Cen.Grand DSDAC 1.0 Deluxe - ending point in my search for a new reference

[kumar402]

A review has recently been posted: Srajan Ebaen Review.

TL;DR: he purchased the review unit.

I see he compared it against Pasithea which gives me context but a very unique review style, have to say.

 

[geoffalter11]

I see he compared it against Pasithea which gives me context but a very unique review style, have to say.

I always go to Srajan's last page and read his conclusion as I can't follow his writing style. There is no doubt he knows his stuff, but he is like reading Nabokov for audio. haha...

 

[geoffalter11]

I have a Hibiki SDS signature which I would guess produce a similar sonic result to the DSDAC 1.0. It is the most wonderful sounding dac I ever heard by far. Sonic density, smoothness, explosive transients, tonality to die for. I have heard some of the best R2R dacs out there and non come close- certainly not for tonality and sonic density..... WIthout a doubt, the most musical instrument I ever had in my system by far.

I must say- I'm curious to compare the Delux edition of the DSDdac 1.0 to my Hibik with external 10 mhz clock. I have a hunch the result would be similar.

Perhaps the designer could chime in on this comparison.....

I would love to hear these two DACs side by side. I think there are a lot of similarities in sound and performance. The Cen.Grand is extremely dense with amazing tonal color, plenty of resolution and wonderful musicality. For me, it has been a revelation in my system. I absolutely love the way it marries with my CFA3, which I know is your chain as well. From what I've read, the Hibiki is one seriously good DAC. I would love to hear both on our CFA3s. Perhaps we should meet half way, which would be the Azores in the middle of the Atlantic. Should we meet in the Azores for an audio vacation and bring our gear?

 

[rsbrsvp]

I would love to hear these two DACs side by side. I think there are a lot of similarities in sound and performance. The Cen.Grand is extremely dense with amazing tonal color, plenty of resolution and wonderful musicality. For me, it has been a revelation in my system. I absolutely love the way it marries with my CFA3, which I know is your chain as well. From what I've read, the Hibiki is one seriously good DAC. I would love to hear both on our CFA3s. Perhaps we should meet half way, which would be the Azores in the middle of the Atlantic. Should we meet in the Azores for an audio vacation and bring our gear?

The CFA-3 does indeed bring out the best in any source as it really mirrors the source in the cleanest, most honest way possible. The last thing I want from a headphone amplifier is added coloration because the DAC does it so so well- I just want to amplify its output without change...

 

[rsbrsvp]

The Hibik does DSD 1024 in 5 bit instead of standard 1 bit. I really dont know what this means- but it is a varient of DSD 1024; not the standard.

Here is what it says online about it:

Straight-up SDM1024, 5bits

As the DA core, we use a high-order sigma-delta modulator, both pcm and dsd are directly modulated to a 5-bit 1024 times rate. Generally speaking, modulation of 1 bit is DSD, but five bits are inherently more than 1 bit of information, which is 2 to the 5th power, which is 32 times, and the signal-to-noise ratio is also 30db. Generally, the internal modulation frequency of the DA chip is 256 times, which can quantify The noise is pushed to 50k, but the SDS modulation frequency is 1024 times, which can push the quantization noise to 100k, with more high-frequency information and richer details.

 

[jianhuideng]

DSDAC 1.0 is a full DSD audio DAC because its final DA conversion process is on 1bit, not multibit.

Any DA conversion process that is on multi-bit cannot be called DSD dac.

DSDAC 1.0 has a multi-bit process in the signal processing and the final output is 1-bit data. Turning data into multi-bit is a simple task, but turning multi-bit data into 1-bit data is very difficult. This is not an electronic problem, but a mathematical one. That's why only very few brands can make 1bit DAC.

DSDAC 1.0 is a true DSD DAC, once we have solved the mathematical challenge of converting multiple bits to 1 bit.

 

[rsbrsvp]

DSDAC 1.0 is a full DSD audio DAC because its final DA conversion process is on 1bit, not multibit.

Any DA conversion process that is on multi-bit cannot be called DSD dac.

DSDAC 1.0 has a multi-bit process in the signal processing and the final output is 1-bit data. Turning data into multi-bit is a simple task, but turning multi-bit data into 1-bit data is very difficult. This is not an electronic problem, but a mathematical one. That's why only very few brands can make 1bit DAC.

DSDAC 1.0 is a true DSD DAC, once we have solved the mathematical challenge of converting multiple bits to 1 bit.

I see. Hibiki never claimed it was a dsd dac but I assume because of the very high up sample rate, it might sound similar to your dac. The sound of the Hibiki SDS signature dac is certainly extraordinarily Tonally saturated and round while at the same time, presenting fantastic speed and explosiveness.

How does your dac differ from ps audio perfect wave dac which really does seem to be doing the same process as your dac? What I mean is conversion of all formats to True dsd???

 

[geoffalter11]

I see. Hibiki never claimed it was a dsd dac but I assume because of the very high up sample rate, it might sound similar to your dac. The sound of the Hibiki SDS signature dac is certainly extraordinarily Tonally saturated and round while at the same time, presenting fantastic speed and explosiveness.

How does your dac differ from ps audio perfect wave dac which really does seem to be doing the same process as your dac? What I mean is conversion of all formats to True dsd???

The biggest difference I hear between those two DACs is that the Directstream sounds soft and mushy to me, whereas the Cen.Grand doesn't. It is extremely muscular sounding with great weight to the notes and tons of air. I think sonically it sounds pretty similar to your Hibiki from how you describe it. Meitner and Playback are probably closest to the Cen.Grand in philosophy from what I can tell, but the Cen.Grand is definitely doing it their own way. I think Jianhue (owner and designer for Cen.Grand) could answer this question better than I. But, that is what I have experienced...

 

[rsbrsvp]

The biggest difference I hear between those two DACs is that the Directstream sounds soft and mushy to me, whereas the Cen.Grand doesn't. It is extremely muscular sounding with great weight to the notes and tons of air. I think sonically it sounds pretty similar to your Hibiki from how you describe it. Meitner and Playback are probably closest to the Cen.Grand in philosophy from what I can tell, but the Cen.Grand is definitely doing it their own way. I think Jianhue (owner and designer for Cen.Grand) could answer this question better than I. But, that is what I have experienced...

Thanks. IMHO, the Hibiki is indeed extremely muscular, but not extremely airy…. Not ethereal sounding, but mega solid tonal colouration…. Not mushy at all to ears, but yes indeed, very round…. While still exhibiting very good resolution. So if the cen. Grand is airy, that would be a distinction from the Hibiki based on what my ears are hearing.

 

[kumar402]

I see one of the DAP from Cayin also claims to be 1 Bit DAP
Is it the same logic as this one
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cayin-n7-a-voyager-of-unexplored-frontier.966860/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...xplored-frontier.966860/page-24#post-17422765

 

[Pharmaboy]

I see he compared it against Pasithea which gives me context but a very unique review style, have to say.

"unique" to the point that I can barely make it through one of his reviews. I like how he thinks--some of his observations and comparisons are insightful IMO--but not how he writes up what he thinks. The word for his style is "discursive," constant hoping from subject to subject, often without sufficient warning or context.

If he were an airplane, he'd fly to the airfield he intends to land on, then circle it endlessly until he runs out of gas & lands in a hay field.

PS: then again, for years he has written bylined reviews available online and (for all I know) in print--so I'm the fool here, not him.

 

[geoffalter11]

"unique" to the point that I can barely make it through one of his reviews. I like how he thinks--some of his observations and comparisons are insightful IMO--but not how he writes up what he thinks. The word for his style is "discursive," constant hoping from subject to subject, often without sufficient warning or context.

If he were an airplane, he'd fly to the airfield he intends to land on, then circle it endlessly until he runs out of gas & lands in a hay field.

PS: then again, for years he has written bylined reviews available online and (for all I know) in print--so I'm the fool here, not him.

I always feel like I am reading a William Faulkner novel when I read his stuff. Except with punctuation... Actually closer to Vladimir Nabokov. I never understand his examples and the things he relates to in his reviews. I know he is smart, I know he writes well, I just don't understand it. Just like I don't understand Nabokov's writings. Lolita was a difficult read.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I always feel like I am reading a William Faulkner novel when I read his stuff. Except with punctuation... Actually closer to Vladimir Nabokov. I never understand his examples and the things he relates to in his reviews. I know he is smart, I know he writes well, I just don't understand it. Just like I don't understand Nabokov's writings. Lolita was a difficult read.

Hey, leave Vladimir alone! The man's a genius & Lolita is brilliant satire at its core, sending up (among other things) our obsession with youth.

Besides, English was his 2nd language...

 

[geoffalter11]

Hey, leave Vladimir alone! The man's a genius & Lolita is brilliant satire at its core, sending up (among other things) our obsession with youth.

Besides, English was his 2nd language...

He is an absolute genius. His writings are some of the best and most difficult to fully comprehend of any writer in the 20th century.

 

[Pharmaboy]

most difficult to fully comprehend of any writer in the 20th century.

I can absolutely & permanently refute this.

EXHIBIT A: "Finnegan's Wake" (by James Joyce)