[PhonoPhi]

As a member of the scientific community I encourage you to reference/cite your findings with links/publications to the direct claim that you make saying: "expensive cables are a placebo effect". Thank you

In all seriousness, i'm genuinely curious as to what these studies are.

The coathanger test would be one of the prominent:
https://www.soundguys.com/cable-myths-reviving-the-coathanger-test-23553/

But it is hard not to rationalize audiophilically: those mighty steel wires surely bring the best sound compared to recent "graphene" and palladium attempts

 

[gourab1995]

The coathanger test would be one of the prominent:
https://www.soundguys.com/cable-myths-reviving-the-coathanger-test-23553/

But it is hard not to rationalize audiophilically: those mighty steel wires surely bring the best sound compared to recent "graphene" and palladium attempts

So from a brief skim of the test, what ive understood is they overlay the frequecy response generated by each of the cables and find little to no difference. That is the main reason for someone to claim that "expensive cables are a placebo effect" or is it the polls where "majority people preferred the coathangar/couldnt tell the difference"? p.s. do correct me if im wrong.

and they do conclude by saying: "The only hypothesis we were able to confirm was that fewer people would choose the high end cable over the coathanger—and we were unable to confirm the original hypothesis that few people would be reliably able to tell the difference between the two (we should have logged how many people were correct all three times)."

 

[PhonoPhi]

So from a brief skim of the test, what ive understood is they overlay the frequecy response generated by each of the cables and find little to no difference. That is the main reason for someone to claim that "expensive cables are a placebo effect" or is it the polls where "majority people preferred the coathangar"? p.s. do correct me if im wrong.

Both offer a convincing evidence that the special effects of any cable (expensive or not) needs to be proven.

 

[gourab1995]

Both offer a convincing evidence that the special effects of any cable (expensive or not) needs to be proven.

So then i understand there is no "proof" then to back that claim.... which is not what i was expecting.

From how i see it, measuring frequency response changes are inadquete. Because sound as we hear it is imaging, soundstage and frequency response combined. (I think i've covered most aspects of sound). So untill a machine is able to tell change in soundstage, imaging etc. i will have to trust the words of people who either do hear or dont hear a difference (placebo or no placebo). Till that day has come reviewers will have to be debating over cable differences

 

[Nimweth]

CCA CS16 review:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.900149/page-167
(Post 2497)

 

[PhonoPhi]

So then i understand there is no "proof" then to back that claim.... which is not what i was expecting.

From how i see it, measuring frequency response changes are inadquete. Because sound as we hear it is imaging, soundstage and frequency response combined. (I think i've covered most aspects of sound). So untill a machine is able to tell change in soundstage, imaging etc. i will have to trust the words of people who either do hear or dont hear a difference (placebo or no placebo). Till that day has come reviewers will have to be debating over cable differences

The onus should be on those who claim "better" or different properties to clearly prove it.

Expectations that any case of snake oil should be proven not to be are wrong.

It is at the core of the scientific principles, since you've tried to torture "proverbial cat" from this angle.

 

[gourab1995]

The onus should be on those who claim "better" or different properties to clearly prove it.

Expectations that any case of snake oil should be proven not to be are wrong.

It is at the core of the scientific principles, since you've tried to torture "proverbial cat" from this angle.

The onus should be on those who claim "better" or different properties to clearly prove it.- Absolutely.

In this case there seems to be no technically adept method to prove or disprove the situation. So categorizing that thing as "snake oil" is wrong in the first place, because saying that assumes that reality is grounded in that being untrue, while the reality is somewhere in the middle or is simply unknown. So the best we can do is provide a desciption of our experience, explaining the reasoning behind that experience and move on till technology has caught up, i can just feed every variable to an A.I. and there is no need for reviewers anymore, I can just ask siri about my cables

 

[unifutomaki]

It's all moot anyway when those who wish to buy replacement cables will continue to buy them and those who don't, well, won't.

Since most ChiFi IEMs do not come with a choice of cable termination, I do find myself buying them for the sake of pairing with my ZX300. So it's still useful to know which cables are cheap and high-quality - I have them favourited in my AE account for whenever I find myself needing one.

 

[PhonoPhi]

The onus should be on those who claim "better" or different properties to clearly prove it.- Absolutely.

In this case there seems to be no technically adept method to prove or disprove the situation. So categorizing that thing as "snake oil" is wrong in the first place, because saying that assumes that reality is grounded in that being untrue, while the reality is somewhere in the middle. So the best we can do is provide a desciption of our experience, explaining the resoning behind that experience and move on till technology has caught up and there is no need for reviewers anymore. I can just ask siri about my cables

Cables are just conductors. The science is well-known. (Again, new science must be proven).

If "fancy attentuators" are sold, I would buy them only when they properties are clearly documented.

Sorry to continuing these, but I take those "graphene" cables now sold everywhere as direct insult to the community intelligence

 

[unifutomaki]

Cables are just conductors. The science is well-known. (Again, new science must be proven).

If "fancy attentuators" are sold, I would buy them only when they properties are clearly documented.

Sorry to continuing these, but I take those "graphene" cables now sold everywhere as direct insult to the community intelligence

I find that there's a lot of audiophile marketing out there that is specifically meant to target relatively well heeled boomers who don't actually know what they are buying. We know better. Well, I hope.

Example:

 

[PhonoPhi]

It's all moot anyway when those who wish to buy replacement cables will continue to buy them and those who don't, well, won't.

Since most ChiFi IEMs do not come with a choice of cable termination, I do find myself buying them for the sake of pairing with my ZX300. So it's still useful to know which cables are cheap and high-quality - I have them favourited in my AE account for whenever I find myself needing one.

I do buy new balanced cables for every IEM, and enjoy their different colours and designs greatly.

The comfort and flexibility help the fit and seal, and it is the easiest not to have cables as a factor in the sound - just your music, DAP and IEM!

 

[unifutomaki]

I do buy new balanced cables for every IEM, and enjoy their different colours and designs greatly.

The comfort and flexibility help the fit and seal, and it is the easiest not to have cables as a factor in the sound - just your music, DAP and IEM!

Indeed. Stock cables may not be functionally defective per se (unless you bought a TRN, heh heh) but they aren't particularly well made or enjoyable to touch. My Moondrop SSR stock cable, for instance, has started to oxidise at the connectors, develop a sticky feel in the hand, and lose its flexibility. So if I like an IEM and intend to keep it, I will treat it to a decent cable that doesn't have to cost a lot these days.

 

[Winni]

Wow, is there no moderator here?

There is a cable section in an other part of the forum, this is the Chifi Earphone discovery and impression thread

 

[JEHL]

I wonder if it's still considered a very broad yet weird limitation... What are general recommendations for IEM that can be bought from Amazon within $50.

 

[Milner]

Too add fuel to the fire....Personal anatomy (fit, tips, how our canals are shaped, wax, congestion, atmospheric pressure, etc) and hearing damage has a much greater effect on what each of us hears then a almost unmeasurable difference in wire resistance, quality, conductance will ever make. If you simply like them better that is awesome! no need in arguing over it, no need to justify it. if you are happy, that's all that maters. Enjoy the music. Just food for thought.