Cayin RU6: R-2R USB Dongle DAC with Head-Amp | Page 17 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

felix3650 · Nov 22, 2021 at 1:01 PM

I'd rather have better resistors in a resistor ladder network than PMEQ or line out. The later requires filtering and noise reduction which needs an output section of its own..
Given the size of the RU6..well..

alota · Nov 22, 2021 at 1:31 PM

i don´t understand question about equalizer. usually when i use a dongle, the equalizer is embedded in apps like UAPP or similar

emilsoft · Nov 22, 2021 at 1:39 PM

twister6 said:
If R01 didn't have room for a proper LO, it's quite unrealistic for RU6 dongle either

Also, if you want PEQ in an app, wouldn't it be just a matter of picking the right app that support PEQ? Neutron is a good one.

The problem with software PEQ is that it's non global... youtube, apple music, youtube music, Logic Pro, video games, etc etc - this is why eq DSP is great. I didn't think much of it but once I got it with RME ADI 2 it's difficult to live without it.

I really like Neutron, but no support for Apple music

InvisibleInk · Nov 22, 2021 at 2:24 PM

twister6 said:
If R01 didn't have room for a proper LO, it's quite unrealistic for RU6 dongle either

Also, if you want PEQ in an app, wouldn't it be just a matter of picking the right app that support PEQ? Neutron is a good one.

Have iPhone, so no Neutron…

emilsoft · Nov 22, 2021 at 2:25 PM

InvisibleInk said:
Have iPhone, so no Neutron…

There is neutron on IOS too

Andykong · Nov 22, 2021

emilsoft said:
I hope we get parametric EQ... in the announcement, or one day...

emilsoft said:
The problem with software PEQ is that it's non global... youtube, apple music, youtube music, Logic Pro, video games, etc etc - this is why eq DSP is great. I didn't think much of it but once I got it with RME ADI 2 it's difficult to live without it.

I really like Neutron, but no support for Apple music

I don't want to hold you up. There won't be any EQ feature in RU6. No multi-band EQ, No PMEQ.

Several users and myself have explained the limitation of USB DAC dongle already, and suggest to implement EQ in the source equipment (mobile phone or computer) instead of the USB dongle. This is especially true to RU6 when R-2R DAC circuit has taken up most of the space available in the dongle already. We understand that you have strong preference on EQ in DAC, I am sure there are other DAC products that provide such feature, I wish you all the best in finding the best product that fit your need.

We have discussed several EQ App in Android platform that can serve as a global EQ control for third party applications. Check HERE if you are interested. I am not familiar with iOS mobile device but there is no reason why these app can't be implemented in iOS platform. On the other hand, if anyone want to use their mobile phone as audio source to your personal or home audio system, iOS mobile devices are not ideal choice to start with IMHO.

InvisibleInk · Nov 22, 2021 at 3:03 PM

emilsoft said:
There is neutron on IOS too

Didn’t know that; thought it was Android-only. Good solution for local file library. Not so much for streaming apps.

emilsoft · Nov 22, 2021 at 3:14 PM

Andykong said:
I don't want to hold you up. There won't be any EQ feature in RU6. No multi-band EQ, No PMEQ.

Several users and myself have explained the limitation of USB DAC dongle already, and suggest to implement EQ in the source equipment (mobile phone or computer) instead of the USB dongle. This is especially true to RU6 when R-2R DAC circuit has taken up most of the space available in the dongle already. We understand that you have strong preference on EQ in DAC, I am sure there are other DAC products that provide such feature, I wish you all the best in finding the best product that fit your need.

That's ok. I'm just hopeful if eq is mentioned enough by customers and competition is getting more heated with hardware DSP, it might become a more common occurrence. Perhaps a firmware update for the RU6 one day even if it doesn't look like reality now

Andykong · Nov 22, 2021 at 3:37 PM

cristian4 said:
Hi all!)
Maybe anyone know will RU6 support mqa?

cristian4 said:
yes, but I hope maybe they don't provide all information. I'm asking because other Cayin products support mqa(n6,n8, n3pro)

cristian4 said:
you're totally right ) But we have an example of Lotoo paw s1/s2(with this feature) ..So I hoped that maybe Cayin also provide this "optional" feature)

blotmouse said:
Correct, It can't. Or at least no one has made it possible yet.

No current r-2r player supports MQA (afaik) as its licensed tech with a cost associated, easily implemented in off the shelf chips like AKM and ESS (sometimes even embedded), but not so in custom creations like this discrete ladder network.

If you are planning on using MQA as a format for your music, you will only be able to listen to r-2r via SW rendered 1st unfolds (up to 96kHz) Mostly that is just fine, and if you follow any info on the MQA conspiracy and artifacting, it's even the preferred way to listen with less measured file alteration.

Thank you @blotmouse for explaining the limitation of R-2R and MQA implementation. I share the same observation with you as I didn't know of any R-2R DAC are MQA certified. I can't go into detail of MQA implementation because I am bounded by NDA with Cayin and MQA, but even when someone are brilliant enough to incorporate MQA technologies in R-2R DAC, it won't be a DAC dongle because we just don't have the space, power and budget to provide the necessary DSP power.

@cristian4
Cayin has incorporated MQA technologies in N3Pro, N8 and A01/A02/T01/E01/E02 Audio Motherboard of N6ii. Unfortunately we can't incorporate MQA to our R-2R product, namely R01 Audio Motherboard. The RU6 incurred the R-2R technologies from R01, and therefore it is technically infeasible to incorporate MQA in RU6. I am not saying MQA is not feasible in USB DAC dongle. If Cayin were to design a DAC dongle with off-the-shelf DAC chipset that can support MQA (for examle, ES9068AS), we can certainly include MQA support effectively.

emilsoft said:
That's ok. I'm just hopeful if eq is mentioned enough by customers and competition is getting more heated with hardware DSP, it might become a more common occurrence. Perhaps a firmware update for the RU6 one day even if it doesn't look like reality now

There will never be any EQ feature in RU6, not now, not by firmware update. We just don't have the extra DSP processing power in RU6 to facilitate that. We have devoted all the DSP processing power to support the R-2R design. If you take some time to look at our R01 Audio Motherboard, you'll aware that there are a lot of pre-processing need to be done BEFORE R-2R decoding can take place.

Skev · Nov 22, 2021 at 3:41 PM

The whole ethos behind R2R & Stepped Antenuator dongle is completely in the opposite direction to DSP & EQ. Two different worlds in my opinion. You have to know what you want.

It's like wanting a pure analogue driver's track car then expecting traction control and ABS!

Andykong · Nov 22, 2021

Skev said:
The whole ethos behind R2R & Stepped Antenuator dongle is completely in the opposite direction to DSP & EQ. Two different worlds in my opinion. You have to know what you want.

It's like wanting a pure analogue driver's track car then expecting traction control and ABS!

or PMEQ with turntable as source.

Thank you for your insight, we know we can't please everyone when we decide to go this route.

Skev · Nov 22, 2021 at 4:18 PM

Exactly my point

I'll definitely keep my eye on people's impressions and reviews on this one. I'm intrigued.

dumpsterfire · Nov 22, 2021 at 5:21 PM

Andykong said:
Thank you @blotmouse for explaining the limitation of R-2R and MQA implementation. I share the same observation with you as I didn't know of any R-2R DAC are MQA certified. I can't go into detail of MQA implementation because I am bounded by NDA with Cayin and MQA, but even when someone are brilliant enough to incorporate MQA technologies in R-2R DAC, it won't be a DAC dongle because we just don't have the space, power and budget to provide the necessary DSP power.

@cristian4
Cayin has incorporated MQA technologies in N3Pro, N8 and A01/A02/T01/E01/E02 Audio Motherboard of N6ii. Unfortunately we can't incorporate MQA to our R-2R product, namely R01 Audio Motherboard. The RU6 incurred the R-2R technologies from R01, and therefore it is technically infeasible to incorporate MQA in RU6. I am not saying MQA is not feasible in USB DAC dongle. If Cayin were to design a DAC dongle with off-the-shelf DAC chipset that can support MQA (for examle, ES9068AS), we can certainly include MQA support effectively.

The lack of MQA support is one of the reasons I'm interested in the RU6!

emilsoft · Nov 23, 2021

Skev said:
The whole ethos behind R2R & Stepped Antenuator dongle is completely in the opposite direction to DSP & EQ. Two different worlds in my opinion. You have to know what you want.

It's like wanting a pure analogue driver's track car then expecting traction control and ABS!

I understand there is no DSP capacity in the ru6 to deal with this, it just wasn't designed with dsp eq in mind. That's ok, just a little disappointing for me as I was hopeful in this day and age we would see more dsp solutions for digital

AxelCloris · Nov 23, 2021 at 11:00 AM

As a heads up, we've removed some posts that were starting to veer away from the topic of the RU6 and into more general discussion. We invite everyone who would like to share their thoughts on the more broad topics of EQ and DSP in mobile DACs to join us in the Members' Lounge, and ask that this thread please remain focused towards the RU6. Thanks everyone, we appreciate your understanding. Now back to the RU6.