[ClieOS]

Honestly I don't even think it is.

Question from my side: If the RU7 uses some kind of SRC chip for the conversion, isn't this just a DSD DAC?
Why not call it a discrete DSD DAC? Oh, maybe licensing...

While Cayin didn't elaborate, RU7 (and N7) discrete 1 bit DAC design seems to be directly descended from Signalyst DSC1 (*the first open hardware design of its kind as far as I know) - and Signalyst DSC1 release date is well documented at April 18th, 2014. The design didn't go mainstream for a few more years, or you can even say it hasn't really go mainstream yet.

The SRC chip is there to convert all incoming audio data to DSD format (*which is digital to digital conversion, or transcoding), but it doesn't do the Digital-to-Analog Conversion. That's the job for the 1 bit discrete circuit. RU7 is in every essence an DSD DAC since '1 bit' is mentioned. I am assuming Cayin wants to keep the focus on 1 bit because many DAC chip out there that can decode DSD is not purely 1 bit chip. They are often multi-bit PCM chip that do internal DSD-to-PCM conversion automatically without user knowledge. So saying a DAC that can do DSD doesn't automatically make it a 1 bit chip, but a 1 bit DAC chip is however always a pure DSD DAC.

 

[zolom]

The only thing that matters to me is how does it sound. Is it more enjoyable than the RU6? Listning with Focal Stellia and Fir Xe6.

The Line Out functinality is a very good option (to be connected to my iFi iCan Pro).

 

[Ben86]

The only thing that matters to me is how does it sound. Is it more enjoyable than the RU6? Listning with Focal Stellia and Fir Xe6.

The Line Out functinality is a very good option (to be connected to my iFi iCan Pro).

I would like to know the same. Especially sound comparison ru7 vs ru6.

 

[Andykong]

I'm a bit confused about RU7's native DSD output. Hopefully you can explain it here.

I'm thinking about buying the RU7 for desktop use. Tidal streaming, YouTube streaming, and local FLAC file playback. They're all in PCM, so will the RU7 play back these signals bit perfect or will it be lossy? Will there be degradation if it's converting to DSD and PCM back and forth? Thanks.

Gonna pickup at my Fav Audio46.
Off-Topic but even cheap-o CD Players without 3 second anti skip back in the day would always advertise as 1-Bit DAC player (is this the same thing or different?)

Dunno how good RU7 will be, but at least I think it will work just like any USB dongle. While discrete 1 bit DAC is fairly new, DSD itself has been around since the 90's on various audio devices (i.e. like those old CD player mentioned on previous post) so you might have came across a 1 bit DAC in your life and not know about it.

Dunno how good RU7 will be, but at least I think it will work just like any USB dongle. While discrete 1 bit DAC is fairly new, DSD itself has been around since the 90's on various audio devices (i.e. like those old CD player mentioned on previous post) so you might have came across a 1 bit DAC in your life and not know about it.

Thank you ClieOS for the prompt explanation.

If you are interested in the history of 1-bit DAC, please take a quick look at the explanation I wrote in N7 DAP. I have included a small section on the history of 1-Bit DAC as well as several modern high-end 1-Bit players/DAC for your reference. For the record, the Philips TDA1547 1-Bit DAC chip first appeared in Marantz CD11LE back in 1989, and for the next 10 years, there were quite a lot of 1-Bit-based CD players from Philips and Marantz. Since SACD was announced in 1999, so 1-Bit DAC was roughly 10 years older than DSD format.

During our R&D process, we used Philips DAC7 (i.e., SAA7350 + multiple TDA1547) as our design reference. We have also reviewed other pure 1-Bit DAC implementations, including Sony and Signalyst DSC1, but all these are too bulky and power-hungry for portable applications, so we consolidate our search and fall back to our R01 experience, building Audio bridges and dedicated power supply system to facilitate our resistor network DAC circuit.

 

[soundblast75]

Am i understanding correctly that on iPhone im unlikely to get the best of the dongle?

 

[Laleo]

I heard both dongles at the high End, and they are both mighty impressive for the price.

I preferred the RU7 for its bigger stage and smoother presentation while my brother preferred the RU6 since it sounded more impactful and energetic.

Both were a huge upgrade to the outputs of our Smartphone

I wish they were Bluetooth....

 

[alota]

Am i understand correctly that on iPhone im unlikely to get the best of the dongle?

Yes. With ru6 and android never had problems

 

[autoexec]

I don't buy into the technology limits excuses, There's other tiny low powered fpga/chips that can be used (the tiny L&P w4 dongle also have eq ability - albeit presets non user editable)

RU6/7 are niche products. They're not designed to be "feature rich". If the breakthroughs Cayin were able to achieve in these dongles does not appeal to you then why bother? The fact that these R2R and 1-bit DAC dongles exist right now and that they sound great is more than what I would have hoped for (i.e. just a very good implementation of off the shelf DAC chips). It's like asking why a very skilled samurai / martial artist that dedicated his whole life to the art why isn't he doing more generic stuff like going to the office, etc. When something is very specialized, you kind of already expect that it lacks more generic stuff.

I'd much prefer just a simple answer of they don't have the budget/scope/team to do DSP based processing with good UX.. I hope they change this stance soon, things are moving fast nowadays and DSP is more common, even Fiio with their BTR7 have done a nicely flexible EQ and will be doing more devices with that architecture.

Indeed. And Cayin is way ahead in the market in terms of "actual R&D" and sheer SQ.

 

[Polky74]

RU6/7 are niche products. They're not designed to be "feature rich". If the breakthroughs Cayin were able to achieve in these dongles does not appeal to you then why bother? The fact that these R2R and 1-bit DAC dongles exist right now and that they sound great is more than what I would have hoped for (i.e. just a very good implementation of off the shelf DAC chips). It's like asking why a very skilled samurai / martial artist that dedicated his whole life to the art why isn't he doing more generic stuff like going to the office, etc. When something is very specialized, you kind of already expect that it lacks more generic stuff.

.... speechless, indeed only one... great!

 

[InvisibleInk]

RU6/7 are niche products. They're not designed to be "feature rich". If the breakthroughs Cayin were able to achieve in these dongles does not appeal to you then why bother? The fact that these R2R and 1-bit DAC dongles exist right now and that they sound great is more than what I would have hoped for (i.e. just a very good implementation of off the shelf DAC chips). It's like asking why a very skilled samurai / martial artist that dedicated his whole life to the art why isn't he doing more generic stuff like going to the office, etc. When something is very specialized, you kind of already expect that it lacks more generic stuff.


Indeed. And Cayin is way ahead in the market in terms of "actual R&D" and sheer SQ.

Wouldn’t want a guy with a katana and those skills in the office, anyway.

 

[NAD Fi]

Wouldn’t want a guy with a katana and those skills in the office, anyway.

I could use that guy’s skills to negotiate my pay increase.

 

[oldkid]

@Andykong I have just read your entire 1bit DAC explanation post and found it brilliant. As I have said, RU7 feels like it has been specially designed for me because I'm a USB dongle DACs collector and a huge DSD enthusiast. I have quite a few native DSD recordings and find that vinyl to DSD capture doesn't sound digital at all. I have also recabled all my IEMs with balanced cables.

I haven't listened to it yet, but from what I understand, RU7 is a outstanding audio engineering achievement. It's the world first pure DSD DAC in the USB dongle form factor

 

[Andykong]

Am i understanding correctly that on iPhone im unlikely to get the best of the dongle?

That depends on your choice of IEM. If your IEMs are not particularly difficult to drive, and you are unlikely to use full-size headphones with your Dongle, then I would say you can enjoy the best of the RU6/RU7 with iPhone.

 

[daijobudes]

That depends on your choice of IEM. If your IEMs are not particularly difficult to drive, and you are unlikely to use full-size headphones with your Dongle, then I would say you can enjoy the best of the RU6/RU7 with iPhone.

Mest Mk2 and Anole V14?

 

[Andykong]

Mest Mk2 and Anole V14?

Just checked, the Mest MK2 is rated at 112db and the Anole V14 is rated at 105-108 dB SPL/mW (depending on the setting of the IEM). I don't think you hit the power limiter of your iPhone based on these specifications.