[Nostoi]

Yes, I think you are correct about the Pre out only on the A02. The more I read about it the more I think this module came out to match up with the C9 specifically....or at least in large part. Good luck with the WA8 and it will be interesting to hear your full comparison with it and your C9 out of the N6ii/A02.

Yup, the pre out seems to come in especially beneficial here (because E02 LO doesn't do much on the WA8 and even same for A02 LO - something special seems to be taking place on the A02 on pre-out, however).

Will give full impressions on all this soon!

 

[Nostoi]

And....impressions here of WA8 and C9 here. In short: buy both.

 

[dadracer2]

Good work, great review.

 

[ssriram2791]

And....impressions here of WA8 and C9 here. In short: buy both.

Thanks for the excellent review !

Few questions and observations (if some one has C9, and your recommendation to them is to buy both)

1. Is the battery replaceable manually like Cayin C9 on Woo audio WA8 ? I can perpetually run C9 for days - by just having multiple sets of batteries and battery modules. C9 has 4 batteries that provide clean power supply and voltage for amplification (similar to DX-Max series). If I am correct, WA8 does not use 18650 batteries like C9 and used Li-Ion or Li-Po batteries similar to something like Romi BX2+ and I like to reference one of our knowledgeable headfier @Whitigir post on this.

The reasons why I did not invest into BX2 + Even-though it was cheaper

1/ It does a lot of LDO conversion to raise and boost the voltage rails from 3.7V into higher . The C9 runs straight from 8.8V rails directly (Dual)

2/ BX2 + doesn’t have dual Korg, Pre in, Class A/AB

3/ BX2 have no removable 18650

Hence I said the C9 is a very sophisticated high end Amplifier. Yes, the other specifications the BX2 + is very competitive. But Power supply and the battery supplied voltage is the heart of every Battery devices. The less conversions is the better.

Unfortunately, I don’t have raining $ into the pocket, So I don’t think I am going to invest into BX2 just for the sake of comparison. For this purposes, I will take @twister6 impressions as is

2. What is the single ended (3.5 mm) battery life looking like (do you get 4 hours as they state in the manual) vs C9 (8 hours - Tube and Class A single ended) ?

3. Power ratings - Cayin C9 seems to be definitely a more powerful amplifier for IEMs (take 32 ohms rating as reference) than WA8 (700 mW vs 250 mW). There are proponents who are going to say - more power equals more volume (I dont care how loud it gets). Even at same volume, Cayin's amplifiers are expected to perform (dynamics and staging) better than WA8. Also Woo audio doesn't explicitly state if it is total power for both channels or each channel. If it is for both channels, then that figure drops down to 125 mW per channel is which is quite mediocre for $2000 device. Even my Oriolus BA300S provides 350 mW per channel.

4. At headphone level, C9 is outperforming WA8 seriously in terms of power if you decide to go balanced. Single ended numbers look the same though (in fact WA8 would outperform C9, if the stated numbers are per channel - 120 mW vs 80 mW at 300 ohms).

5. I do want to commend WA8 for the tube rolling option (kudos and cheers). It is just that it becomes endless search for better sound for more and more tube purchases (they seem to getting expensive nowadays) - which has to be accounted for as well to overall price of the device.

Just to be clear, I am not disputing the sound quality of the device, but I see that something at costs $2000 should be alteast comparable to C9 in terms of specs.

 

[dadracer2]

Thanks for the excellent review !

Few questions and observations (if some one has C9, and your recommendation to them is to buy both)

1. Is the battery replaceable manually like Cayin C9 on Woo audio WA8 ? I can perpetually run C9 for days - by just having multiple sets of batteries and battery modules. C9 has 4 batteries that provide clean power supply and voltage for amplification (similar to DX-Max series). If I am correct, WA8 does not use 18650 batteries like C9 and used Li-Ion or Li-Po batteries similar to something like Romi BX2+ and I like to reference one of our knowledgeable headfier @Whitigir post on this.




2. What is the single ended (3.5 mm) battery life looking like (do you get 4 hours as they state in the manual) vs C9 (8 hours - Tube and Class A single ended) ?

3. Power ratings - Cayin C9 seems to be definitely a more powerful amplifier for IEMs (take 32 ohms rating as reference) than WA8 (700 mW vs 250 mW). There are proponents who are going to say - more power equals more volume (I dont care how loud it gets). Even at same volume, Cayin's amplifiers are expected to perform (dynamics and staging) better than WA8. Also Woo audio doesn't explicitly state if it is total power for both channels or each channel. If it is for both channels, then that figure drops down to 125 mW per channel is which is quite mediocre for $2000 device. Even my Oriolus BA300S provides 350 mW per channel.

4. At headphone level, C9 is outperforming WA8 seriously in terms of power if you decide to go balanced. Single ended numbers look the same though (in fact WA8 would outperform C9, if the stated numbers are per channel - 120 mW vs 80 mW at 300 ohms).

5. I do want to commend WA8 for the tube rolling option (kudos and cheers). It is just that it becomes endless search for better sound for more and more tube purchases (they seem to getting expensive nowadays) - which has to be accounted for as well to overall price of the device.

Just to be clear, I am not disputing the sound quality of the device, but I see that something at costs $2000 should be alteast comparable to C9 in terms of specs.

It's not all about the specs, especially where SET amps are concerned though. You are correct about the power output and that may be an issue for some headphones, but doesn't seem to be problematic for many. The Cayin C9 is a wonderful amp, but I haven't heard the WA8 so I don't know if it also wonderful, but I'm intrigued enough if given the chance I'd certainly want to compare them.

 

[Nostoi]

Thanks for the excellent review !

Few questions and observations (if some one has C9, and your recommendation to them is to buy both)

1. Is the battery replaceable manually like Cayin C9 on Woo audio WA8 ? I can perpetually run C9 for days - by just having multiple sets of batteries and battery modules. C9 has 4 batteries that provide clean power supply and voltage for amplification (similar to DX-Max series). If I am correct, WA8 does not use 18650 batteries like C9 and used Li-Ion or Li-Po batteries similar to something like Romi BX2+ and I like to reference one of our knowledgeable headfier @Whitigir post on this.




2. What is the single ended (3.5 mm) battery life looking like (do you get 4 hours as they state in the manual) vs C9 (8 hours - Tube and Class A single ended) ?

3. Power ratings - Cayin C9 seems to be definitely a more powerful amplifier for IEMs (take 32 ohms rating as reference) than WA8 (700 mW vs 250 mW). There are proponents who are going to say - more power equals more volume (I dont care how loud it gets). Even at same volume, Cayin's amplifiers are expected to perform (dynamics and staging) better than WA8. Also Woo audio doesn't explicitly state if it is total power for both channels or each channel. If it is for both channels, then that figure drops down to 125 mW per channel is which is quite mediocre for $2000 device. Even my Oriolus BA300S provides 350 mW per channel.

4. At headphone level, C9 is outperforming WA8 seriously in terms of power if you decide to go balanced. Single ended numbers look the same though (in fact WA8 would outperform C9, if the stated numbers are per channel - 120 mW vs 80 mW at 300 ohms).

5. I do want to commend WA8 for the tube rolling option (kudos and cheers). It is just that it becomes endless search for better sound for more and more tube purchases (they seem to getting expensive nowadays) - which has to be accounted for as well to overall price of the device.

Just to be clear, I am not disputing the sound quality of the device, but I see that something at costs $2000 should be alteast comparable to C9 in terms of specs.

Hi, glad it was helpful.

Just as a prefatory comment on your remarks: clearly the C9 "out-specs" the WA8 on a number of levels. But the motivation of my review/comparison was not to assess which is ahead in this respect, but rather to assess whether they're a mutually edifying pair of amps to own (which I think they are). I've had the C9 since it was launched and continue to love it, and can't ever see myself selling it. But the one thing the WA8 that is different is actually offer a tube sound. The C9 is an incredibly resolving amp, but if you're looking for a warm tube sound, it's the wrong amp. This is why I think it's nice to have both amps; they offer totally different tonalities and timbres.

On your questions:

- The battery on the WA8 is not user replaceable in the way the C9 is. Probably it can be replaced in the way a Mojo battery can; no doubt @HiFiGuy528 might provide some clarity here.

- I'll do a sustained test on battery life today. Running now in USB DAC mode and will repeat test in LO mode.

- You'd have to test yourself for dynamics and staging. As I say, C9 has better micro-detail, better imaging, and separation; WA8 has more energetic dynamics with a larger stage.

- Yes, C9 is obviously more powerful. But as I say, numbers aren't everything. I recently had the FiiO M17, which is an excellent DAP. On paper, it's more powerful than the C9; in the flesh, the C9 outputs more power and generates more headroom with a 600ohm pair of headphones. They use different amp technology, so these variances are to be expected. The same is no less true of the WA8; it too can drive my 600ohm Beyerdynamics without issue. I understand @HiFiHawaii808 has even driven his Susvara on the WA8 to an acceptable level. The BA300s - which I've had - doesn't even deserve mention here: it's worthless! It adds nothing; only 3db gain or something. I recommend people avoid it.

- Tube rolling is optional, not mandatory. The stock tubes are excellent and will be "enough" for the majority of users.

In terms of price, i's expensive but the one thing you omitted to say is that the WA8 is a fully fledged all-in-one device. It's not just a tube amp, it also has an excellent DAC implemented. I see it as being comparable to something like the Hugo 2 in this respect (obviously totally different performance and tech) but at the same level nonetheless.

In any case, worth demoing yourself. They're both great amps doing different things!

 

[ssriram2791]

Hi, glad it was helpful.

Just as a prefatory comment on your remarks: clearly the C9 "out-specs" the WA8 on a number of levels. But the motivation of my review/comparison was not to assess which is ahead in this respect, but rather to assess whether they're a mutually edifying pair of amps to own (which I think they are). I've had the C9 since it was launched and continue to love it, and can't ever see myself selling it. But the one thing the WA8 that is different is actually offer a tube sound. The C9 is an incredibly resolving amp, but if you're looking for a warm tube sound, it's the wrong amp. This is why I think it's nice to have both amps; they offer totally different tonalities and timbres.

On your questions:

- The battery on the WA8 is not user replaceable in the way the C9 is. Probably it can be replaced in the way a Mojo battery can; no doubt @HiFiGuy528 might provide some clarity here.

- I'll do a sustained test on battery life today. Running now in USB DAC mode and will repeat test in LO mode.

- You'd have to test yourself for dynamics and staging. As I say, C9 has better micro-detail, better imaging, and separation; WA8 has more energetic dynamics with a larger stage.

- Yes, C9 is obviously more powerful. But as I say, numbers aren't everything. I recently had the FiiO M17, which is an excellent DAP. On paper, it's more powerful than the C9; in the flesh, the C9 outputs more power and generates more headroom with a 600ohm pair of headphones. They use different amp technology, so these variances are to be expected. The same is no less true of the WA8; it too can drive my 600ohm Beyerdynamics without issue. I understand @HiFiHawaii808 has even driven his Susvara on the WA8 to an acceptable level. The BA300s - which I've had - doesn't even deserve mention here: it's worthless! It adds nothing; only 3db gain or something. I recommend people avoid it.

- Tube rolling is optional, not mandatory. The stock tubes are excellent and will be "enough" for the majority of users.

In terms of price, i's expensive but the one thing you omitted to say is that the WA8 is a fully fledged all-in-one device. It's not just a tube amp, it also has an excellent DAC implemented. I see it as being comparable to something like the Hugo 2 in this respect (obviously totally different performance and tech) but at the same level nonetheless.

In any case, worth demoing yourself. They're both great amps doing different things!

Lets just say we agree to disagree on saying C9 doesn't have tube effect. I hear things differently compared to how you and many others do. However, I do appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Nostoi]

Lets just say we agree to disagree on saying C9 doesn't have tube effect. I hear things differently compared to how you and many others do. However, I do appreciate your thoughts.

The C9 has a tube effect - but just that an effect. Does it sound like a full tube amp? No, of course not. And I don't think anyone who has the C9 would say so. That's just not what Korg Nutubes are designed to do, and that's not to detract from the C9. What it does it does exceptionally well.

 

[dadracer2]

Lets just say we agree to disagree on saying C9 doesn't have tube effect. I hear things differently compared to how you and many others do. However, I do appreciate your thoughts.

I guess tube effect means different things to different people. Indeed some people use it as a negative comment to describe a warm, syrupy sound. I think the C9 has a degree of valve warmth in class A setting but it's real valve strength to me is it's midrange openness and fantastic soundstage that are hallmarks of a good triode amp.

 

[ssriram2791]

I guess tube effect means different things to different people. Indeed some people use it as a negative comment to describe a warm, syrupy sound. I think the C9 has a degree of valve warmth in class A setting but it's real valve strength to me is it's midrange openness and fantastic soundstage that are hallmarks of a good triode amp.

Exactly. My thoughts.

 

[NewEve]

Shameless plug: my like-new Cayin N6ii bundled with the R01 module is up for grabs.

 

[linnsondek]

I have a question regarding MQA and the R01 audio motherboard. It has been stated here that the R01 cannot unfold the MQA file in the same way as other audio motherboards. However when I use Tidal or Roon both players and the bar at the top of the player show an unfold up to 384Kb/s. Is this an erroneous message?

 

[SteeLMinder]

I have a question regarding MQA and the R01 audio motherboard. It has been stated here that the R01 cannot unfold the MQA file in the same way as other audio motherboards. However when I use Tidal or Roon both players and the bar at the top of the player show an unfold up to 384Kb/s. Is this an erroneous message?

I also had such a message, but it does not mean anything, R01 doesn't support MQA.

 

[HiFiGuy528]

On your questions:

- The battery on the WA8 is not user replaceable in the way the C9 is. Probably it can be replaced in the way a Mojo battery can; no doubt @HiFiGuy528 might provide some clarity here.

To ensure the battery service is performed correctly and for safety and repair QC test, WA8 eclipse battery is not user serviceable. Battery charger controllers and the quality of the cells has improved significantly from the time when batteries were user replaceable. Like ALL modern battery-operated devices, the battery should last many years.

FWIW, my personal WA8 is from 2016 and is still on the original battery.

 

[Rayzilla]

Has anyone here had a software problem. I can't even remember what the message said on the screen because it was so long ago that it happened. Something to do with Android being the problem.

Anyways, three months ago (December 3), I went to the shop where I bought my N6II to try out some IEMs. When I tried to start my N6II, it wouldn't start up as normal and showed some small font message regarding a problem with Android if I recall correctly. I should have taken a screenshot of it. The shop guys couldn't get it fixed so that said that they would send it to Cayin to check on it. I thought it might take a week to two since we are in Hong Kong, like a couple of hours drive to Cayin's office I am correct. I've been in contact with my shop guy but he said it's hard to get things into China. But this long? I contacted him last week and no sign of it coming back soon.

Has anyone else sent gear back to Cayin to get checked or worked on? If so, how long do they take? Sorry for the rant but it's been three months since I've had my N6II. Given that new daps come out every year, this is not acceptable. Ok. I'm going back to my Bailey's with Coffee to chill down now.