Cayin RU7: 1-Bit Resistor Network Dongle DAC /Amp
May 19, 2023 at 7:40 AM Post #166 of 2,148
That means ,like RU6, I'll assume some people with iPhone and a power hungry headphone might not get to use the full power on RU7. That's something to keep in mind. Lucky my Xperia 1 IV powers RU6 just fine, even when maxed out.
Even W2 won’t work in its full potential with iPhone, I would say around its 80%. W1 and Lotoo in my experience worked around at 95% its potential on iPhone. I not mean a pushing the power, but sound quality from a iPhone with easy to drive iems is less compared to using with Macbook.
In term of power, even iFi Go Bar from iPhone not able to drive my modded DT770 80ohm from the balanced output. 🙂
While from Macbook, W2 can handle the balanced DT770 80ohm. 🙂
Don't expect more then 100-150mW power from iPhone. 🙂
So not much reasons to buy them to use only on iPhone. Will see, if future iPhones with type-c fix that or not. 🙂
 
May 19, 2023 at 9:02 AM Post #168 of 2,148
So next step should be a 1bit card for the N6ii? But maybe n6ii is already too old to propose a new card
That would be really daring, so incredible! But I don't believe it... 🙁

@Andykong Make us dream 😂
 
May 19, 2023 at 9:03 AM Post #169 of 2,148
RU7-44.jpg


RU7: An Irresistible Upgrade

A Quick Recap


The RU7 is Cayin's second portable USB DAC/Amp. We learned a lot from RU6, we want to repeat the formula and do it better.

RU6 incurred the R-2R DAC technologies from R01 Audio Motherboard of N6ii DAP, and they were roughly 6 months apart. By the time we finalized the circuit design of N7 DAP, we know we should do this again, so we establish the RU7 as a high-priority project, hoping that the more affordable Dongle DAC will pass down the 1-Bit DAC technology to a larger group of users.

The RU7 is equipped with three major upgrades when compared to the very well-received RU6 R-2R Dongle DAC:

Fully Balanced DAC architecture.

While reviewers and users appreciate 1-bit DAC technologies as natural, smooth, and realistic when compare to their analog experience in the practical world, they are inevitably not as popular as their PCM counterparts. The not-so-impressive measurements have hesitated a lot of vendors to devote their resources to 1-bit DAC. In addition, the existing solutions are far too bulky and consumed too much power for personal audio, so we didn’t have any 1-Bit DSD DAC implementation for DAP or even transportable DAC/Amp. for many years. To introduce 1-Bit DAC to portable users, Cayin offered our in-house developed micro-miniaturized 1-bit DAC circuit from fully discrete components in N7 DAP, and we passed down the DAC circuit design to the RU7 Dongle DAC almost as soon as we could.

We have provided a detailed explanation of 1-Bit DAC technologies and explained our implementation in Pure 1-Bit “DSD” DAC Explained. We can't use the FPGA technologies from N7 here because it was oversized and drained too much power for the Dongle application. We simplified the Audio Bridge in N7 by adopting a hardware solution to take care of the All-to-DSD transcoding and upsampling. This implementation enables the RU7 to decode up to DSD256 natively, and it will handle PCM up to 384kHz flawlessly.

While the DAC of both RU6 and RU7 are resistor-network based, the 96 pieces (2x48) resistor network in RU6 is a stereo (2-ch) R-2R implementation, the 128 pieces (4x32) resistor network in RU7 is a fully balanced 4-ch DAC design. Although we need to convert the DAC output to single-ended for subsequent processing, the fully balanced DAC can render more detail and preserve more dynamics of the music. If we treat R-2R and 1-Bit as two different but equal engineering approaches to convert the digital audio bitstream to the analog waveform, the fully balanced design in RU7 will still be a step up from the singled-end design in RU6, and it can be marketed as a very pricy upgrade in audiophile marketplace.

By the way, RU6 and RU7 employ the same 0.1% 25ppm high precision thin film resistor (with different values). So if material means a lot to you, they are equivalent in quality and RU7 has an upper hand in quantity. :sunglasses:


RU7 Sales Guide 02 DAC.jpg


RU7-6.jpg



Parallel Driven Dual Phone Amplifiers

The RU6 track record suggested that our Dongle DAC is well-received by mobile phones (Android and iPhone), tablets, notebooks, and desktop computer users, and there is a niche group of users that use RU6 with their DAP. We want to provide an upgrade headphone amplification to as many users as possible with RU7, so we revised the circuit to parallel dual amplifiers, delivering 80% more power when balanced driven with similar overall power consumption.

The parallel amplification circuit of RU7 behaves differently from RU6. When driven at the same output voltage, parallel amplification will deliver more current. I paired the two Dongle DAC with Meze Liric volume matched, the RU7 offers better control and playback in a calm and at-ease manner. The difference with a 3.5mm single-ended phone out is less obvious, but when switching to a 4.4mm balanced, the edge of RU7 becomes more noticeable.

While Android phone and Tablet/notebooks/PC users will enjoy the extra power completely, iPhone users will also be benefited from the new parallel amplifier if they are using IEMs, we have tested many IEMs with iPhone+RU7 and drive them to abnormally loud levels, none of them triggered the power limiter in or test. However, if you are using demanding headphones or IEMs (especially some of the high-impedance earbugs), the power limiter will remain an issue. You might need to acquire a splitter/charger such as ddHiFi TC28i Pro lightning to USB-c OTG and power adapter. This adapter adds another USB-C power port specifically for charging (review HERE), hence defeating the power limiter of your mobile phone.


RU7 Sales Guide 03 Amp.jpg



Shared 3.5mm and 4.4mm Line Out

This is the most wanted feature in the RU6 thread, period.

We disagree from the engineering perspective because the resistor network DAC behaves differently from highly integrated DAC chipsets. In short, thermal noise is the more dominating noise pattern in RU6 and RU7 and the noise level will increase when you turn up the volume, i.e., warming up the PCBs. This pattern is not causing a lot of problems because in regular applications. When you turn the volume of your Dongle DAC to a very high level, most likely you are using a hard-to-drive low-sensitivity IEM or headphones, and these headphones are, in most cases, immune to background noise. On the other hand, if you are using the Dongle DAC as a line out, you need to drive the dongles fairly hard. Some users set the dongle volume to 100 when they use it as Line out. No doubt this will introduce thermal noise into the system. and then the noise will feed into your desktop or home audio system and be amplified the second time. That explained why we are reluctant to introduce shared line out in discrete resistor network Dongle DAC.

Since we don't have the space to implement a dedicated "unamplified" line out in the Dongle, a shared line out will drive the headphone amp to work at a fairly high load, hence warming up the circuit board and the space inside the Dongle. As a result, this will increase the thermal noise in the DAC circuit, hence not a desirable implementation.
Given the demand, we have implemented the shared line-out feature in RU7 because the 1Bit DAC is relatively more stable than R-2R DAC on thermal interference. Since this is a fixed voltage output from the phone amplifier, so they
are not significantly different from manually setting the phone out to a specific gain/volume setting, but this is more complicated than setting the volume to maximum and calling it a day. We measured the output carefully and determined an optimized setting that will retain the resolution and dynamic of the RU7 circuitry while controlling the noise and distortion at an acceptable level, and we ended up with 1.2V for singled-end and 2.4V for balanced. For the record, this is significantly lower than the standard line-level output of our DAPs, but it should work conveniently when you switch between phone out and line out in the RU7 menu.

We must emphasize once again that this is a shared line out only, it is inferior to an unamplified dedicated line out for sure. In addition, since RU7 does not have an MCU built in, we can't implement a protection mechanism to reset the line out back to phone out whenever you unplug your 3.5mm/4.4mm connection, so please be reminded SERIOUSLY that you must switch the output back to a phone out immediately when you disconnect the line out cable from RU7. While the 1.2V/2.4V output level is not terribly high, it can still be alarming if you are using very high-sensitive IEM.

RU7-21.jpg
 
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May 19, 2023 at 10:38 AM Post #170 of 2,148
Even W2 won’t work in its full potential with iPhone, I would say around its 80%. W1 and Lotoo in my experience worked around at 95% its potential on iPhone. I not mean a pushing the power, but sound quality from a iPhone with easy to drive iems is less compared to using with Macbook.
In term of power, even iFi Go Bar from iPhone not able to drive my modded DT770 80ohm from the balanced output. 🙂
While from Macbook, W2 can handle the balanced DT770 80ohm. 🙂
Don't expect more then 100-150mW power from iPhone. 🙂
So not much reasons to buy them to use only on iPhone. Will see, if future iPhones with type-c fix that or not. 🙂
An iphone 100 to 150mw output....where?
 
May 19, 2023 at 10:44 AM Post #171 of 2,148
Ladies and gentlemen, live from Munich!


Miniaturized N7!

I have listened with the Meze 109 PRO and it definitely sounds good!


Finally updated the opening post and I can read the thread from the start again. :beerchug:
By the way, the package is a mod-up, the official RU7 package box is still on its way. If you look at the Dongle DAC printed on the box carefully, you'll notice the NOS label on the screen. :grin:
 
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May 19, 2023 at 11:07 AM Post #172 of 2,148
Which technology is better in terms of SQ - r2r or 1bit? 🤔
I agree that neither one sounds better and they share but also distinct signatures.

Owning both HiBy RS8 (R2R) and Cayin N7 (1bit), I wouldn't say one is better than the other and they both share a natural resolving and analog tonality with N7 being more transparent and airier treble. Owning N8ii, N7, RS8 and other Delta-Sigma DAPs, N7's 1bit slots in between RS8 and N8ii.

Which DAC chipset sounds better AKM or ESS?
Maybe we can compare the SNR or dynamic range of DAC chipset, but that doesn't mean we can compare their SQ.

Likewise, we can't really compare the SQ of R-2R or 1-Bit, they are proven audio technologies and there are many extremely good sounding DAC based on these technologies.

Maybe we can narrow down the question to Which implementation is better in terms of SQ - R-2R in RU6 or 1-Bit in RU7.
 
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May 19, 2023 at 11:32 AM Post #173 of 2,148
It is already something that is not superior...

If you are looking for high-output power but low power consumption, you probably are looking at the wrong place.

If efficiency matters, then highly integrated chip-based implementation such as W4 stands a much bigger chance. RU6 and RU7 use discrete components in DAC and volume control, there is no way we can compare them with highly integrated IC products. Imagine you can replace the 132 resistor network and the discrete resistor relay volume controller in RU7 with one or two DAC chipsets with digital volume built-in, then you can figure out why we are not aiming at lowering the power consumption in our new Dongle DAC. TBH, if lower consumption is "the" requirement, we can throw discrete DAC out of the window already.
 
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May 19, 2023 at 11:53 AM Post #174 of 2,148
@Andykong i do not understand one thing if i´m correct: according to diagram, the dac is balanced, after the signal is converted to unbalanced to feed the control volume, after this the signal is converted in balanced trough the second op-amp that recreates the differencial signal. wasn't it more logical to follow from the dac with a balanced volume and then the two op-amps in balanced mode one per channel?
 
May 19, 2023 at 11:54 AM Post #175 of 2,148
Yes this is the main question! Will the LO of RU7 be equal, lower quality or maybe higher quality then N7 LO? :L3000: I guess it may be equal but I'm afraid it will be lower quality because up front it is a "shared" LO where N7 has a dedicated LO.

@Andy, I guess understand you will probably not want to comment on sound quality differences but would you be willing to enlighten us on the technical differences between the two DAC (N7/RU7) and their LO signal path?

I seldom comment on the sound quality of the product I represent, but I have no problem discussing the technical differences between our products. I actually do that quite often. :smile:

In sort, RU7 line out is a convenience feature, it didn't bypass the headphone amplifier, and is inferior when compared to line out of N7.

I have written a short paragraph to explain the line-out implementation of RU7, please go to the opening post, and scroll down to the "Shard 3.5mm and 4.4mm Line Out" paragraph, hopefully, that should provide a good understanding of the line-out implementation of RU7.
 
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May 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM Post #176 of 2,148
Lower noise floor than the RU6? I have an Andromeda Ti that I love to use with my RU6, but I need an iematch to avoid hiss (Damn Campfire.) I'll probably wait for a larger jump. Congrats on the new product!

By measurement, the RU7 has a slightly higher noise level than RU6. That is inevitable when RU7 is rated at 400mW while RU6 is rated at 213mW only. To a certain extent, noise is directly proportional to rated output, you can't lower the noise when you almost double the output.
 
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May 19, 2023 at 12:10 PM Post #177 of 2,148
If you are looking for high-output power but low power consumption, you probably are looking at the wrong place.

If efficiency matters, then highly integrated chip-based implementation such as W4 stands a much bigger chance. RU6 and RU7 use discrete components in DAC and volume control, there is no way we can compare them with highly integrated IC products. Imagine you can replace the 132 resistor network and the discrete resistor relay volume controller in RU7 with one or two DAC chipsets with digital volume built-in, then you can figure out why we are not aiming at lowering the power consumption in our new Dongle DAC. TBH, if lower consumption is "the" requirement, we can throw discrete DAC out of the window already.
Nothing is thrown out the window here... lol
Indeed I saw that some stores already have it for sale, so when will it be available in the Cayin store on Aliexpress? The RU6 that arrived to me last week is dying to meet the new little brother RU7...
 
May 19, 2023 at 12:39 PM Post #178 of 2,148
I have the mojo 2 and i really like it. I was thinking of buying the RU6 to get to hear the much hyped R2R analogish sound. But now i am wondering would the RU6 offer that variety in sound or the RU7.
Can someone explain the characteristics of a 1bit discrete resistor dac in RU7?
I have written a short paragraph to explain the DAC implementation of RU7, please go to the opening post, and scroll down to the "Fully Balanced 1-Bit DAC architecture" paragraph, hopefully, that should provide a good understanding of the 1-Bit DAC implementation of RU7.

The 1-Bit DAC of RU7 is a simplified version of N7 1-Bit DAC, if you are interested to read more about our 1-Bit DAC technologies, check out the DAC explanation in N7 thread.
 
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May 19, 2023 at 12:41 PM Post #179 of 2,148
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May 19, 2023 at 12:44 PM Post #180 of 2,148
Please add lightning connectors in the package as retailers will not be stocking or offering the lightning connectors.

Any 5V lightning to USB-C connectors will work well with RU7. If your Cayin dealer didn't stock the CS-L2C cable, you can look for other options such as the OEOTG Digital Cable, at around US$30
 
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