[glassmonkey]

ok after about 90hours with e02 i did some comparison with e01 yesterday.

First let’s talk about e02 on it’s own, after burn in e02 start to warm up a bit, sounds to me like a01 but with improved separation and resolution.

However the sound is still not as holographic as t01, not to mention e01 in class a mode. And I generally don’t even consider t01 holographic...

I use my friends’s hybrid multi driver iem for the comparison, it’s much easier to drive than my a8000. With the same song(and same software:neutron), e01(class a)’s soundstage have much better frontal depth and it just have this holographic feeling to the sound(Not like a lot but enough for a mobile setup).without a hefty load e02 start to sound less impressive than before....the soundstage is very wide with much reduced frontal depth. Separation is better than e01 but that’s unnecessary, with a very horizontal sound stage it just not fun and very tiresome for your attention To constantly shifting from left to right. Transparency wise they are about the same level, e02 is slightly more transparent due to improved separation.

N6ii have very limited space for what they called ‘audio motherboard’ truth is it’s a mini-soundcard connected through pci with n6ii. The limited space is responsible for dac&amp Structure which is impossible to do any of those part to a very good level. But for a mid-fi dap n6ii is doing great, All of the Replaceable soundcard sounds relatively good on their own And they all stay in the same league. But amongst all those sound card i think e01 is the most unique and technologically complicated one. Implementing a full size 9038 pro is not an easy task, and you can hear the difference between 9038 pro and 9038 q2m after some quick ab test, 9038 is ultimately bit more revealing on micro details. I would very love to see an e03 with two 9038 pro and only line-out Output in the future.

E02’s advantage is it’s transparency and driving power also the line-out. And that’s it, if you don’t have a demanding headphone you don’t need e02. Just Go with e01

How did you do conduct 'quick' A/Bing while having to switch out audio motherboards? Did you make all your comparisons with one DAP? Did you volume match? Also, 'my friend's hybrid multi-driver' is pretty darn vague. We don't know what the characteristics of the IEM are and don't know it's name. I'm sorry, but your impressions could be a lot more helpful with some basic level reporting on your methods.

The statements on space on the 'audio motherboard' are not defensible. The modular nature of the N6ii moves off some components that frequently take up space, like the buttons, memory card, power components, and processor. Without comparing the internals of other DAPs and the representation of all components, you simply can't say what you are saying with any confidence. The statement about making an E03 with two 9038Pros is logically inconsistent when made directly after saying that you can't do much in the motherboard spatial format. The 9038Pro is incredibly power hungry and takes up a ton of board real-estate. The post you've made comes off like it's made by an expert to a casual reader. It needs far more caveats than have been put forward.

This is not to say that your conclusions couldn't be accurate, it's just that the uncertainty around them due to suspect statements and unreported methods is high.

 

[greyforest]

How did you do conduct 'quick' A/Bing while having to switch out audio motherboards? Did you make all your comparisons with one DAP? Did you volume match? Also, 'my friend's hybrid multi-driver' is pretty darn vague. We don't know what the characteristics of the IEM are and don't know it's name. I'm sorry, but your impressions could be a lot more helpful with some basic level reporting on your methods.

The statements on space on the 'audio motherboard' are not defensible. The modular nature of the N6ii moves off some components that frequently take up space, like the buttons, memory card, power components, and processor. Without comparing the internals of other DAPs and the representation of all components, you simply can't say what you are saying with any confidence. The statement about making an E03 with two 9038Pros is logically inconsistent when made directly after saying that you can't do much in the motherboard spatial format. The 9038Pro is incredibly power hungry and takes up a ton of board real-estate. The post you've made comes off like it's made by an expert to a casual reader. It needs far more caveats than have been put forward.

This is not to say that your conclusions couldn't be accurate, it's just that the uncertainty around them due to suspect statements and unreported methods is high.

Here is some answers to your accusations ,and take it easy i am not trying to do your jobs.

1.i do have 2 n6ii for comparison, one belongs to my friend.
2. I didn’t say the name of the iem because it’s not an international brand, even if i said it won’t help much. Therefore I stated the structure and most important traits of this iem. It’s an hybrid multi driver iem that is easy to drive. If you must know the name, blue oriolus. Sold only in japan and china.
3. I am not writing an essay or review, just my impression.
4. I volume match the test condition by hearing it. You know like a normal person’s methods of doing this.
5. About the 9038 e03 bit, if you see the picture most of the mini sound card’s space is used for amp section, especially e02, those 9038q2m have very little power circuits around it to provide proper environment for ideal performance, therefore I suggested a pure line-out soundcard, get rid of those amp section that sounds ok, and just focus on dacs and line signal amplifier.not to mention the incoming c9 amplifier cayin is still working on, it would make a lot of sense to have a pure line-out soundcard to maximize the dac value.

 

[greyforest]

How did you do conduct 'quick' A/Bing while having to switch out audio motherboards? Did you make all your comparisons with one DAP? Did you volume match? Also, 'my friend's hybrid multi-driver' is pretty darn vague. We don't know what the characteristics of the IEM are and don't know it's name. I'm sorry, but your impressions could be a lot more helpful with some basic level reporting on your methods.

The statements on space on the 'audio motherboard' are not defensible. The modular nature of the N6ii moves off some components that frequently take up space, like the buttons, memory card, power components, and processor. Without comparing the internals of other DAPs and the representation of all components, you simply can't say what you are saying with any confidence. The statement about making an E03 with two 9038Pros is logically inconsistent when made directly after saying that you can't do much in the motherboard spatial format. The 9038Pro is incredibly power hungry and takes up a ton of board real-estate. The post you've made comes off like it's made by an expert to a casual reader. It needs far more caveats than have been put forward.

This is not to say that your conclusions couldn't be accurate, it's just that the uncertainty around them due to suspect statements and unreported methods is high.

Some other details if you are still interested

The cable i use with blue oriolus have multiple terminations(dita awesome plug) , I can switch between 3.5 and 4.4 in a second.

Both n6ii had a run time of 30mins before the comparison, because my friends tried my e02 for a while and i was using his n6ii with e01 to pass time.

The track i used for comparison is monk’s mood by Charles lloyd.

 

[DaYooper]

When I do my own amateur comparisons I'll be using headphones, like the ones listed in my Signature. I'll have two N6ii and all the cards to use. The E02 should arrive today so I'll give it a little listen before I start the burn in. More details later this week.

 

[mashuto]

Dude, the amplification isn't the same. It's got more components, and no pure class A mode. It's going to be different. Also, DAC from same manufacturer doesn't mean sounds the same. There are very diverse ESS9018 tunings that I've heard and very diverse AKM tunings on all their models (I've heard a lot of 4490 implementations and a few 4493 implementations). You very may well be right about power needs defining what you should do if you already have the E01, but I'd wager that it sounds different at the same volume for the reasons I've stated. Alas, I don't have an E01 module to test and without having two units, if they are similar sounding as you hypothesise, the switching time will be too long to reliably identify differences.

All fine points. No need to get up on arms about it. Also, if I misread the tone of your post, my apologies.

I just felt sceptical of all the initial claims that the e02 was the greatest thing since sliced bread without any actual comparisons having been offered up. Especially when some of the exact same things were said about the e01. There's always just so much hyperbole thrown around in this hobby.

Also this isn't about me defending what I own, or trying to put down something I haven't heard, I just wanted to hear a bit more objective comparisons (if objective is even truly possible) instead of the very subjective hyperbole that was getting tossed around.

I'm sure the e02 is great. My experience with the n6ii and the two motherboards I do own has been great so I wouldn't expect cayin to put out a bad product. But even cayin themselves have been very careful not to claim individual boards are "better" than any others, just that they target different things. So again, my scepticism at some of the initial impressions i was reading. And that it seems like this was meant to be a different flavor of the e01 (hence why its an "e" board) that targets balanced output and more power. Two things I personally don't happen to need.

Anyways, likely the last I'll say about the e02 since it's not really for me. Just will watch for further impressions.

 

[DaYooper]

Two things I personally don't happen to need.

Is it ever really about "need"?

 

[twister6]

Let me add a little more oil to the fire, I mean, my 2cents to the discussion

In the last 2 days I received a ton (literally speaking) of questions with people asking about E01 vs E02, either to upgrade to E02 if they already have E01 or which one to choose since places like Musicteck offer N6ii with either E01 or E02. I will cover more details when I have review ready, so this is just my brief thoughts relative to these two. And yes, according to my "standards", this is brief I did some listening and comparison with U18t, Legend X, Solaris, Empyrean, and Beyer’s T5p 2nd gen. Also, while not recommended by manufacturer, these DAC/amp cards actually work flawless as plug’n’play. If screws are not in, you can switch between cards within a second by pulling on the headphone/earphone cable. Also, a very interesting observation, considering you have the latest fw update specific to E02. I set a volume level on one card, then unplug and set the volume level on another one, and when go back to the first card the volume switches back to the level I have set before; it remembers the last volume setting for that specific card. Thus, it is literally a matter of a second to pull a card out and plug the next one in.

Regarding audio performance. E02 is balanced and its power output scales up accordingly, when compared to single ended E01 (Class AB). In many cases I heard a difference of about 5-6 volume clicks from E01 to E02. In terms of tonality, based on my initial impressions, E02 fits somewhere between E01 (A) and (AB), being a lot closer to Class AB of E01. If you are expecting to hear a big sound difference going from E01 to E02, it’s not. E01 always surprised me by having such a wide soundstage expansion for single ended architecture. E02 soundstage is just a little bit wider, but not by whole lot. That’s big props to E01 SE design. In terms of tonality/signature difference compared to E01, E02 has a beefier low end, with more analog sub-bass rumble, not drastic but I do hear it in both IEMs and full size. That is where I hear the bass performance of E02 to be somewhere between E01 A and AB, the bass is not as fast as in E01 (AB) but the attack is definitely faster than E01 (A). Also, mids/vocals with E02 have a little more natural body comparing to E01 (AB) and at the same time more transparent in comparison to E01 (A). Again, that’s why I put the tonal performance of E02 to be somewhere between E01 (A) and E01 (AB).

If you are using only high sensitivity IEMs, your typical Campfire Audio, Empire Ears, and some 64 Audio, you will hear more waterfall type of background hissing (going from E01 to E02) in instrumental quiet passages of the songs. In most of the tracks I’m listening to (top40, EDM, pop/rock) at normal volume level, I hardly even hear it. For the reference, my “hissing” test track is Agnes Obel “The Curse”, first 30 seconds of the intro. So, keep that in mind, which makes sense since you are dealing with higher power output.

Bottom line, if you already have N6ii w/E01 and use IEMs and less demanding headphones and perfectly happy with the pair up synergy/performance and don’t have any future plans to move up the chain to more demanding headphones or to use external amplifier – stick with E01, especially if you are using mostly sensitive IEMs. If you want to have more flexibility to use bigger variety of IEMs and headphones and considering external amp – E02 is the way to go, upgrading from E01. If you are deciding between E01 and E02, I would probably go with E02 because of more flexibility AND because, according to Andy, with a proper custom adapter (connecting L+, R+, GND of 4.4mm) you can “’turn” E02 balanced into single ended. I’m actually waiting for Double Helix guys to send me such adapter (requested Peter over the weekend), and I think this could be a very interesting comparison to see how E02 with SE adapter stacks up against E01.

And like I said, if you want to scale up the performance of your more demanding headphones and to use a balanced external amp, E02 with its 4.4mm LO is the way to go (below, Romi Audio BX2 balanced Class A portable amp).

 

[glassmonkey]

For those wondering about ideal test situation for audio motherboards, @greyforest came close with his comparison:

1. Two DAPs, one with each card, both with similar amounts of usage
2. Both audio motherboards adequately run-in (just to reduce uncertainty, not because we expect that it has an effect)
3. Two identical headphones with two identical cables (failing this, one IEM with the ability to switch quickly, like @greyforest above)
4. Volume matching using SPL metre or other measurement coupling (our ears are often not that sensitive, some folks can't detect 2dB swings reliably)
5. Listening should be done on more than one track
6. Switches should be blinded, ideally
7. Switches in less than 10 seconds (I don't think instantaneous is actually good, as our brain smooths over the difference due to expectation--like reading words with missing letters)
8. Multiple switches should be done

When doing comparisons, all the information should be reported with regard to objective volume levels and methods. Limitations of methods should be acknowledged, or at a minimum, clear from reporting. I doubt I'll be able to blind, and I doubt I'll be able to use two identical IEMs, but I'm going to do the best with what I've got and acknowledge the limitations of my methods.

 

[thecrow]

maybe it’s just me but i am happy with simply honest opinions on what others have found and how they compare gear. Their humble observations and experiences.

It’s always good to know what gear they were using and what they usually use as a reference

i guess similar to the way darko audio operates

i personally don’t need anything too scientific in terms of process. Nor do i demand it before taking on board someone’s views

all contributions/opinions are welcomed

 

[twister6]

maybe it’s just me but i am happy with simply honest opinions on what others have found and how they compare gear. Their humble observations and experiences.

It’s always good to know what gear they were using and what they usually use as a reference

i guess similar to the way darko audio operates

i personally don’t need anything too scientific in terms of process. Nor do i demand it before taking on board someone’s views

all contributions/opinions are welcomed

That's why to make an educated decision, you need as many data points, reading reviews and impressions from both "reviewer" and "consumer" perspective. That's the only way to paint the full picture

 

[Andykong]

Just went through all the new posts in past few days, I am so excited to see all the active discussion regarding, the response is much stronger then I expected, we are flattered, simply flattered.

As someone has quoted us earlier on, Cayin didn't design any Audio Motherboard as an upgrade of another Audio Motherboard, we always put in 100% to each and every product. If I have to answer the E01 vs E02 question, I can only say this depends on your choice of earphones/headphones, your choice of music, your personal preference on music presentation, and your system requirements (e.g., line out). I am not being political, this is truly our attitude towards all the Audio Motherboards we offered.

To be honest, even million dollar system has to face its constraint and compromise, DAP certainly can't get away from that. The modular structure we adopted offered a lot of flexibility relatively, but still there are just that much we can achieve within that architecture, limited space, limited battery, over-heated, ... etc are all common issues we need to struggle with. We tried our best, but we can't please everyone, that will be a mission impossible in DAP sector, so we don't intend to. If you happen to like what we offered, that's great, and we hope you'll continue to support us.

 

[Andykong]

For those wondering about ideal test situation for audio motherboards, @greyforest came close with his comparison:

1. Two DAPs, one with each card, both with similar amounts of usage
2. Both audio motherboards adequately run-in (just to reduce uncertainty, not because we expect that it has an effect)
3. Two identical headphones with two identical cables (failing this, one IEM with the ability to switch quickly, like @greyforest above)
4. Volume matching using SPL metre or other measurement coupling (our ears are often not that sensitive, some folks can't detect 2dB swings reliably)
5. Listening should be done on more than one track
6. Switches should be blinded, ideally
7. Switches in less than 10 seconds (I don't think instantaneous is actually good, as our brain smooths over the difference due to expectation--like reading words with missing letters)
8. Multiple switches should be done

When doing comparisons, all the information should be reported with regard to objective volume levels and methods. Limitations of methods should be acknowledged, or at a minimum, clear from reporting. I doubt I'll be able to blind, and I doubt I'll be able to use two identical IEMs, but I'm going to do the best with what I've got and acknowledge the limitations of my methods.

maybe it’s just me but i am happy with simply honest opinions on what others have found and how they compare gear. Their humble observations and experiences.

It’s always good to know what gear they were using and what they usually use as a reference

i guess similar to the way darko audio operates

i personally don’t need anything too scientific in terms of process. Nor do i demand it before taking on board someone’s views

all contributions/opinions are welcomed

To me, both approach are valid and should be well-received.

@glassmonkey try to eliminate as many variables as possible and achieve "repeatability" in his review, these are corner stones of objective measurement.

While @thecrow is sharing his subjective impression, as long as his impression is honest and impartial, it is a valid impression, and if we enough contributors following the same practise, say 20 users sharing impartial subjective impression, then the conclusion we gathered from all these impression will become an objective impression.

 

[starck86]

Time to see what all the fuss is about!

 

[wahdoy]

Can't wait to your comments on the E02. Do you already have an E01 to compare?

 

[glassmonkey]

Time to see what all the fuss is about!

The E02 might give the Rupert Neve a run for it's money. I'm interested to hear a comparison, not just line-out.