[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by S Smith /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is the way to do it. There is so much good stuff out there for next to nothing. Plus, I like supporting local brick and mortar.

But you are not supporting the artist either by buying used. How's that any better than people who download MP3s? At least people who download loads of MP3s may find a new artist they like and go buy the CD. Lots of people use pirating to "demo" and not steal. An MP3 is not an exact duplicate of a CD anyway so nothing was stolen.

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMarchingMule /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...That comment just fails on so many levels, I can't even imagine where to start criticizing it.

OK, chew on this one. I pay for my internet access so if I did download some MP3s then I paid for it. Do you pay for every movie you watch on TV besides what you already pay to your cable TV provider? If you record a movie off the TV do you pay for that also? Every argument is winnable.

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Trent's a ******, and he stole this idea (and most of his good ideas) from his old friends in Pigface.

And Pigface stole the idea from Abbie Hoffman.

Vintage Vinyl:Steal This Book

"Steal This Book is, in a way, a manual of survival in the prison that is Amerika. It preaches jailbreak. It shows you where exactly how to place the dynamite that will destroy the walls.The first section-SURVIVE!-lays out a potential action program for our new Nation. The chapter headings spell out the demands for a free society. A community where the technology produces goods and services for whoever needs them, come who may.It calls on the Robin Hoods of Santa Barbara Forest to steal from the robber barons who own the castles of capitalism. It implies that the reader already is "ideologically set," in that he understands corporate feudalism as the only robbery worthy of being called "crime," for it is committed against the people as a whole.Whether the ways it describes to rip-off **** are legal or illegal is irrelevant. The dictionary of law is written by the bosses of order. Our moral dictionary says no heisting from each other. To steal from a brother or sister is evil. To not steal from the institutions that are the pillars of the Pig Empire is equally immoral."

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlekiin /img/forum/go_quote.gif He does not even come close to Skinny puppy and Ministry but that is a matter of taste.

Yes, it is. Neither Ministry nor Skinny Puppy have ever written one song with as much depth as 'The Day The World Went Away' or 'Something I Can Never Have'.

 

[KONAKONA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkweg /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, chew on this one. I pay for my internet access so if I did download some MP3s then I paid for it. Do you pay for every movie you watch on TV besides what you already pay to your cable TV provider? If you record a movie off the TV do you pay for that also? Every argument is winnable.

You paid for the internet, not the MP3. It's like buying a loaf of bread and waiting for it to mold, and saying you paid for the mold. Moreover the other guy was using paying for the internet to justify downloading the song.

Also, please learn to use the multiquote feature. No use for quadruple posting.

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, please learn to use the multiquote feature. No use for quadruple posting.

As I said, 'every argument is winnable'. It's just a matter of perspective and not right or wrong.

I reply as I read and don't read the whole thread and then reply. I have no idea if I am going to reply to the next posts or not because I never read them yet. You have no right to tell me how to post anyway so drop it.

 

[Iosys]

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I download mp3s all the time via .ru sites, because it's extremely cheap. Because it's extremely cheap, I download stuff I've never heard of - I'm not risking much. If I find a diamond in all that rough, I very soon want to hear it as it should be, at better than mp3 bit rates. So, I end up buying the CD anyway and ripping it to FLAC. Bottom line, it all works for me. I don't care about torrents, etc. I buy mp3s where I do because the quality is consistent as mp3s go. Maybe I'm the exception, but I doubt it. I think electronically ditributable music (even that which passes around for free) inevitably increases sales for bands with a worthy sound. After all, mp3 quality is the absolute minimum for my ears.

As far as Trent being a ******, etc, he's written and performed an amazing catalog of work that many artists would envy. Everything's a matter of taste at the end of the day, but on planet earth there's no denying he got his status honest.

 

[userlander]

I stopped going to the library because it's just wrong to steal from all those authors. Especially the dead ones! :-o

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmilhan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sadly, neither do the artists...

I do buy concert tickets.

But I don't think there's anything unethical about buying used. A CD is a physical object, each new owner doesn't have to register it and pay a fee.

The other point is that I listen to a lot of dead artists and composers. Maybe their estate would get a cut off a CD sale, but often the music is public domain with all profit going to the record company. Also, quite a few artists have sold their catalogs, so they don't get any more income from sales.

Also forgot to mention that buying discs directly from a band is fine. I do that now and then and am glad the artists get to keep the money.

 

[DBrim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif You paid for the internet, not the MP3. It's like buying a loaf of bread and waiting for it to mold, and saying you paid for the mold. Moreover the other guy was using paying for the internet to justify downloading the song. Also, please learn to use the multiquote feature. No use for quadruple posting.

It's more like you paid for the gas to drive to the store, so you can take whatever you want from it.

It's not a winnable argument to justify piracy in that way. Sorry.

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I don't think there's anything unethical about buying used.

The computer game industry thinks so. They hate the fact we can buy used games and they don't get a cut of the sale. They are trying to put a stop to the practice even.

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBrim /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's more like you paid for the gas to drive to the store, so you can take whatever you want from it. It's not a winnable argument to justify piracy in that way. Sorry.

OK, then I fall back on the quote from Abbie Hoffman that I posted earlier. You certainly can not win that argument.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif I stopped going to the library because it's just wrong to steal from all those authors. Especially the dead ones! :-o

It wouldn't be stealing because you paid for those books with your tax dollars.

 

[nsx_23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I buy used.

I do this as well. There's a CD shop in the city that I often go to since they're cheap and make good recommendations.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif A few things: 1) buying from Big Music actually mostly supports the record label and not the artist, since the labels rip off the artists just as much as they rip off the customers, if not more so. 2) file-sharing is actually financially beneficial to independent artists, since it allows them to be discovered by many more people, and the majority of people that pirate music are never going to be paying customers in the first place. Targeting them and making sure that they can't pirate music isn't going to put more money into your coffers since these people were never your customers to begin with. They can't afford your music and they aren't suddenly going to start paying money they don't have. File-sharing lets the music spread to more people and some of those people have the means to pay for it. And in my experience, they usually do. Simply to support the artists and the independent labels that support them. The industry is killing itself by raising prices, cracking down on file-sharing, and attempting to max out revenue by appealing only to the lowest common denominator. Instead it needs to focus on offering a better product - lossless downloads, no DRM or draconian licenses, and of course better music. However this won't happen IMO and big labels will crash and burn, lashing out at people and destroying lives in the process until they're finally in hell where they belong, and in their place independent labels will become the norm and be more successful - until that is they conglomerate and become the new Big Music, and the cycle will repeat ad nauseum.

Ding Ding, excellent post.

I love when people argue about album sales and their royalties. The money artists make from albums sold by most labels is truly pathetic. Most artists make money by touring and selling merchandise. If you REALLY want to support a band, buy a bunch of T-shirts and posters at their concert. They get back a much higher percentage from that than CD sales.

I will be honest: I try before I buy. If I like it, I will buy the album. To say what I am doing is stealing is beyond stupid. I would not have been exposed to much of the music I like (= no sale) if it were not for the internet download scene. The RIAA had better jump on the train, because the road to riches is mass exposure due to downloading by people like me who are willing to pay but need a way to find the friggin' music. Lousy radio and promos have nothing on downloading. There are many potential customers, but they have not heard the product yet. Downloading is the key.

Before anyone says, "but that's piracy!!!" Nuts to that argument. It's called those who are able to pay will pay, and those who will not pay will NEVER pay. Downloading is not the enemy, cheap people are...