[denis1976]

Hi All Head-Fiers and Andy, met you at Meze booth Friday when testing the RAI, wonder how the Empryean sound on N8 : D
Would like to join impression on this one of a kind DAP, N8 for my first post on head-fi
Absolutely agree with seanwee opinion, soundstage is comparable with their desktop setup with tube amp HA-1A mkII, sadly got distorted bass from HA-300, may be too powerful for old driver lol.
All tested with a AKG K120 (not DYN) vintage 600-ohm headphone from tube SE, at first turned high-gain, switch to high-impedance, max vol, got a full bodied and details sound out of N8
then a nice staff guy saw me turning vol to max, was a bit shocked, then helped to switch to high-power mode. Loudness up to a test level and soundstage got even widen up.
tested with symphony track, imaging and details are impressive, love the bit warmth but layered sound signature
As to say the power from tube SE is enormous, since tested same HP on SPK ... the sound just make you cry, got ok loudness when turn vol to 150 max, but you feel like the SPK is screaming for its best, but lack of body and texture, for me it's just a disaster. Should have tested the same on WM1Z ....
I understand it's not the way they supposed to handle, but well it's more fun than expected. I believe the test really tells number is just number on paper.

Not sure if others did the same crazy combination on those DAP, please share the impression too

you tested the spk in balanced? I never had that volume bug....

 

[Saltyfatboy]

you tested the spk in balanced? I never had that volume bug....

Sadly only got 3.5 SE on HP, so yes, for the SPK test is on SE only. I understand it can be somewhat unfair, since not on SPK full power balanced output ...
[edit] but rather to point the different approach on volume setting between N8 and SPK .. like audible max and setting max ...

Have you tried hooking high-ohm HP to SPK balanced out ? please share how it goes, how vol setting need to push the HE400I, not high-ohm but quite low on sensitivity, still need some power I think ..

 

[denis1976]

My he400i are low sensitive youre correct , they are not easy to drive,and they are open, the volume is between 90 to 110 in balanced

 

[Saltyfatboy]

My he400i are low sensitive youre correct , they are not easy to drive,and they are open, the volume is between 90 to 110 in balanced

Thanks for info, so it's similar to Final E5000 on SPK balanced, I have E5000 too with balanced copper cable, it's lovely, nice balance on details and dynamics.

Had quick test on WM1Z with the 600-ohm K120, again turn on high gain and max vol to reach normal loudness, still not a test level.
Soundstage is quite ok, but sound lack a bit body and bass punch, feel mids not well layered, more on dark signature

Tube SE output on N8 just remarkable, great work Cayin !! Thanks for building this unique candidate to sea of DAPs

 

[seanwee]

Had quick test on WM1Z with the 600-ohm K120, again turn on high gain and max vol to reach normal loudness, still not a test level.
Soundstage is quite ok, but sound lack a bit body and bass punch, feel mids not well layered, more on dark signature

3.5mm or 4.4mm balanced?

 

[Saltyfatboy]

3.5mm or 4.4mm balanced?

Sorry for missing, again, was on WM1Z 3.5 SE ... gotta mod it to balanced, obvious it's power hungry cans ..

 

[seanwee]

Sorry for missing, again, was on WM1Z 3.5 SE ... gotta mod it to balanced, obvious it's power hungry cans ..

Ah ok, I thought so based on your impressions.

My earlier comparisons with the N8 was based on the WM1Z's 4.4mm balanced output. The SE output you tried is cleaner and more neutral compared to the 4.4mm balanced output.

 

[Saltyfatboy]

Ah ok, I thought so based on your impressions.

My earlier comparisons with the N8 was based on the WM1Z's 4.4mm balanced output. The SE output you tried is cleaner and more neutral compared to the 4.4mm balanced output.

on WM1Z SE output, not direct comparison but may be not muddy as your feeling on 4.4, but still lack some clarity on mid-highs ..
also wonder which IEM/HP did you use, and how to compare SE/bal out ? using an adapter on SE to bal cable ?

 

[seanwee]

on WM1Z SE output, not direct comparison but may be not muddy as your feeling on 4.4, but still lack some clarity on mid-highs ..
also wonder which IEM/HP did you use, and how to compare SE/bal out ? using an adapter on SE to bal cable ?

I used a 4.4 to 3.5mm adapter. One of the things I really like about the 4.4mm TRRRS jack is that it can be converted to 3.5mm unlike conventional 2.5mm balanced jacks that lack a ground.

I was used my echobox finders and sundara.

 

[Saltyfatboy]

I used a 4.4 to 3.5mm adapter. One of the things I really like about the 4.4mm TRRRS jack is that it can be converted to 3.5mm unlike conventional 2.5mm balanced jacks that lack a ground.

I was used my echobox finders and sundara.

wow, I thought only SE can adapt to bal plug but not the other way ... since both -ive end of op-amp will be joint ?
seems we both like to push hard on those DAPs, 91% Hdb on N5II , haha ~ also a waive to N5II user : D

[O.T.] the N5IIS vol knob just much nicer

 

[seanwee]

wow, I thought only SE can adapt to bal plug but not the other way ... since both -ive end of op-amp will be joint ?
seems we both like to push hard on those DAPs, 91% Hdb on N5II , haha ~ also a waive to N5II user : D

[O.T.] the N5IIS vol knob just much nicer

Yes that is true. But the 4.4mm jack has both negative contacts and a ground which allows convertion to both SE or balanced output.

In case anyone is wondering, the balanced output of the WM1Z is weak. The WM1Z and N5ii were volume matched in the above picture and the N5ii outputs just 150mw into 32ohms. I'd guess it does 200mw into 32ohms, tops. A far cry from the N8's output power.

 

[denis1976]

The 1Z balanced is weak only on paper, the sound is powerfull, at least my was with the previous firmware(not the 2.0)

 

[Andykong]

Hi All Head-Fiers and Andy, met you at Meze booth Friday when testing the RAI, wonder how the Empryean sound on N8 : D
Would like to join impression on this one of a kind DAP, N8 for my first post on head-fi
Absolutely agree with seanwee opinion, soundstage is comparable with their desktop setup with tube amp HA-1A mkII, sadly got distorted bass from HA-300, may be too powerful for old driver lol.
All tested with a AKG K120 (not DYN) vintage 600-ohm headphone from tube SE, at first turned high-gain, switch to high-impedance, max vol, got a full bodied and details sound out of N8
then a nice staff guy saw me turning vol to max, was a bit shocked, then helped to switch to high-power mode. Loudness up to a test level and soundstage got even widen up.
tested with symphony track, imaging and details are impressive, love the bit warmth but layered sound signature
As to say the power from tube SE is enormous, since tested same HP on SPK ... the sound just make you cry, got ok loudness when turn vol to 150 max, but you feel like the SPK is screaming for its best, but lack of body and texture, for me it's just a disaster. Should have tested the same on WM1Z ....
I understand it's not the way they supposed to handle, but well it's more fun than expected. I believe the test really tells number is just number on paper.

Not sure if others did the same crazy combination on those DAP, please share the impression too

I didn't recall anyone wearing K120 at Meze booth, if I do, I definitely will check out run after you trying to check out your headphone.

Have you taken any photo of N8 in action with K120? That should be very interesting. The K120 is the first headphone product from AKG and dated all the way back to 1949 and was in production for around 20 years. I haven't heard this headphone before, only read about it here and there. When you said non-DYN version, so you refer to the very first metal cylinder based? Since a lot of reader are not familiar with this headphone, maybe you can tell us a bit more so that we can understand the test you have described here. I read from other site that the sensitivity is around 88dB, so it is a high impedance low sensitivity headphone, a lot more demanding then my good old 600ohm HD540G and HD250.

I don't have the 600 ohms figures with me, but when we compare the power rating of N8 at 300 ohms, High Impedance mode delivers 50mW per channel to 3.5mm (tube and SS) and 200mW per channel to 4.4mm, that is 400% more power on paper, so the balanced headphone output from N8 probably will do a better job. But since we are dealing with K120, we definitely should keep it as-is. TBH, I am kind of happy that N8 can survive this extraordinary test. This is way beyond the idea of "difficult load" that we have in mind for N8, especially for 3.5mm single-ended output is concerned.

I need to add a disclaimer after I feel so excited with this impression:

High Impedance low sensitivity headphones are designed for desktop/professional usage, N8 is a portable audio device and is not designed for this purpose, Cayin cannot ensure or warrant similar usage and you use it at your won risk.



Now we are safe and we can continue to discuss the impression.

 

[Mouseman]

I used a 4.4 to 3.5mm adapter. One of the things I really like about the 4.4mm TRRRS jack is that it can be converted to 3.5mm unlike conventional 2.5mm balanced jacks that lack a ground.

I was used my echobox finders and sundara.

You can get an adapter for a 2.5 balanced cable to convert to a 3.5. I have one that is a solid plug, and a Fiio one that is two parts connected by a braided wire. I don't have to switch any of my balanced cables back to use them SE.

 

[seanwee]

You can get an adapter for a 2.5 balanced cable to convert to a 3.5. I have one that is a solid plug, and a Fiio one that is two parts connected by a braided wire. I don't have to switch any of my balanced cables back to use them SE.

Maybe I mixed up the terms.

I was talking about the 4.4mm outputs being able to be converted to 2.5mm and 3.5mm outputs.

You can't convert a 2.5mm output into a 3.5mm output though.