[seanwee]

Regardless of where the N3 Pro sites in a lineup of DAPs, I personally don't find the difference in-between DAPs worth their price differences.

Pass the USD750 mark, I find that the law of diminishing return hits really hard, especially for DAPs. It's no science but I'll put that mark at around USD1000 for headphones and IEMs.

For better or worse, what I'm expecting from the N3 Pro is the tubes to sound radically different from anything else.

The AKM DACs probably won't even be turned on short of curiosity as I never was a fan of their sound signature.

We'll see I guess.

The hell are you going on about? Without the DACs you wont be hearing anything. You do realise the tubes are just part of the audio output, they are no replacement for the DACs.

 

[NewEve]

The hell are you going on about? Without the DACs you wont be hearing anything. You do realise the tubes are just part of the audio output, they are no replacement for the DACs.

Yeah that was a very poor way of saying that I'm expecting the tube timbre to sound radically different from the solid state timbre.

 

[seanwee]

Yeah that was a very poor way of saying that I'm expecting the tube timbre to sound radically different from the solid state timbre.

Its more interesting than A&K's idea of placing two different dacs in a dap for sure.

 

[davidmolliere]

Its more interesting than A&K's idea of placing two different dacs in a dap for sure.

It's not a bad idea, I just prefer the N6ii and its modular DAC/amp architecture or to a lesser extent iBasso amp cards much more versatile and future proof... that or the N8 and N3 Pro that boast a Tube output

 

[Andykong]

Hi Andy, for the pre-ordered unit, besides of this Dignis leather case, will it come with the clean plastic case 清水套 please?

The N3Pro retail package included a silicon protective case already.

The optional leather case is not Dignis branded.

 

[PopZeus]

I'm actually digging the heck out of the green leather case.

It sounds like the N3Pro is supposed to define what entry-level DAP sounds like to Cayin. We won't really know what that means until the N3Pro is released. At least, that translated review raises a few more questions.

 

[Jeffyue]

I'm actually digging the heck out of the green leather case.

It sounds like the N3Pro is supposed to define what entry-level DAP sounds like to Cayin. We won't really know what that means until the N3Pro is released. At least, that translated review raises a few more questions.

Be calm
and
Wait4 Twister6!

 

[Andykong]

Can I run an HD650 or T50rp on this without need for external amplification?

Yes, you can, but not recommended.

N3Pro is powerful enough to play loud with both HD650 and T50RP, if you only deal with simple music such as 1 instrument + 1 vocal, then they probably will be enjoyable, and the HD650 probably will perform slightly better then T50RP. However, when you playback more demanding music, with more instruments and vocal, exhibit wider dynamic range, etc etc, you'll start to notice the shortcoming of these pairings. These are good headphones, N3Pro doesn't do it justice at all.

 

[Andykong]

Thanks for the reply Andy.

Always appreciate the openness of your messages.
Hope to catch up at the next Singapore CamJam when it becomes available. Stay safe and take care.

The N3Pro was originally scheduled to debut at CanJam Singapore 2020, too bad we missed that opportunity.

 

[Andykong]

Based off a decent google translation, sounds like it’s a bit of a mixed bag. Not overly negative but certainly not calling it a giant killer or punching above its weight.

am I missing something, this is just 1 paragraph quick impression, not even sure if this is a final product or engineering sample or it had any burn in?

The N3Pro is a mass production unit, first production batch. We send samples to shops and press on 1 August and
hosted audition events in several cities already, so we have quite a number of first impression reviews in Chinese already.

I happen to know this reviewer, we know each other since the original N6 beta test. He is a long term supporter of Cayin DAP, basically own and published review for each and every Cayin DAP. I don't think his review is negative, his writing style is not very straight forward and descriptive, and Google translate is not helping. So I rather wait for first impression from English speaking reviewers, which is not too far away from now

 

[NewEve]

The N3Pro retail package included a silicon protective case already.



The optional leather case is not Dignis branded.

That's my fault. Since I'm not a big fan of the green leather case I'll receive with my pre-order, I mentioned that I'll wait for Dignis to come with one I'll like better.

 

[monsieurfromag3]

Its more interesting than A&K's idea of placing two different dacs in a dap for sure.

The premium from that A&K just for a different taste of number-crunching...

Cayin did well for me to put less emphasis on the DAC and go all-out on amplification, that’s 99% what matters. From DACs I ask they just do their job mostly transparently, with the stupid Android stack not interfering.

Amplification > bit-perfect playback (no silly upsampling please) > codec if wireless (more because of tuning than data rate restrictions from aptX/AAC up) > DAC > file format (from 320 kbps up).

@Andykong you’re making me worried stating the N3Pro is a bad source for those headphones. Is it just because of the load? I know it’s not the N8, but those 800mW from the bal output are desktop-grade specification! Do you have pointers on what you think the N3Pro drives well and is a good match for? Either in iems or headphones.

 

[Andykong]

Looking forward to your thoughts and review! Even as their entry level, it's priced more alongside the mid-tier of DAPs, with the N6ii still double what those other mid-tiers are. If the ideas is that the N3Pro is meant to compete with $450 up to even somewhere close to the N6ii it should matching up with $800-900 DAPs.

$899 vs $479? That will be 1.88 : 1, a very tough premium. To be honest, if we were meant to compete with $800-900 DAPs, then someone in Cayin has make a very big mistake by setting the price to US$479.

We should set the price to $699 to start with. with 15% to 25% price advantage, that would put us in a very good position and lead our potential customers and media to compare N3Pro to these "targeted" DAP directly. The current suggested retail price will mislead them to compare against the wrong competitors.

We never intend to compete against products that are doubled our price, and no one should. Supposingly we know our market, and we shouldn't make that kind of mistakes.

It would be puzzling to consider the N3 pro, a potential "giant killer".
Considering its numbering (and suggested hierarchy in their portable line), i'd stretch the idea no further than a competitor of the FiiO M11?

And that might also be a stretch considering Cayin also has an N5 and i5 tier in their portable.

Kinda like expecting the 1 2 3 Kid beating the Undertaker ... in a straight and fair fight (wrestling reference).

Interesting, so the product number is the reason behind inappropriate expectations?

Well, we don't have any plan to develop a DAP between N3Pro and N6ii right now. We might do that one day, but not immediately. Keeping four tiers of DAPs actively requires a lot of resources, maybe more then we can afford. Ideally we need to come out with a new generation of DAP within 24-30 months because a very big percentage of the total sales were conducted in the first 12 months of product launch, majority consumer are reluctant to buy "aged" DAP, can't blame them because they were given a lot of new choices every year (or even every months), so if we couldn't catch up the product refinement and development cycle of four tiers DAP and extended the product life to 36 or 48 months, we basically surrender our market share to our competitors. I believe most DAP brands are having difficulties to keep 4-tiers product lineup competitively, Cayin is not alone on this camp.

If we only intend to keep three tiers of DAPs in our line put, given we have N6ii and N8 already, what is the pros and cons to number this DAP as N3Pro or N5iii? Will N5iii brings in more questions given i5, N5ii and N5iiS are Android based?

I think Andy mentioned in one of the previous posts that they are hitting the reset and re-aligning to be more clear with a focus on 3 tiers: N3Pro being their lower-tier non-Android tube/solidstate output model, N6ii being their mid-tier Android modular model, and N8 being their upper-tier flagship non-Android model. I'm intentionally not using "entry level, mid-fi, and summit-fi" because it is hard to call N3Pro an entry level like the original N3 or something like R3 Pro. There is definitely a gray area of what we can call entry level nowadays.

Expecting to receive N3Pro by the end of this week, and hopefully after a burn in over the weekend can start sharing some impressions next week.

I just explained the 3 tier product line up concept again.

We can stick with "entry level" if we have an open minded. For instance, what's the retail price of entry level Astell&Kern DAP? I think this is a perfectly legitimate question.

Looking forwards to your N3Pro impression. We send out the packages ASAP, its most unfortunately that the logistic has delayed,

 

[Andykong]

The premium from that A&K just for a different taste of number-crunching...

Cayin did well for me to put less emphasis on the DAC and go all-out on amplification, that’s 99% what matters. From DACs I ask they just do their job mostly transparently, with the stupid Android stack not interfering.

Amplification > bit-perfect playback (no silly upsampling please) > codec if wireless (more because of tuning than data rate restrictions from aptX/AAC up) > DAC > file format (from 320 kbps up).

@Andykong you’re making me worried stating the N3Pro is a bad source for those headphones. Is it just because of the load? I know it’s not the N8, but those 800mW from the bal output are desktop-grade specification! Do you have pointers on what you think the N3Pro drives well and is a good match for? Either in iems or headphones.

To your surprise, I'll offer almost exactly the same answer if you were to ask me whether N8 DAP can drive these two headphone satisfactory. So the problem is not N3Pro, I simply think these headphones are designed for desktop system, and our DAP will not do them justice. My reference point will be using N3Pro or N6ii as source, line out to Cayin iHA-6 (a $699 desktop headphone amp). Adding a relatively low-cost headphone amplifier will change the picture completely.

I am sure someone will find them enjoyable with N3Pro, but as an audiophile, I rather don't recommend them and suggest you to save up for a more beefy amplifier options.

 

[seanwee]

Interesting, so the product number is the reason behind inappropriate expectations?

Well, we don't have any plan to develop a DAP between N3Pro and N6ii right now. We might do that one day, but not immediately. Keeping four tiers of DAPs actively requires a lot of resources, maybe more then we can afford. Ideally we need to come out with a new generation of DAP within 24-30 months because a very big percentage of the total sales were conducted in the first 12 months of product launch, majority consumer are reluctant to buy "aged" DAP, can't blame them because they were given a lot of new choices every year (or even every months), so if we couldn't catch up the product refinement and development cycle of four tiers DAP and extended the product life to 36 or 48 months, we basically surrender our market share to our competitors. I believe most DAP brands are having difficulties to keep 4-tiers product lineup competitively, Cayin is not alone on this camp.

If we only intend to keep three tiers of DAPs in our line put, given we have N6ii and N8 already, what is the pros and cons to number this DAP as N3Pro or N5iii? Will N5iii brings in more questions given i5, N5ii and N5iiS are Android based?

So youre implying that theres a possiblility that there will be an N1 in the future ?

As I understand it the current product stack is
Mid-fi : N3Pro
Hi-fi : N6ii
Summit-fi : N8

That leaves the budget segment open