

We manufacture for customers around the globe in many regions apartment living is the norm 5GHz goes not penetrate the concrete and rebar walls of most buildings so we made a very obvious choice to go for 2.4GHz which is far better at transmitting room to room with for fewer dropouts and a. better range any RF engineer would understand this.

 
Can you please stop making it seem like the only option would have been a 2.4GHz chipset OR a 5GHz chipset, when the reality is dual band chipsets are widely available at low cost?

 

[dkulesza]

I don't disagree 2.4ghz made sense to support, but I think not supporting 5ghz was a mistake.

I'm actively eliminating 2.4ghz in my house for wifi purposes. It's easy now a days to support a robust 5ghz environment. Ubiquiti with a few APs and you can get excellent coverage.

I see why you guys support 2.4ghz, but don't see why you didn't support 5ghz when dual band support is very common.

 

[pfurey89]

I love how people are getting up in arms over 2.4ghz vs 5ghz for the transfer of relatively tiny files. We're not streaming 4k video here. It will be a non-issue for 99% of customers.