Cen.Grand DSDAC 1.0 Deluxe - ending point in my search for a new reference

[rsbrsvp]

I'm wondering if users of the Deluxe model find USB to be the best input- or not necessairly?

It is often hard to do a "input comparison" because often it is the difference in the cables that make the sound different.... rather than the input itself...

 

[project86]

Thanks for the kind words everyone! Hopefully people find the project useful, even if they were just interested in one of the other DACs I mentioned. Some great options in there - I could happily live with the Merason, Rockna, Meitner, or particularly the Wavelength. Others like the Esoteric and Atoll were quite good as well.

Not sure if I made it clear but there were plenty of others that I disliked so much as to not even bother including at all. The whole process involved over 30 DACs, and the ones that didn't make the cut were pretty bad. Even the models I didn't love for one reason or another (such as the Lab12, Aavik, and Audio Research) were much, much better than the ones I did not include. Some rather big brands and popular models in there too...

I don't think it's fair to drop names and not explain why I disliked them. So I'll just leave it alone.

Thank you for this! Wow it must a great but fun task to be able to compare lots of high end DACs. I myself considered DSDAC deluxe edition as an upgrade, but I ended up with Lumin P1, as I want a more simple setup with one box streamer/dac and the P1 has fiber optic input which in my opinion really makes a difference. Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy reading your journey and enjoy this marvelous DAC!

As I mentioned somewhere in my writeup, Lumin definitely knows what they are doing. I'm sure that P1 is a beast. And there's a lot to be said for getting the streamer, DAC, and preamp all in one box. Hope you enjoy it for a long time!

I'm wondering if users of the Deluxe model find USB to be the best input- or not necessairly?

It is often hard to do a "input comparison" because often it is the difference in the cables that make the sound different.... rather than the input itself...

I personally feel the inputs are all pretty much equal. Or at least close enough to where I would use any of them without feeling like I was missing out.

For me the decision would come down to my transport and what sounds best or works best from that end. Like some transports only have USB, so that's obvious. But some have a bunch of options yet maybe AES or BNC sounds best - in those cases I'd happily use that format, knowing the Cen.Grand wasn't really picky either way.

The only other issue is playback compatibility if your library has lots of DSD128 and above, or PCM higher than 192khz. Which frankly is very very unlikely. But if that's the case you'll want to go with USB since (as usual) it goes way higher than the others.

 

[DenverW]

Thanks! The Merason is an exceptional DAC, hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Maybe not the flashiest thing in the world but well built, attractive, and most importantly, killer sound. Did you get the original or the mk2? I guess you can send back the OG model and get the upgrade for a fee, but I don't remember how much that is.



Looking forward to reading your thoughts as well. I sort of suspect the Super Clock is the value choice of the trio, but I can't be sure (and maybe I don't want to admit that to myself...)

Mine is the original merason. As I got it used im not sure about footing the bill for the upgrade to mk2, as the cost to upgrade @2500 is nearly what I paid for the merason dac1 itself!

 

[project86]

Mine is the original merason. As I got it used im not sure about footing the bill for the upgrade to mk2, as the cost to upgrade @2500 is nearly what I paid for the merason dac1 itself!

I wouldn't worry about it then, sounds like you got an amazing deal for an exceptional sounding device!

 

[gimmeheadroom]

History
Long story short: I've been using a Resonessence Labs Invicta DAC as my reference for over a decade. Thankfully Invicta was more of a platform than an individual DAC (think Schiit Yggdrasil) and thus did not remain stagnant during those years. It started with the original ($3999) and evolved multiple times, culminating with the Mirus Pro Signature Edition at nearly $8K. I absolutely loved that device and despite comparisons to others costing more than double the price, I never found anything that spoke to me quite on that same level. I was fully prepared to continue using it as my reference well into the future.

Absolutely EPIC! Thank you!

I saw one reference to speakers, do you do most of your listening on headphones?

Have you had a chance to hear the R7 HE series of Audio-gd DACs? I have a lower model and I'm delighted with it. I haven't heard anything in your list though.

 

[FOUNDERZERO]

Any owners here experience audio latency when using this DAC while watching videos or other visual media? Considering the Deluxe model as my next DAC, but latency could be a dealbreaker for me.

Thanks!

 

[schlaget]

I cannot notice any latency over USB.

 

[dsyzling]

@project86 Thank you for an extremely detailed and thorough explanation of your DAC search - I think it provides an excellent context for the discussion of the Cen Grand and your reasons for choosing the product. I was also unaware of the Silver Fox headphone amp which equally looks interesting.

I presume the Deluxe is called the Advanced edition? That's the only top tier version I can see on retailer's web sites in the UK?

Presumably since the Cen Grand can accept DSD 512 via USB you can use fix the dac at DSD 512, use HQPlayer to convert PCM and up sample to DSD 512 and this would bypass the internal algos/filters passing the content directly to the 1-bit converter? I guess what I'm asking is that in this context does the dac act as a NOS dac and to take advantage of alternative external filters and modulators?

 

[project86]

@project86 Thank you for an extremely detailed and thorough explanation of your DAC search - I think it provides an excellent context for the discussion of the Cen Grand and your reasons for choosing the product. I was also unaware of the Silver Fox headphone amp which equally looks interesting.

I presume the Deluxe is called the Advanced edition? That's the only top tier version I can see on retailer's web sites in the UK?

Presumably since the Cen Grand can accept DSD 512 via USB you can use fix the dac at DSD 512, use HQPlayer to convert PCM and up sample to DSD 512 and this would bypass the internal algos/filters passing the content directly to the 1-bit converter? I guess what I'm asking is that in this context does the dac act as a NOS dac and to take advantage of alternative external filters and modulators?

Yes, the actual DAC itself mentions "Advanced Version" on the front panel, but the manufacturer and distributor have been referring to it as "Deluxe" right from the very start. I don't know why they went with different terminology. I actually feel like "Advanced" is just as accurate as "Deluxe" so I don't really care either way.

To my understanding, the otherwise mandatory DSD upsampling process can be bypassed when feeding it DSD128 or above. But I don't know what the internal process actually looks like - I'm not sure if it would really be NOS in those circumstances, or if there is still some other processing taking place. Maybe @cengrand might be able to explain more.

I have not played with feeding it higher rate DSD material via HQplayer or Roon. So I can't say whether that sounds better/worse/different than the integrated DSD conversion process. I will try to do that comparison when I get a chance but it could be a while.

 

[Lucus]

Woul be very interesting to know if the basis version has already all qualities and sound attributes you mentionned in your excellent review...I personnally don't think that an even better clock would be audible by human ears, so the "super clock" version seems not very a good choice...and the DeLuxe version is more than double the price of the standard one !
Who had the chance to listen/test the standard version, which for me seems the best "bang for bucks" deal ?

 

[Rayon]

It would be so amazing to make this fight with Holo May, both fed by HQPlayer generated DSD1024. May is already so incredible that to win it, the artist would actually need to crawl out of Susvara

 

[amigastar]

Great Review. I would love to hear this DAC but one can dream.

 

[Lucus]

It would be so amazing to make this fight with Holo May, both fed by HQPlayer generated DSD1024. May is already so incredible that to win it, the artist would actually need to crawl out of Susvara

The problem with Holo May is that it has no volume control: You need a preamp, which is a shame given the price/quality of the gear. It remains to be introduced by Holo: Digital volume control on their DACs. Only then would they be of interest for me

 

[project86]

Woul be very interesting to know if the basis version has already all qualities and sound attributes you mentionned in your excellent review...I personnally don't think that an even better clock would be audible by human ears, so the "super clock" version seems not very a good choice...and the DeLuxe version is more than double the price of the standard one !
Who had the chance to listen/test the standard version, which for me seems the best "bang for bucks" deal ?

I have yet to hear feedback from anyone using the standard version. I'm sure there are plenty of them out there but none that have spoken up so far. Perhaps at this point there are more of them "in the wild" in China, and their owners are hanging out on different forums rather than HeadFi?

But I do think it would be really interesting to see how much difference it makes between each version. Most DACs don't give you the opportunity, and it's probably easier to release separate designs (even if they are pretty similar) using different model names.

It would be so amazing to make this fight with Holo May, both fed by HQPlayer generated DSD1024. May is already so incredible that to win it, the artist would actually need to crawl out of Susvara

The DSDAC tops out at DSD512 over USB, so you couldn't feed it anything higher via HQPlayer. I have messed with HQP and Roon for upsampling just a little, comparing it to the integrated Cen.Grand DSD upsampling, and so far I like the internal solution better. But I would have to do much more listening to really form a solid conclusion.

Great Review. I would love to hear this DAC but one can dream.

Thank you fellow Resonessence Labs user!

The problem with Holo May is that it has no volume control: You need a preamp, which is a shame given the price/quality of the gear. It remains to be introduced by Holo: Digital volume control on their DACs. Only then would they be of interest for me

It's definitely a situation where you are alienating some number of users no matter what you do.

If I use an external headphone amp (or integrated speaker amp) then maybe I don't have any need for volume control on my DAC, and might feel it's a waste of money or potentially hurting the SQ of the DAC with zero benefit to me.

On the flip side, if a device doesn't have volume control, and I need it... well, that DAC is off my list.

If a brand has a large portfolio of models then they can cover all the bases for different functionality. If not, I guess all I can ask for is internal consistency, where their models avoid overlapping features. Cen.Grand does that so far with their DSDAC/Silver Fox combo. And if I recall correctly, Holo Audio does that as well with the May/Bliss combo. The problem arises when people mix and match brands but I'm not sure how a company is supposed to account for that.

 

[slazhx]

Not sure whether all Cen.Grand gears (especially DSDAC 1.0 and Silver Fox) are single or dual (110-230) voltage. I've recently read somewhere that there is a configurable switch underneath the unit, but not sure if it is Cen.Grand ...

Can you help me with this? @ArthurPower