[WDitters]

They'll have to put a port on both sides to keep us all happy! I hate them on the top. Puts strain on cables having to take a 180 degree turn back toward me if the DAP is on my desk. I'm sure the cables would be fine but if they come out of the bottom of the DAP there is no strain and more length available to move around.

Thank god for rotation control .. On devices that do not offer a quick way of rotating the screen in one of the slide down menus, I typically install this...

 

[pkcpga]

True, isn’t that the new Norm? Let’s name it Norm!

Actually, if a new MCU with appropriate solution is available, a purist DAP is still feasible.

Contrast to what you have stated, non-streaming high-end DAP is possible because once we enter the high-end domain, we are working on a very niche market and users are after ultimate performance instead of feature. In addition, customers in this small segment, quite often, own more than one high-end DAP "to compliment different needs", so we don't rule out any possibilities. The problem is that we are unhappy with the MCU available, its like trying to cook a good cuisine but we don't have the flour we are looking for.

On the other hand, streaming is a must to entry level and mid-level DAP. The closer you are to the mass market, features and quantifiable quality become more important.

I think this is an extremely old thought pattern, I connect my Nautilus speakers and Chord Dave to streaming as well as downloaded. It’s 2022, non streaming devices are mostly obsolete in my opinion, besides an extreme micro market. I could care less if the DAP was 5-10k if it was the best DAP in the market with sound and features I’d consider standard in todays market like playing Qobuz and Tidal along with saving playlists for offline play from these apps. Why download 2TB of music on a DAP when I can rotate downloading playlists and save memory space and time by doing this. The specs on the N8ii sound great so far but things like keeping up with popularly selling high end DAPs by offering streaming apps is no longer an option unless you’re looking to only sell a couple hundred. This is coming from someone who has a large vinyl collection and 3 high fi turntables and a few tube amps. If I’m listening to digital might as well be convenient.

 

[brams]

Lack of streaming on a high end DAP is a non-starter for me. That was not always the case and in fact when I purchased my last high end DAP I did so knowing it did not offer native streaming because I wanted to "focus on ultimate performance". However, after listening and comparing to a lot of different TOTL daps it is now my opinion that what little performance compromise (if any) a DAP makes by offering streaming is minimal relative to differences in how each manufacturer tunes their offering, synergy with different headphones, mood at the time of listening, listening acuity and listening preferences.

The ability to listen privately to whatever I want wherever I want and to explore new music at will is something I can not give up.

To satisfy those who still insist that streaming results in an audible sonic compromise I wonder if it is possible in a dap to offer a pure mode where all hardware, operations, etc. related to streaming could be disabled? For example a non-streaming DAP with the option to add a streaming module would be cool. Questyle tried to do this in a manner by allowing users to use their phone as the streaming module by connecting to their QPM dap, but the need to carry two devices is not optimal.

 

[horatiu]

Well, from someone that has TBs of digital music on a HDD, I couldn't care less about streaming. I can also rotate playlists by replacing the files on the player with new ones from my hard drive.
I am not arguing that streaming isn't useful and I understand it can be very convenient, but it's not that necessary for everyone.

However, if a DAP has streaming capabilities, one is not forced to use this feature. I assume any DAP will have an internal memory or a card slot. So, if streaming has a detrimental effect on sound quality, one can simply not use streaming.

My DAP has streaming, but I switch off all connections (WiFi and Bluetooth), I keep it in airplane mode. I very much doubt that in this way the sound quality or battery life are affected in anyway whatsoever.

 

[aaf evo]

Well after that underwhelming wm1z-mk2 reveal I am officially fully on board the N8ii train.

Can't wait to see what Cayin brings to the table.

 

[GiullianSN]

Well after that underwhelming wm1z-mk2 reveal I am officially fully on board the N8ii train.

Can't wait to see what Cayin brings to the table.

Where did you see the new Sony?

 

[aaf evo]

Where did you see the new Sony?

They should be on the website for jp

 

[Loftprojection]

yes PLEASE, some more info, teasers, dates... it's been quite a while now that we are patiently waiting.

 

[rocketron]

Where did you see the new Sony?

Don’t bother.
Another let down.

 

[Nostoi]

Well after that underwhelming wm1z-mk2 reveal I am officially fully on board the N8ii train.

Can't wait to see what Cayin brings to the table.

I'm already putting my pocket money to one side.

You got this, Cayin!

 

[GiullianSN]

Don’t bother.
Another let down.

hahaha, from what I saw, it was definitely NOT a let down to me. I love the 1Z and they added the only thing needed to make it perfect (to me), streaming services.

But I will wait the N8II to decide where to go.

 

[Giru]

Lack of streaming on a high end DAP is a non-starter for me. That was not always the case and in fact when I purchased my last high end DAP I did so knowing it did not offer native streaming because I wanted to "focus on ultimate performance". However, after listening and comparing to a lot of different TOTL daps it is now my opinion that what little performance compromise (if any) a DAP makes by offering streaming is minimal relative to differences in how each manufacturer tunes their offering, synergy with different headphones, mood at the time of listening, listening acuity and listening preferences.



The ability to listen privately to whatever I want wherever I want and to explore new music at will is something I can not give up.



To satisfy those who still insist that streaming results in an audible sonic compromise I wonder if it is possible in a dap to offer a pure mode where all hardware, operations, etc. related to streaming could be disabled? For example a non-streaming DAP with the option to add a streaming module would be cool. Questyle tried to do this in a manner by allowing users to use their phone as the streaming module by connecting to their QPM dap, but the need to carry two devices is not optimal.

Well, from someone that has TBs of digital music on a HDD, I couldn't care less about streaming. I can also rotate playlists by replacing the files on the player with new ones from my hard drive.

I am not arguing that streaming isn't useful and I understand it can be very convenient, but it's not that necessary for everyone.



However, if a DAP has streaming capabilities, one is not forced to use this feature. I assume any DAP will have an internal memory or a card slot. So, if streaming has a detrimental effect on sound quality, one can simply not use streaming.



My DAP has streaming, but I switch off all connections (WiFi and Bluetooth), I keep it in airplane mode. I very much doubt that in this way the sound quality or battery life are affected in anyway whatsoever.

I can completely relate to both the posts.

I was never into DAPs. I own a lg v30+ and could care less about audio quality while commuting. My reasoning was that my desktop setup is where I come to unwind and therefore it should sound the best and get the most attention (funds, listening time, upgrades, etc). Sometime late last year I realised that eventhough I had the right gear, I still wasn't able to listen to music for the only reason that I had to be tethered to where my setup was. Moreover sometimes I would come from work and I would be so tired that the very idea of turning on the amps and dacs and wading through the ridiculous daphile gui was off-putting. I would end up listening to my v30 using my IEMs.

I initially tried putting together setups at three different places but as you can guess, it didn't workout either. Anyway, I realised that a good portable device is what I needed.

DAPs are ofcourse the only sensible option and I have been extensively auditioning devices; looking to finally get mine this year. Some of my general observations:

1. There are differences between the ultra high end, high end , mid tier and beginner DAPs but the difference is not as stark as it is for desktop systems.

2. The gain in performance from high end to the uber costly daps is very slim and in most cases only a matter of tuning.

3. DAPs have also come a long way in terms of technology and after listening to stuff like M17 and Shanling M9, I think portable dac/amps might become redundant if there is ever a price breakthrough in the dap market.

4. (This one is controversial but I'm gonna stick to my observations) I found that android based DAPs (or those with heavy gui based OSs) lacked the SQ when compared to those with relatively simple UIs or low resource implementions. A curious case is that of the Quloos QA361; a 700 odd buck dap with a UI so barebones that it might seem almost unusable in 2022,; yet sounds better than DAPs twice/thrice it's cost.

5. This brings me to streaming: Digital is the way forward. I think streaming is a god send and with the kind of Internet speeds we have these days, it has never been easier to discover and listen to new music. However, I also collect CDs coz when it comes to absolute sound quality, local red book playback (spinning/ripped wav) is still king. I feel that if someone relies on streaming only, getting a 2K or 3K player might not be justified in terms of SQ (atleast from what I heard).

6. I've also had a chance to listen to these mammoth daps like the M30, Quloos qa390, shanling em5, etc.; I wouldn't call these DAPs per say. They aren't as convenient and ofcourse sound way different (mostly superior) to their much smaller competitors. Unless someone is looking only at SQ and portability, these devices might not make much sense.

Anyway looking forward to listen to more devices (especially the N8ii). Sorry for the long post and thank you for your time!

(P.S.: I've ranked the DAPs I've heard till now in the rank your the best daps you've heard thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rank-the-best-sounding-daps-that-you-heard.936707/post-16802756).

 

[brams]

DAPs have also come a long way in terms of technology and after listening to stuff like M17 and Shanling M9, I think portable dac/amps might become redundant if there is ever a price breakthrough in the dap market.

The other side of the coin is that portable dac/amp "dongles" despite their small size have improved a lot recently (Cayin's own RU6 being an example) and as a result I have started to use dongles like my Hidizs S9 Pro with my phone around the house with my full size headphones. I always have my phone with me anyway and since these dongles are so small it's like I'm only carrying a single device (as opposed to the Questyle QPM/phone setup where there is no doubt you are carrying two units).

Using a dongle, I'm able to stream to relatively easy to drive TOTL headphones like my T+A Solitaire P without needing to be chained to a specific listening area. Crazy, but it works. Moreover, many of the newer dongles I have tried perform at a level where I can still appreciate the special qualities of the Sol P or whatever other headphone/iem I use with it.

Just like you have stated, when I'm in this listening mode, ultimate sound quality is not as important as the ability to listen to any track I want, and discover new music on albums which I would never had purchased. If I like the music I will purchase the CD or download the hi res track so I can give it a proper listen on my desktop rig or main system.

In a way there is a convergence occurring between DAPs and dongles. I think that as the performance of each improves the units that have no future are the "transportable" dac/amps that fall between a desktop setup and portable setup. My predictions are:

1. More and more Daps will all offer streaming capabilities. Moreover, if possible, the design will be such that allows streaming be completely turned off (Because of Android background services I don't think its simply a matter of turning off the WiFi and switching to airplane mode) for those who want to focus purely on sound
2. Dongles will try to stay as small as possible while offering more driving power (by incorporating rechargeable batteries) and better dac implementations for those users who do not want to carry both a cell phone and a DAP.
3. Manufacturers will offer both DAPs and dongles with the option to change the default tuning. I have tried enough of these to realize that the tuning that works best with any headphone will vary with factors that are largely beyond the control of the Manufacturer.

It remains to be seen how this will play out, but ultimately the consumer will be the winner.

 

[pkcpga]

I thought there was supposed to be an update and more info released mid February after the New Year holiday?

 

[nuze]

Delayed further because of WM1ZM2 release?