[Lobarkaine]

about cables, my bqeyz spring1 nozzle poped out when i changed tips one day and i saw the inner cable to the BA in the nozzle, it was almost as thin as a hair so these large 16 gages cables makes no sense, iem drivers requires very little power so cables can be very thin. about burn in i am also open but as with cables swap i never saw a graph before and after showing a difference, if you can hear it but can't measure it, then the difference is placebo ( which is very real (homeopathy is a 1 billion dollar business) but impossible to measure) we should accept that our perception of sound is subjective and accept that placebo is very big part of it.

This is the historical conflict between electronic technicians and audiophilers.

Personally I can't agree with you.

In my thirty years experience in the music reproduction I did a lot of tests, also blind tests to people that absolutely aren't audiophilers and don't understand nothing about cables and all of them can hear the difference between one cable and another and all describe the same difference, so It can't be a placebo effect.

Maybe we just don't know how misure this difference.

 

[amanieux]

This is the historical conflict between electronic technicians and audiophilers.

Personally I can't agree with you.

In my thirty years experience in the music reproduction I did a lot of tests, also blind tests to people that absolutely aren't audiophilers and don't understand nothing about cables and all of them can hear the difference between one cable and another and all describe the same difference, so It can't be a placebo effect.

Maybe we just don't know how misure this difference.

if cable swap was picked up in blind testing ( done the right way ) by human i am curious why it cannot be measured by a microphone, does not make much sense as high quality microphones are more sensitive than human ears. can a mic expert confirm top mics are better in both dynamic (higher frequency range) and resolution (lower amplitude sound waves being picked up) than human ears ? thanks

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

about cables, my bqeyz spring1 nozzle poped out when i changed tips one day and i saw the inner cable to the BA in the nozzle, it was almost as thin as a hair so these large 16 gages cables makes no sense, iem drivers requires very little power so cables can be very thin. about burn in i am also open but as with cables swap i never saw a graph before and after showing a difference, if you can hear it but can't measure it, then the difference is placebo ( which is very real (homeopathy is a 1 billion dollar business) but impossible to measure) we should accept that our perception of sound is subjective and accept that placebo is very big part of it.

I don't think it's that easy to explain.....impedance and sensitivity aren't placebo effect and an IEM will measure the same even if badly amped...so...there lotta mysteries going on...and placebo is the least of them...i do have several brain burn in, which is when I get use to a tonality or timbre and learn to appreciate it in its own ''sound paradigm''...inversed burn in too exist, it's when a wow effect is demystified and doesn't work anymore .
And ya, homeopathy is a scam. But naturopathy isn't and some think it is etc...
At the end, all is subjective as you say. Nobody hear the same etc. for example, i will never try to convince somebody to don't appreciate it's audio gear even if i personally think it's bad, if he does I'm sincerely happy for him.

Some people change the little soldering cable for fancy one and swear it improve the sound...

People need to test and conclude by themself if some cable can interfer on final sound restitution, a famous detractor of cable signal transmission effect was Jurgen(audioreviews)....until he discovered by himself it's own subjective proof. It was when he try to find the best cable for KBear Diamond he was tuning. Since then, he's a ''believer''.

Anyway, their a big difference between sub-100$ cable and 500$ and up ones...at they end, it's still is the smallest sound benefit return you get in audio chain imo

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

my 2 goto iems of the moment are also fh3 and heart mirror, fh3 has more bass and detail plus a better fit for my ear but heart mirror looks nicer and sounds more natural on acoustic instrument and overall more relaxed than fh3. if at the same price i'd pick the fh3 but for the $35 i paid on sale on aliexpress, HM is my budget recommendation. ps : i moded the HM with the included replacement filter to block the front vent which add more bass without getting boomy (which happens if your put microporous tape as it blocks too much air) , i just had to put regular tape around the included filter because the glue on the filter is not holding it in place after 2 weeks of regular usage, every user should try this free, easy to do and reversible mod to add warmth and bass to their HM.

yep, thats a very easy mod everybody should try if they feel the need of slight extra slam. HZM can handle EQ and lotta amping too, i really enjoy using bass gain with my Xduoo XD05+.
in fact, every time you see venting hole, try this mod on it...just for fun!
im obsess about pulling mesh off iem too, especially when i feel the dynamic is ''compressed''...or it lack air.
i do this with Spring2, KC2 and Yume.

 

[brsdrgn]

Does this cable subject have to come out in every point and especially by the people who think it's not making any difference?

It was shared on bggar's yt channel that the cables inside of IEM is very thin and it's bs to buy 3rd party cable.

By the comment about Spring 1's inside, i see the same approach. For these people, the sound is about thickness it seems. There's no other aspect about it... According to that argument, If you pass the signal through a cable, it doesn't make sense eventually because it gets thinner by the little cables inside the iem itself...


What about the signal quality which leaves your DAP, DAC or whatever you use? Do you seriously think it's the same before the cable and after the cable? For those people, it looks like yes.

Well, It's about how the signal is carried out until it reaches to those little cables inside the IEM. So, the cables do make a difference! The millions of bits of information is carried by the electrons one by one throughout the cable. The most important thing among many other factors is that they face resistance. The information flows through the cable. So, what you have before the cable and after the cable is different.


And there's another point that these people claim. Please show everything by a graph which doesn't tell you anything about the timbre, anything about soundstage, which also doesn't tell you the whole listening experience.

If you don't think(or believe but for me this is not sth to believe) cables don't make a difference, please use it with the stock cable and enjoy with your hobby...

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

Does this cable subject have to come out in every point and especially by the people who thinks it's not making any difference?

It was shared on bggar's yt channel that the cables inside of IEM is very thin and it's bs to buy 3rd party cable.

By the comment about Spring 1's inside i see the same approach. For these people, the sound is about thickness it seems. There's no other aspect about it... According to that argument, If you pass the signal through a cable, it doesn't make sense eventually because it gets thinner by the little cables inside the iem itself...


What about the signal quality which leaves your DAP, DAC or whatever you use? Do you seriously think it's the same before the cable and after the cable? For those people, it looks like yes.

Well, It's about how the signal is carried out until it reaches to those little cables inside the IEM. So, the cables do make a difference! The millions of bits of information is carried by the electrons one by one throughout the cable. The most important thing among many other factors is that they face resistance. The information flows through the cable. The object would move slow So, what you have before the cable amd after the cable is different.


And there's another point that these people claim. Please show everything by a graph which doesn't tell you anything about the timbre, anything about soundstage, which also doesn't tell you the whole listening experience.

If you don't think(or believe but for me this is not sth to believe) cables don't make a difference, please use it with the stock people and enjoy with your hobby...

Yep....in fact, this controversial subject pop up every month either on NBBA, here or somewhere else...and i do think cable ''believer'' are more humble than the detractor at they end...

I prefer reading at article like this....than reading over simplified certainty (aka: placebo effect).
https://www.psaudio.com/copper/article/cable-design-and-the-speed-of-sound-part-three/

 

[lushmelody]

This is the historical conflict between electronic technicians and audiophilers.

Personally I can't agree with you.

In my thirty years experience in the music reproduction I did a lot of tests, also blind tests to people that absolutely aren't audiophilers and don't understand nothing about cables and all of them can hear the difference between one cable and another and all describe the same difference, so It can't be a placebo effect.

Maybe we just don't know how misure this difference.

If it´s only based on human perception is a subjective matter. I do think there is something, but it's very subtle. Not the whole world of difference like some ppl claim cables to be

 

[PhonoPhi]

...The millions of bits of information is carried by the electrons one by one throughout the cable.

If true - it would truly deserve $1000+ cables.


Sorry to disappoint you - just an analogue information is carried through IEM cables (a well-known fact), and the science of this electrical signal transmission is well-understood for $100+ years.

IEM cables are just a passive load, so only their resistance matters, no AC/DC difference (inductance and capacitance are NOT significant), just uniform attenuation.

Yes, cables can make the difference, especially if IEM is made so (low impedance), and there are good graphs out there for Andromeda, @RikudouGoku made very nice measurements.

True, wires inside IEMs are very thin, but they are just few millimeters. IEM cables are 1.2 m, so they may need to be thick enough, so that their resistance would not be significant relative to the other components of the chain (source and transducers).
The best property of a good cable is just to connect your source and IEM and not being a factor (transparency).

Since only the resistance matters: copper, sliver, graphene alloys are all marketing gimmicks supported by placebo effects and pedaled by those who sell cables and their "unbiased" reviewers, it is really sad to watch it full-blown on HeadFi
Instead of using resources on developing new DAPs and IEMs, they are diverted to cables, where 80-90% of the costs is the marketing that needs to defy science to succeed

 

[Lobarkaine]

The cables argument always open a war

NinPhonomaniac and PhonoPhi very well explain their argument, I want only tell you a well known story.

Fender Stratocaster pre CBS (since early '66) are famous for their sound, mrs. Ibarra hand made the pickup but something appens after this production and the magic was gone.

Fender's engineers try in any way to replicate those pickups but without any result, the new pickups aren't worst simply have loose the magic chimey and ringing sound of the originals.

Now mrs. Ibarra do a few pickup hand made for the custom shop, are wonderful but not the same.

I personally was so lucky to may play two Strat pre CBS and I may compare them with my '72 Strat....really different beast.

No one know what's append, the pickups are made the same.

One teory is that changed the quality of the pole iron and the copper...the new one are better, more pure and change the sound.

 

[Lobarkaine]

If it´s only based on human perception is a subjective matter. I do think there is something, but it's very subtle. Not the whole world of difference like some ppl claim cables to be

I agree.

The cables may be compared to the same adjustment made by the tips, subtle but is possible ear it.

(I don't want say I'm so crazy that I've internal wired my pre and power amp with Van den Hull copper and carbon cables )

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

yeah....who give a F what underwear people use....this is the same for IEM cable. the problem are those trying to convince other to spent money on 1000$ cable OR don't spent money on a 10-20$ cable. let it be....and let's concentrate on finding the IEM GEMS instead pals!!

there a comparison i'm making of KBEAR AURORA VS TFORCE YUAN LI.


TONALITY : Aurora is a bit brighter and more treble axed, less boosted in sub bass and less lean in dynamic (more energic in attack and edge). Yuan Li have a warmer V shape to harman neutral approach, it’s smoother darker.
TIMBRE : more textured and grainy with the Aurora, less natural and organic than Yuan Li.
RESOLUTION: Crisper and richer in micro-details for the Aurora.
SOUNDSTAGE : Wider and taller with the Yuan Li, but deeper (tunnel like) with the Aurora.
IMAGING : Both aren’t that good in that department, but Yuan Li have better transparency and layering.
BASS : Warmer and sloppier, but more extended with the Yuan Li. More textured and controled with the Aurora.
MIDS : Leaner, fuller and more natural with the Yuan li, less agressive than more fowards upper mids or Aurora. Female vocal jump at you more with the Aurora while male vocal has more lower harmonic emphasis that can lead to tone unbalance.
TREBLE : Fuller, more textured and more present with Aurora, more sparkly and less thin. Greater amount of micro-details too. Lower treble is way darker with the Yuan Li.
ATTACK SPEED : Well, it seem the Aurora can deal better with ultra fast busy music track (Elephant9-Skink), and thats quite incredible really...even if i wish it sound more open and the end of the song barely kill my ears!

All in all, if your more of an Harman target fan, the Yuan Li is for you, if your more into energic near analytical soundsignature, the Aurora is there too. Tonaly, i will give it to Yuan Li, while technicaly the Aurora seem superiorr with it’s higher resolution and faster attack speed.

 

[gersomhy]

if cable swap was picked up in blind testing ( done the right way ) by human i am curious why it cannot be measured by a microphone, does not make much sense as high quality microphones are more sensitive than human ears. can a mic expert confirm top mics are better in both dynamic (higher frequency range) and resolution (lower amplitude sound waves being picked up) than human ears ? thanks

your ear and brain are much more complex than microphone. there are many cheap iem that has similar graph to thousand class iem, but they sound different right ? microphone can't comprehend timbre, imaging, so on you name it, but our ear can tell that easily

 

[Lobarkaine]

yeah....who give a F what underwear people use....this is the same for IEM cable. the problem are those trying to convince other to spent money on 1000$ cable OR don't spent money on a 10-20$ cable. let it be....and let's concentrate on finding the IEM GEMS instead pals!!

I absolutely agree!!

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

Anybody has tried the CCZ EMERALD??

Any graph available??

I don't expect that much...but they need to beat Lark.

And what about those BGGA Tripowin MELE? The hype train is quite intense about them (no wonder since its Linsoul but still...dust doesnt seem to settle!)

 

[Lobarkaine]

Anybody has tried the CCZ EMERALD??

Any graph available??

I don't expect that much...but they need to beat Lark.

And what about those BGGA Tripowin MELE? The hype train is quite intense about them (no wonder since its Linsoul but still...dust doesnt seem to settle!)

It's in my radar too.

On the way the ZEX