Cayin N6ii, Unlimited Possibilities: a fully modularized smart DAP

[buonassi]

The sampling rate of the current track shows up on the notification bar and in Tidal the "Master" quality tracks show 192KHz SR indeed.

but there's no knowing the depth (word length). IE, I have found that in ibasso DAPs which use similar tech to bypass SRC, that the sample rate is indeed preserved, but 24 bit stream is truncated to 16 bit when it's sent to the DAC to decode. You can look at the ALSA (linux sound driver) state using lurker's firmware to confirm this (again, only on ibasso). This happens with amazon music, and qobuz at least.

I am not saying this is the case for hiby and cayin, only bringing it to your attention to see if you notice any degradation when using 3rd party apps. Someone who is experienced enough with Android can probably confirm this. I however, am not!

DTA is great, but if it is 'bit stripping' the stream, then you can expect quantization noise and less quality than even standard 16 bit CD quality (if playing a hires file). Why? Because 24 bit truncated to 16 bit without dither is technically inferior to a properly converted (from studio master) 16 bit dithered file.

 

[NYanakiev]

Yup, I know that. I use Roon on two systems on my network, both through Oppo BDP. What I would really like to figure out is how to get Roon to broadcast through my wi-fi the same feed as the wired network to a portable device in my pocket. I can set up several devices with roon remote, and play stuff from the database but haven't found a way to show the portable device as an audio zone on the Roon core computer so it can be grouped with the two Oppo devices.

In other words, a dap as a Roon endpoint.

USB Audio Player Pro works great with servers as it doesn’t degrade the audio quality.

I tried pretty much everything on the Google Play Store and nothing else works like USBPP.

Sadly, this doesn’t go for Roon.

 

[kmmbd]

I am not saying this is the case for hiby and cayin, only bringing it to your attention to see if you notice any degradation when using 3rd party apps. Someone who is experienced enough with Android can probably confirm this. I however, am not!

DTA is great, but if it is 'bit stripping' the stream, then you can expect quantization noise and less quality than even standard 16 bit CD quality (if playing a hires file). Why? Because 24 bit truncated to 16 bit without dither is technically inferior to a properly converted (from studio master) 16 bit dithered file.

Very interesting point. What I noticed between the Tidal output and the output from the "local" music played on stock Cayin player is the output volume/SPL. The local music player plays music noticeably loudly (at the same volume steps) than the Tidal/YT Music version. I don't quite know why they'd go through reducing the bit-depth though since if you are already bypassing SRC, keeping the same bit-depth shouldn't be too big a deal as you are bypassing the DSP of the SoC anyway (and even then SD425's Hexagon V5 DSP "technically" should support 32 bit FP operations). Unless they really want to save on battery life or reduce buffer occupancy - it's seems like an odd move and I hope Cayin just throws the bit-perfect output.

P.S. I believe the UAPP music player has a bit-perfect mode where you can sort of force bit-perfect playback. The app is a bit expensive but might come in handy if you want to check things out.

 

[buonassi]

P.S. I believe the UAPP music player has a bit-perfect mode where you can sort of force bit-perfect playback. The app is a bit expensive but might come in handy if you want to check things out.

UAPP does qobuz and tidal in bit perfect, no bit truncation, but you have to stream - you can't download the files for offline. Sadly, offline can only be done in the tidal/qobuz android app and that's where the truncation happens. At least on the DX150 and 160.

for tidal at least, I always found UAPP streaming to sound superior to the tidal app (even on a DTA device).

I finally gave up and just started buying albums I really like and building my own library (so I'm no longer hardware constrained)

 

[Andykong]

can I ask @Andykong why the Chinese version can not have the international rom installed, knowing its the same hardware, is there anything you can do to help with this ?

As I want to use uapp player, and I could not find a way to install it without the playstore

A quick answer is, if you were to buy a mobile phone from China that doesn't come with Google Service, you cannot upgrade your firmware into International version (with Google Service) even when they are exactly the same hardware. This is a limitation imposed by Android system to maintain maximum compatibility (i.e. all APP will remain fully functional after upgrade).

We used to offer that with our previous Android DAP, but those were designed as fully customised special-purpose closed system: you boot into the Cayin Music Player and cannot have access to Android Desktop. The N6ii adopts a different open system approach where you boot into Android desktop directly. Open system approach is a lot closer to the original Android environment, this will enhance compatibility with third party applications, something that we have received numerous complaint in our previous models, but on the other hand, will suffer more constraint (similar to mobile phone operation) when compare to the fully customised route.

 

[Andykong]

Does anyone use the Line Out feature on the N6ii to feed a dedicated headphone amp to drive higher impedance headphones more easily? I've got an Arcam rHead that hasn't been used for a while and I used to use it with my Amiron Home headphones to a very pleasing effect. I know there isn't a Line Out on the E01 module, but I believe there is on the A01 module.

As I don't have my N6ii yet, I was curious as to the sound quality from the Line Out.

We insist and proud of our Line Out feature. The 3.5mm line out of A01 and T01 module has a dedicated line amplifier op-amp to drive the line out option, the output is very clean and stable upto 10kohm. We call this desktop grade line out because they can work with desktop amplifier satisfactory.

The 4.4mm line out of A01 and T01 are shared with balanced headphone output and is rated at 600ohm only. Audiophile users sometimes refer these as "pseudo-line out" because the signal go through an current amplification circuit. Right now only N8 has "real" balanced line out that by-pass headphone amplification completely.

 

[Andykong]

I now have everything in place to enjoy my N6ii as a portable system and as a bedside system - IEMs, over-ears, headphone amp, microSD card, all interconnents, fast-chargers, etc, etc. Unfortunately, I don't have my N6ii yet! Awaiting stock from the seller, which is apparently on the way from Cayin. The wait is agonising.

I had a big smile when I read this, that's definitely anticipate with enthusiasm
Hope you receive your N6ii by now, and most important, hope you enjoy your N6ii.

 

[Andykong]

That is of course the case, but I am quite sure that software implementation is also culprit. Even in smartphones better low level programming can yield massive gains in battery life.

I k ow that these machines use high end DACs and amps but they require mains in order to last a day. That is very like early MD players.

Well, if someone is patient enough, we can evaluate your assumption by measuring the battery duration of line out and coaxial output of A01. The coaxial output will bypass the DAC and analogue audio system completely (but maintain control , so this will measure the battery efficient of N6ii software implementation. The line output will go through AK4497, LPF and line amplifier, the output is actually powerful enough to drive a lot of earphones already (but without volume control, so not recommended) and is more heavy duty then some of the lower powered DAPs.

I don't have the related battery duration numbers, but I am quite confident that both setting will go beyond 20 hours, and the coaxial output probably will approach 30 hours.

 

[Andykong]

Yes unfortunately this is how the volume wheel works. N6II is a high end almost TOTL DAP and should be free of issue such as this. I really wonder if this could be fixed via FW update or it’s a bad HW implementation. Cayin should at least give us a statement about it...

It's using a rotary encoder to change the volume inside a chip. Rotary encoders, to put it simply, aren't pleasant to use as volume controls, both feel-wise and performance-wise.

Thank you for clarify this for us. The volume control of N6ii is indeed a Rotary encoder, and the encoding part of N6ii is more complicated than other players or even desktop audio equipment. For example, A01 use built-in digital volume of the AK4497 but T01 uses digitally controlled analogue volume chip, so each Audio Motherboard will have it own volume control and the N6ii rotary encoder need to maintain a much wider compatibility then other similar device. In general, a bigger control wheel will increase the accuracy of the rotary encoder, but we try to make it as compact as possible, especially when some users express their reservation on big volume dial design like our N8.

For regular use, the N6ii volume dial will turn up and down volume quickly (effectively) as it should be, and if you want to do fine adjustment on volume setting, the on-screen volume interface will offer convenient adjustment per click.

 

[Taz777]

We insist and proud of our Line Out feature. The 3.5mm line out of A01 and T01 module has a dedicated line amplifier op-amp to drive the line out option, the output is very clean and stable upto 10kohm. We call this desktop grade line out because they can work with desktop amplifier satisfactory.

The 4.4mm line out of A01 and T01 are shared with balanced headphone output and is rated at 600ohm only. Audiophile users sometimes refer these as "pseudo-line out" because the signal go through an current amplification circuit. Right now only N8 has "real" balanced line out that by-pass headphone amplification completely.

Okay, thanks for this information. So in summary: to get the highest sound quality from the Line Out of A01 or T01, we should use the unbalanced 3.5mm line output.

 

[Andykong]

lol ok. that's one shop. doesnt mean they'll ALL follow that trend hahahaha i'd believe you if it was from cayin, not just ONE ONLINE STORE.

I can confirm that Cayin offered N6ii(A01), N6ii(T0) and N6iiI(E01) separately. When we launch a new Audio Motherboard, we only sell it as standalone items initially, because production is limited and we want to maxima the flexibility of our sales network. Once the production become stable, we'll roll out the new Audio Motherboard bundle immediately.

However, not all dealers will import every N6ii bundled models. We understand this might introduce pressure to their inventory management. If you can wait, you can probably work this out with your dealer, place an order to a specific bundle and wait for the next shipment (which can take a month of more unfortunately).

 

[Andykong]

I had run it at least 40/50 by the time I had posted my original comments. And then after that I had just left it for maybe 6 days running, half of it running in A/B mode the other half running in A mode. Since I didn't know if the subjective 'burn in' should be done to each mode, or if you could just be in one mode and both would 'burn in'. Again I figured, what could it harm. So I ran it for awhile in both modes. Total time I couldn't tell you. I just know it was close to a week I just let it run.

Part of the E01 audio circuit are discrete components, these analogue components normally need longer run-in than other portable devices.

 

[Andykong]

@Andykong

By the way- really happy with how the N6ii performs as a Roon Remote!

I was wondering if there is a way for Cayin to come up with a way to bypass Android’s audio quality restrictions at a system-wide level?

The DTA can only apply to applications installed in your N6ii. It cannot bypass Android’s audio quality restrictions at a system-wide level.

 

[Andykong]

I like that Roon can work on the N6ii, but since I have my whole library (860 GB) on the dap already there is only the tidal access that is an advantage. I guess as the library grows beyond the 1TB card then...

I have to admit, ROON has a much better library management function than our Cayin Music Player, so when the number of entries increase (not exactly by storage capacity), the advantage of ROON kicks in.

 

[Andykong]

i have the same card , works flawless in exfat

Yes, that's why we can't replicate the problem repeatedly and develop a solution to enhance the situation, it is pretty randomized in our observation.