[captblaze]

Burning in electrical components and conductors is a given in the desktop/2-channel space, so I'm not sure why it's so controversial in portable audio devices. If someone feels that burn-in isn't an issue or a factor, that's fine too. Most of the hobby is about 'perception' anyway.

Sure, but burn in is a variable. How do you keep tuning consistent if you are relying on a change to occur which you can't quantify?

 

[gLer]

Sure, but burn in is a variable. How do you keep tuning consistent if you are relying on a change to occur which you can't quantify?

I would assume tuning is done with fully 'burned-in' components. If engineers prescribe burn-in, then they're going to be using fully burned or broken-in components for actual testing/tuning, not fresh caps, opamps etc. out the box. Again, this is my assumption, maybe someone in the know can verify.

 

[OhmsClaw]

I would assume tuning is done with fully 'burned-in' components. If engineers prescribe burn-in, then they're going to be using fully burned or broken-in components for actual testing/tuning, not fresh caps, opamps etc. out the box. Again, this is my assumption, maybe someone in the know can verify.

I measure components/systems and repair for a living in the RF and Microwave ranges.

There is no such thing as burn in. This exists only in Audiophilia.

There IS such thing as temperature/thermal equilibrium which DOES makes an impact on discrete, particularly r2r, style topologies.

Measured performance and perhaps experienced listening will slightly change depending on the thermal state of the system. But this should not be permanent nor significant otherwise there is an engineering failure.

 

[Polky74]

I don't know if burn-in has anything to do with electronic components, but it certainly has to do with our brain and helps us to perceive sounds as something "known" and therefore to appreciate iem/headphones better. This is for sure. Just do a simple test... take some iems/headphones out of the drawer that you haven't used for some time and start listening to them... at first they will seem strange and they sound bad... keep listening to them for a few hours and then tell me if you don't think they sound much better than straight out of the drawer. This is burn-in... but not of the IEMs/headphones... but of your brain and how you perceive sound.

 

[dgjl]

If the RU7 (or any other device) is known by the engineers and the sellers to need burn in to sound its best, it should be done at the factory. That way the consumer gets the OOTB experience that they are paying for.

 

[urid]

Yes USB cables are complete snake-oil BS, as long as they are properly shielded, there should be ZERO differences when switching between USB cables. They differ drastically from actual audio cables because the purpose of the USB cable is to simply transmit data and provide power. Audio cables on the other hand deal with everything in the analog domain so there are minute differences in copper vs silver for example.

This is not the Thread about Digital Cables - it is about the RU7.
If some one want to discuss about this topic - please send me PM, i will be glad to explain.

 

[Sonic Defender]

This is not the Thread about Digital Cables - it is about the RU7.
If some one want to discuss about this topic - please send me PM, i will be glad to explain.

What would you explain? It is normal, here and elsewhere for threads to drift off-topic. They usually drift back on-topic again, but NO thread unless it is extremely niche or very quiet, always stays on-topic. Often the off-topic chat leads to very useful discussions relevant to the main thread topic. I say unless it becomes overly distractive or denigrates into fighting and mean-spirited conversation that it be left to organically develop.

Not to mention, with a device such as this where the USB cable could be an area where people get "encouraged" to waste money on unnecessary things, such as anything other than a decently made USB cable that can be bought for $20, probably even for less, it makes such related discussions relevant. Now those who have a stake in such products probably don't want the discussions public as their goods sell best when not examined very closely, and certainly never discussed using an evidenced based approach.

The RU-7 sounds like it is a great product. I am enjoying reading about it very much and if I hadn't gone Bluetooth years ago for all my portable headphone needs, I probably would seriously consider it. I may even get one yet.

 

[Jimmy34]

If the RU7 (or any other device) is known by the engineers and the sellers to need burn in to sound its best, it should be done at the factory. That way the consumer gets the OOTB experience that they are paying for.

Same with computer monitors but they aren't calibrated at the factory, so I'm sure it's same with these for burn-in, also hasn't burn in showed no differences on a graph and if there was some it was something humans couldn't even notice.

 

[dgjl]

Same with computer monitors but they aren't calibrated at the factory, so I'm sure it's same with these for burn-in, also hasn't burn in showed no differences on a graph and if there was some it was something humans couldn't even notice.

Yep - it was the Cayin rep on this very thread, though, that said the RU7 needed burn in, so they must believe it at Cayin...whether we do or not...

 

[urid]

What would you explain? It is normal, here and elsewhere for threads to drift off-topic. They usually drift back on-topic again, but NO thread unless it is extremely niche or very quiet, always stays on-topic. Often the off-topic chat leads to very useful discussions relevant to the main thread topic. I say unless it becomes overly distractive or denigrates into fighting and mean-spirited conversation that it be left to organically develop.

Not to mention, with a device such as this where the USB cable could be an area where people get "encouraged" to waste money on unnecessary things, such as anything other than a decently made USB cable that can be bought for $20, probably even for less, it makes such related discussions relevant. Now those who have a stake in such products probably don't want the discussions public as their goods sell best when not examined very closely, and certainly never discussed using an evidenced based approach.

The RU-7 sounds like it is a great product. I am enjoying reading about it very much and if I hadn't gone Bluetooth years ago for all my portable headphone needs, I probably would seriously consider it. I may even get one yet.

Well here is your mistake, specially with USB cable for Dongles - Most of the Dongles get their power from the phone battery. Shanling made their UA5 with inner battery to power the amp section.
Therefore - the "Quality" of the 5V DC has a drastic affect on the amp operation. The USB wires ahs much to contribute to the DC quality.
Also - standard USB wires are 2 data twisted + 2 Power twisted and both twisted to each other causing several electronic effects that "hurts" the sound.
separating the DC from the DATA wires is the goal, i've done those test with Neotech 1020 wires and many other comparisons.
This is why DDHIFI 09 usb line with separate DC/DATA is the correct way.
As the importance of the wire (in my eyes) - i also bought 2 of the same phones, put the same files and APK and did a very thorough test with USB+C cables using the same dongle (Eraman Sparrow). The results are very clear - HQ aftermarket cable DO sound and perform better.

 

[urid]

Start-Up Warm time!
Long time ago - when the RU6 just went out, me and my friend decided to do a test.
Since i had 2 same phone for those testings - i' connected the RU6 and let it play for an hour.
My friend came over with his "Cold" Ru6 and we connected it to the second phone with same USB wire ( from Sparrow kit).
The difference in sound were not small but HUGE in the favor of the "Warm" Ru6.
From that moment - I and my friend, we never "test" units without a warm-up time even dongles.

 

[twister6]

So if I were to own one Lightning cable it should be the MFi07S?

I can only speak from my own personal experience. Of course, there are no issues when using Android phones, Windows pc/laptops, Macbooks, or iPads, only related to iPhone and their current limitation. And this could only affect you when driving demanding headphones (high impedance, lower sensitivity, or current hungry planar magnetic at higher volume) and want to use DSD256. We are talking about the extreme iPhone users case where I found ddhifi MFi07S to get the job done. It is a bit more expensive then other $20-$30 usb-c to lightning cables. Googled it and see @Andrew DiMarcangelo has it on Bloom for $48. But that cable looks so damn sexy and has a lot better build quality then others.

Alright, done talking about cables , time to start focusing on the sound of RU7

 

[Polky74]

To those who have compared the RU6 with the RU7, I wanted to ask how much of the musicality of the RU6 can be found in the RU7 (DSD64) and how much more detail does the new dongle present compared to the RU6? Does the RU7's features place it somewhere between an R2R and a DS, or is it closer to one of the two? Thank you.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Well here is your mistake, specially with USB cable for Dongles - Most of the Dongles get their power from the phone battery. Shanling made their UA5 with inner battery to power the amp section.
Therefore - the "Quality" of the 5V DC has a drastic affect on the amp operation. The USB wires ahs much to contribute to the DC quality.
Also - standard USB wires are 2 data twisted + 2 Power twisted and both twisted to each other causing several electronic effects that "hurts" the sound.
separating the DC from the DATA wires is the goal, i've done those test with Neotech 1020 wires and many other comparisons.
This is why DDHIFI 09 usb line with separate DC/DATA is the correct way.
As the importance of the wire (in my eyes) - i also bought 2 of the same phones, put the same files and APK and did a very thorough test with USB+C cables using the same dongle (Eraman Sparrow). The results are very clear - HQ aftermarket cable DO sound and perform better.

Evidence for these claims.

 

[NAD Fi]

Thank you so much fo taking your time to test the power drain of RU7. While our testing approach are different, the results suggested that RU6 and RU7 are drawing similar power from your mobile source, at least on DSD64 and DSD128. The DSD256 setting will drive the chip that perform the All-to-DSD function to its extreme, hence increased the power drain significantly.

We have two options during the R&D of RU7. Limited the RU7 All-to-DSD to DSD128, or provide all three DSD64/DSD128/DSD256 options knowing that iPhone will not be able to use the DSD256 option because of the power limiter limitation. Obviously we took the latter option. We believe the first option is a safe choice if we consider RU7 as an "consumer electronics" product. However we believe the audiophile spirit is to not limit ourselves by the lowest denominator. We don't think All-to-DSD256 is an all-round winner when compare to All-to-DSD64 or All-to-DSD128, but it does offer some advantages when pair with certain IEMs or play back certain songs, or meeting certain user preferences.

The sound analysis of your RU7 quick impression has explained our decision loud and clear. We are looking forward to your complete RU7 review after the discrete DAC circuit is burned in.

Cayin made the right decision in leaving it to the user to select whatever DSD settings is preferable. Fair warning is provided that iPhones will have hiccups at DSD256 due to power limitations; but I use DSD256 anyway because that’s my choice .