Cayin N8 TOTL DAP: KORG Nutube, Dual AK4497, 4.4mm phone/line out
Jan 23, 2019 at 12:57 AM Post #1,456 of 3,873
Did I offend you ? It seems so.

No, I don’t work for Ibasso, I simply stated out the obvious, so every one knows and have a better idea of what is to buy. I don’t see how I am pushing Ibasso. If for a hobby, anyone allow another to push them into buying stuff, then they are in a wrong hobby.

I also don’t know how I could offend you, and if I did, I am sorry

I hope you don't mind if I chime in, as a friend in this thread.

First of all, and the most important of all, you are entitle to your opinion and you are welcome to share your opinion anywhere in the forum, including in this thread. This is a given, no one is going to challenge it.

However, how many time we need to repeat the same (or very similar) opinion in the same discussion? I think this is the reason that trigger jmills8's response. He don't mean to disagree with you, or falsify your personal experience or preference, its the repeating pattern that put him off, and I think he probably is not the only one that share this "again and again" feeling regarding your passion to DX200. I hope jmills8 is not serious when he question if there is a conflict of interest involved. I truly believe you are nothing more than over-enthusiastic, which is not a bad thing at all.

On the other hand, I have no idea why you think it is so important to convey the DX200 messages to N8 user group (or target group in the wider perspective) persistently, you doesn't seem to see the same necessity to other DAP user groups? Maybe instead of sharing three to four times how good the DX200 is in N8 thread, you should spread your effort to convey the same DX200 message to SPK, WM1Z, LPGT thread as well, that should maxima your efficient and serve your enthusiastic to DX200 better.

Just a suggestion, you are welcome to stayback. However I am more interested to your impression to N8 then how you feel about other's impression or review of N8, shouldn't we? :beerchug:
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/
Jan 23, 2019 at 1:18 AM Post #1,457 of 3,873
I have a problem with the display on my Cayin N8. When I search for an artist or a music album the drop down list slows down and displays duplicate information, the screen bug. I have random display errors. I did a firmware ugrade and i did a factory reset but I have the same problem !!!
Do you have a idea

This is new to me, I haven't encounter anything like this so far. Let's debug the problem to gather, please pardon me for being in-specific as I have no idea what could have caused this at this point.

(1) When you reset the N8 and reinstalled the firmware, this double vision shows up immediately after you power up the DAP? or it only shows up when you access the music file?
(2) Did you store the music file on the TF card or the internal storage?
(3) Can you provide more detail regarding your TF card? brand, capacity, utilization (How many GB has been used)?
(4) Try this out: Empty the internal storage, copy one album that you have been using for a long time (ie. you are absolutely certain that these files are not perfectly OK), remove the TF card, reset the N8, power up again and try to play the album at your internal storage.

Let's see if this will help us to collect the necessary information to rectify the problem.
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/
Jan 23, 2019 at 2:21 AM Post #1,458 of 3,873
Hi Andykong
1) it's only when I scroll any menu music file or System setting or music setting with or without my micro SD in the player.
2)I tried without any music file on the unit and without the SD but it's the same issu
3) My TF card is ScanDisk Ultra 400GB, 360GB used
4) Sorry I did all the things but it's the same issu

Thank you to tried to help me.

I so sorry about this problem, your player have a fantastic sound
 
Jan 23, 2019 at 2:32 AM Post #1,459 of 3,873
OK, this is the deal.

All the buttons and dials in our components inventory are gold-plated already. We do these in large batch to control cost. If I wait for another batch of button and dials, will probably take 6-8 months. For those who understand manufacturing should know why we do this is bigger batch.

After a thorough discussion, we decided to take one of each button/dial and remove part of the gold-plated surface so that the brass material can be displayed again. This is what I received from the production supervisor.



I hope we can drop this allegation from here on, but I guess this won't change your conclusion that N8 is poorly built anyway.

Hello Andy,

First of all, I'm NOT telling the N8 is poorly built and on the contrary, this is one of the strongest built I ever seen. I'm just disappointed by the buttons and dials which should be a lot better if made with a better material and probably a bit shorter (for the dials).

Looking at your pictures, some parts of the buttons seem to be more copper colored. That could indeed be brass as we might see the green circle of oxydation on the volume dial.

However, the center of the volume dial is not appearing as brass but of plastic... For the other button and dial, the photo are not very revealing. The brass become dull and green if you expose it to oxygen. That might be a clue of the used material.

If I insist that's because I really believe my unit is differently built. This is really a question of feeling under the skin of the finger. The brass (or any metal) has a sensation quite different as plastic and the dial are very light and not feeling cold as metal made. Maybe the metal is thick or the gold plated is hiding the metal feeling but I swear that doesn't feel like brass. But if you say that's made of brass, I shall probably believe you...

And the N8 still got the best sound ever heard !

Sorry to bother you and regards.

Dimitri
 
Last edited:
Jan 23, 2019 at 3:45 AM Post #1,460 of 3,873
I hope you don't mind if I chime in, as a friend in this thread.

First of all, and the most important of all, you are entitle to your opinion and you are welcome to share your opinion anywhere in the forum, including in this thread. This is a given, no one is going to challenge it.

However, how many time we need to repeat the same (or very similar) opinion in the same discussion? I think this is the reason that trigger jmills8's response. He don't mean to disagree with you, or falsify your personal experience or preference, its the repeating pattern that put him off, and I think he probably is not the only one that share this "again and again" feeling regarding your passion to DX200. I hope jmills8 is not serious when he question if there is a conflict of interest involved. I truly believe you are nothing more than over-enthusiastic, which is not a bad thing at all.

On the other hand, I have no idea why you think it is so important to convey the DX200 messages to N8 user group (or target group in the wider perspective) persistently, you doesn't seem to see the same necessity to other DAP user groups? Maybe instead of sharing three to four times how good the DX200 is in N8 thread, you should spread your effort to convey the same DX200 message to SPK, WM1Z, LPGT thread as well, that should maxima your efficient and serve your enthusiastic to DX200 better.

Just a suggestion, you are welcome to stayback. However I am more interested to your impression to N8 then how you feel about other's impression or review of N8, shouldn't we? :beerchug:

Hello Andy, I am glad that you are answering

According to economy 101, competitions make the market stronger. Ofcourse, I am trailing thread of different DAPs, which I owned, and which I don’t, simply because they are viewed as competitions to other products. The N8 is not the only one that I am trailing, and my Audio hobby doesn’t stop by Dx200*. I am still trailing because your N8 is wonderful of many different aspects. However, it will all come down to Sound performances, correct ?

I gathered so many useful informations, and they satisfy my curiosity.

1/ FPGA being used for Digital processing instead of conventional Xmos. Ofcourse, I did ask you before about this FPGA, and you mentioned about it too. There are Pros and Cons in using it. Why not AK4137 ?

2/ I2S upto 368Khz, yes, this is very impressive. The fact that the connectors are mini connector, and you including the cables, that is excellent news. Though, I wonder about clocks specifications.

3/ You are using many components inside including ECHU, and the like, which are expensive, and high quality

4/ I like the idea of heat dissipation toward the chassis by strips, PGS

5/ N8 is the first to utilize a bold move of KORG tubes ! I appreciate it. Once again, competitions are good ! Hence Ibasso is going to release the next Korg tube module soon !

I still seek for more answers, and hope you don’t mind

1/ Printed Flexible circuit * I need more informations, is it a typical Paste construction or is it stripes construction ? Where exactly is it being used ? I am only curious because as a Cables, it affects sound quality also

2/ Clock oscilliators, what are being used ? I don’t mind keeping the brands secrets, I want some parameters such as Floor noises, and PPM, at the least.

3/ You mentioned the FPGA being the core processor for DSP handling to make sure that there is no Oversampling, and AK4497EQ is used for Conversions only ? If so, This is all in the software control ? FPGA is very flexible, but it gotta be implemented in specific ways to enable different features. So it is worth it to ask, Is it capable of Upsampling, or Live processing of 44.1 into DSD256 ? *the highest N8 can process*

4/ What Precision tolerances of resistors are being used ?

Finally, SP1K, WM1Z, N8, LPGT are in the same competition end of the market, according to the pricing. Now, the WM1Z was priced worth it, because of the Special chassis of Pure OFC copper block and Micro-Porous Gold plating, using Sony S-Master patented architectures, and many Film-Capacitors, F-resistors, which are all high quality, expensive components, which makes it unique one of a kind on the market.

Before owning Dx200, I did participate in it own thread, and after carefully observations, I decided to grab it and my WM1Z was sold afterward. I am entitled to my own opinion, just like many others, and people who agreed or share my opinions are the same. So IMO, and experiences, the Dx200 by Sound quality alone, is competitive toward these expensive products very well, and hence I am trailing them all. Ofcourse DX200 is not perfect, it weakness is the timbres, and it hisses with sensitive in ears. However, using full-size headphones and lineout into desktop, the performances are wonderful.

Ibasso, tried it (copper-gold chassis), and ended up with only 25 Specially made unit of Copper-Goldplated Dx200, but the pricing had to be kept around $3,000. It was all because of the chassis.

After all, as a strong products, and being very competitive. I appreciate Cayin for making the N8. As a customer, I am grateful to see competitions, the more, the merrier

However I am more interested to your impression to N8 then how you feel about other's impression or review of N8, shouldn't we? :beerchug:

This is very kind of you, but unfortunately, my money don’t grow like grass, so I am a bit sensible. For now, @twister6 and @PinkyPowers reviews are inline, and I can not appreciate enough :).
 
Last edited:
Jan 23, 2019 at 4:33 AM Post #1,461 of 3,873
Last edited:
Jan 23, 2019 at 6:51 AM Post #1,462 of 3,873
I bought and owned a DX200 twice (a the very beginning when it cames out then later to try new amp modules).

This is a great DAP but, IMO, it's not reaching, at the same time, the bass impact and the rich and lively mids and trebles of the Cayin N8. Sure, it costs a 3rd of its price and it's a lighter and less bulky product with Android OS but when we are only talking about the sound, the DX200 is not a the same level of performance. In audio, the raw performance is very often overriding the ratio quality/cost because if not, who should buy some flagship IEMs to $ 3,000 when you have some IEMs just slightly tiny less performant to $ 1,000 ?
 
Jan 23, 2019 at 6:57 AM Post #1,463 of 3,873
I bought and owned a DX200 twice (a the very beginning when it cames out then later to try new amp modules).

This is a great DAP but, IMO, it's not reaching, at the same time, the bass impact and the rich and lively mids and trebles of the Cayin N8. Sure, it costs a 3rd of its price and it's a lighter and less bulky product with Android OS but when we are only talking about the sound, the DX200 is not a the same level of performance. In audio, the raw performance is very often overriding the ratio quality/cost because if not, who should buy some flagship IEMs to $ 3,000 when you have some IEMs just slightly tiny less performant to $ 1,000 ?

Assuming you are using Amp1 stock ? Totally agreed. The Dx200 is only so so with stock amp module, and that amp module has never impressed me. Ofcourse, with an ocean of fishes, we can all pick the one we love :). In the end of the day, I was happy enough to sell my WM1Z and moved onto DX200Titanium

I also agree who would want to buy a $3k item when a $1k item is only a slight bit setback ?

I have no doubt about N8 with beautiful timbres as it has been very consistent from the first people whom reviews are reputable
 
Last edited:
Jan 23, 2019 at 7:01 AM Post #1,464 of 3,873
the n8 is a terrific dap for sure, but someone saying that the 1Z is cold sounding makes me think that or I am with earing problems or is the reviewer, or the n8 is damn hot...

a true testament to why when making a purchase of this significance (personal gear) you should only trust your own ears as to what is pleasing to you. just because a reviewer has an opinion doesn't make it gospel. my ears have over 200 live shows on them. would you trust me to give you a listening impression regarding a 3 grand + purchase?

I would hope not.
 
Jan 23, 2019 at 7:04 AM Post #1,465 of 3,873
Assuming you are using Amp1 stock ? Totally agreed. The Dx200 is only so so with stock amp module, and that amp module has never impressed me. Ofcourse, with an ocean of fishes, we can all pick the one we love :). In the end of the day, I was happy enough to sell my WM1Z and moved onto DX200Titanium

I also agree who would want to buy a $3k item when a $1k item is only a slight bit setback ?

You haven't correctly read or understood my reply.

I tested the DX200 with amp 1 to 4 and the N8 just sounds better, fullier and more organic.

And on the question of the price, the raw performance may convince people to pay more even if the increase of the price is a lot higher than the increase of the quality.

If not, 64audio would probably disappear.
 
Last edited:
Jan 23, 2019 at 7:10 AM Post #1,466 of 3,873
There are people that sold the 1z and to have the dx200ti, there are people who had the dx200ti and sold it and stayed with 1Z, other sold the dx200ti and bought the sp1000cu/ss I could stay here all day... At this prices is our personal taste that rules, is no one that is bad or good all of them are top machines
 
Jan 23, 2019 at 7:12 AM Post #1,467 of 3,873
You haven't correctly read or understood my reply.

I tested the DX200 with amp 1 to 4 and the N8 just sounds better, fullier and more organic.

And on the question on the price, the raw performance may convince people to may more even if the increasing of the price is a lot higher than an increasing of the quality.
There are people that sold the 1z and to have the dx200ti, there are people who had the dx200ti and sold it and stayed with 1Z, other sold the dx200ti and bought the sp1000cu/ss I could stay here all day... At this prices is our personal taste that rules, is no one that is bad or good all of them are top machines

Yes, I totally agree.

I wish people would stop the mentality that “it is expensive because it sound good” or “it is expensive, it better sound good” and rather look at performances as a reference points. My points of references come from my Stax system, and really, not everyone love Stax :)
 
Last edited:
Jan 23, 2019 at 10:03 AM Post #1,469 of 3,873
Also @Andykong , can you please confirm if I2S on the N8 is software configurable ? If it is hardware only, do you have a Pin-out ? So we may be able to make a compatible cables to other desktop DAC system ?

From this Working Blocks. It seems that with a firmware upgrade, your implemented FPGA is capable of Upsampling from PCM 16/44.1 or higher upto 384Khz using I2S out ? I know Chord is doing similar with WTA filter on their own and does upto 768KHz. However they don’t use I2S

My question happened because Cayin N8 is the first on the market to offer 384Khz from I2S. From my desktop experiences, I2S is the better connection

69023517-2416-4523-B3E3-DEF19B44A59A.jpeg
 
Jan 24, 2019 at 1:56 AM Post #1,470 of 3,873
This is new to me, I haven't encounter anything like this so far. Let's debug the problem to gather, please pardon me for being in-specific as I have no idea what could have caused this at this point.

(1) When you reset the N8 and reinstalled the firmware, this double vision shows up immediately after you power up the DAP? or it only shows up when you access the music file?
(2) Did you store the music file on the TF card or the internal storage?
(3) Can you provide more detail regarding your TF card? brand, capacity, utilization (How many GB has been used)?
(4) Try this out: Empty the internal storage, copy one album that you have been using for a long time (ie. you are absolutely certain that these files are not perfectly OK), remove the TF card, reset the N8, power up again and try to play the album at your internal storage.

Let's see if this will help us to collect the necessary information to rectify the problem.

Thank you for the prompt response, this looks like a hardware failure, I have submit a instance report to our Service Engineer, will come back to you through PM when I received the feedback form them. :beerchug:
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top