[Auricon]

A brief 24-hour update after our announcement regarding the hissing issue of N30LE.

We have continued our study on the hissing problem. According to our working theory by the end of day 1, the problem is related to specific capacitive loading characteristics that show up in unit variance occasionally. It only exhibits in Class A and Hyper mode, so we focused on the working current of the discrete headphone amplification circuit.

After numerous tests and auditions, we managed to eliminate the hissing problem on the returned N30LE by adjusting the bias setting of the discrete headphone amplifier circuit. For those who are unfamiliar with the discrete circuit of N30LE, please refer to our explanation in Post #195, in which I quote the most relevant paragraph below for your reference:




We have noticed that by re-biasing the circuit to a new parameter, the hissing problem is eliminated completely, and if we adjust the bias setting back to previous parameters, the hissing problem will reoccur, so we are pretty sure that this will solve the problem from our Engineering point of view. The bias setting will affect both Class A and Class AB playback, the change to audio performance is minimal and inaudible.

However, we need some time to verify our solution. As of today, we have received 3 hissing complaints from China (including Hong Kong) out of the 120+ units we delivered. We have only received one returned unit and that’s the base of our problem-solving exercises. We’ll pick three N30LE from our inventory, adjust the operation bias to our new reference parameters, go through the QA process again, and send out these DAPs to the dealers of the three users who reported the hissing problem. Assuming the new batch of DAP can pass the hissing test with the IEM/headphone/cable that they had trouble with previously, we’ll send out another batch of N30LE to our overseas dealers immediately, and they can replace the hissing N30LE of their client. We believe this arrangement will minimize the delay of our users from sending out their N30LE DAP to receiving an N30LE replacement.

@Andykong

This is great progress and news!

Thank you for everything you do with transparent updates to coordinating with dealers and assisting affected owners.

Also big shout out and sincerest thanks to Andrew and his team at @MusicTeck for their always amazing support.

 

[fiascogarcia]

Given that the problem was identified and there will be a new reference parameter applied which seems to be more correct than the current one for the delivered units, wouldn’t that be the case for a recall? What if most users who still didn’t come across this issue (because they don’t use the specific incompatible cable or IEM at the moment) start having the issue in the future?

I would expect that having a recall would be detrimental to the customers that are currently experiencing the problems. No sense flooding Cayin with units that are working satisfactorily at this point. Lets get the owners that can't enjoy their DAPs right now, taken care of first. Maybe the better alternative would be to extend the warranty on this particular DAP to protect owners from future problems. Or make it a two tiered process: fix or replace units with existing problems first, then allow owners of remaining serial numbers the opportunity to return for the determined adjustments.

 

[Torq]

[Tagging @Andykong for reference.]

Replacement unit arrived (thanks to Andrew at @MusicTeck).

This unit is also faulty - but now its the same as the hissing issue others have reported.

Prevalent waterfall hiss, audible over the music, right from power-on, but only in Class A and Hyper modes and only via the 4.4mm connection. No need to get it warm. It happens from cold, and is 100% repeatable.

...

So ... now the questions are: a) what the process, and timing, will be to get this remedied (assuming the fix identified by Cayin is the whole solution) and b) do I have the patience to deal with that, and the faith that it won't take weeks to get remedied, or just say "to hell with it" right now and get it refunded.

 

[aaf evo]

[Tagging @Andykong for reference.]

Replacement unit arrived (thanks to Andrew at @MusicTeck).

This unit is also faulty - but now its the same as the hissing issue others have reported.

Prevalent waterfall hiss, audible over the music, right from power-on, but only in Class A and Hyper modes and only via the 4.4mm connection. No need to get it warm. It happens from cold, and is 100% repeatable.

...

So ... now the questions are: a) what the process, and timing, will be to get this remedied (assuming the fix identified by Cayin is the whole solution) and b) do I have the patience to deal with that, and the faith that it won't take weeks to get remedied, or just say "to hell with it" right now and get it refunded.

Oh dear

Makes me wonder if I had some of your gear that’s not working well with N30 if my DAP would show these same problems too.

I would pay round trip shipping to test something with my unit if you’re up for it, or anyone else.

 

[zoidbb]

[Tagging @Andykong for reference.]

Replacement unit arrived (thanks to Andrew at @MusicTeck).

This unit is also faulty - but now its the same as the hissing issue others have reported.

Prevalent waterfall hiss, audible over the music, right from power-on, but only in Class A and Hyper modes and only via the 4.4mm connection. No need to get it warm. It happens from cold, and is 100% repeatable.

...

So ... now the questions are: a) what the process, and timing, will be to get this remedied (assuming the fix identified by Cayin is the whole solution) and b) do I have the patience to deal with that, and the faith that it won't take weeks to get remedied, or just say "to hell with it" right now and get it refunded.

This is exactly why I asked Andrew to hold off on replacement until Cayin had a root cause identified. Hopefully the bias change is a real fix. I’m a little surprised they didn’t set up the bias to be configurable through firmware, that would have made this an easy OTA update for everyone.

 

[Torq]

Makes me wonder if I had some of your gear that’s not working well with N30 if my DAP would show these same problems too.

I'll try a broader array of gear, now that I can (only had IEMs with me the first time), and list what works/doesn't.

I would pay round trip shipping to test something with my unit if you’re up for it, or anyone else.

I'll have to pass on that, I'm afraid.

This is exactly why I asked Andrew to hold off on replacement until Cayin had a root cause identified.

I thought about it at the time, but was of the mind that if a 2nd unit didn't work I was out anyway. At least this way, no one else is going to get either of the units I've had (which have DIFFERENT issues, though maybe related ones - particularly the hiss) and maybe NOT find out they have a problem until they got a new set of IEMs or headphones that then DID expose the issue.

---

Still thinking about what I want to do here (other than trying some other headphones as a diagnostic, since if I do return it I can't ship it out until tomorrow anyway). I have an idea of what would be acceptable, but I highly doubt it's something Cayin would actually do. Will think a bit more, and post that idea once it's percolated a bit.

 

[RonaldS86]

[Tagging @Andykong for reference.]

Replacement unit arrived (thanks to Andrew at @MusicTeck).

This unit is also faulty - but now its the same as the hissing issue others have reported.

Prevalent waterfall hiss, audible over the music, right from power-on, but only in Class A and Hyper modes and only via the 4.4mm connection. No need to get it warm. It happens from cold, and is 100% repeatable.

...

So ... now the questions are: a) what the process, and timing, will be to get this remedied (assuming the fix identified by Cayin is the whole solution) and b) do I have the patience to deal with that, and the faith that it won't take weeks to get remedied, or just say "to hell with it" right now and get it refunded.

I can feel your disappointment bro
I'm fully understand if you opt for refund right away, but I hope you have enough patience to deal with the problem because N30LE is worth fighting for IMO

 

[zoidbb]

A brief 24-hour update after our announcement regarding the hissing issue of N30LE.

We have continued our study on the hissing problem. According to our working theory by the end of day 1, the problem is related to specific capacitive loading characteristics that show up in unit variance occasionally. It only exhibits in Class A and Hyper mode, so we focused on the working current of the discrete headphone amplification circuit.

After numerous tests and auditions, we managed to eliminate the hissing problem on the returned N30LE by adjusting the bias setting of the discrete headphone amplifier circuit. For those who are unfamiliar with the discrete circuit of N30LE, please refer to our explanation in Post #195, in which I quote the most relevant paragraph below for your reference:




We have noticed that by re-biasing the circuit to a new parameter, the hissing problem is eliminated completely, and if we adjust the bias setting back to previous parameters, the hissing problem will reoccur, so we are pretty sure that this will solve the problem from our Engineering point of view. The bias setting will affect both Class A and Class AB playback, the change to audio performance is minimal and inaudible.

However, we need some time to verify our solution. As of today, we have received 3 hissing complaints from China (including Hong Kong) out of the 120+ units we delivered. We have only received one returned unit and that’s the base of our problem-solving exercises. We’ll pick three N30LE from our inventory, adjust the operation bias to our new reference parameters, go through the QA process again, and send out these DAPs to the dealers of the three users who reported the hissing problem. Assuming the new batch of DAP can pass the hissing test with the IEM/headphone/cable that they had trouble with previously, we’ll send out another batch of N30LE to our overseas dealers immediately, and they can replace the hissing N30LE of their client. We believe this arrangement will minimize the delay of our users from sending out their N30LE DAP to receiving an N30LE replacement.

Glad to hear there’s a potential fix in the works. It’s a little strange to me that you’re not using digitally-controlled variable resistors, that would have made deploying a fix as easy as releasing a firmware update. Particularly since manually-set variable resistors can drift over time, and the device is not user-serviceable. In the future I would suggest making this more remotely serviceable. You can even protect against thermal drift of bias by using a simple ADC to detect changes in the bias as things warm up, and having the firmware adjust the bias resistor settings dynamically during use. This would also protect against long-term drifts in the digital resistor from wiper movement.

Just my two cents..

 

[Allears79]

I would expect that having a recall would be detrimental to the customers that are currently experiencing the problems. No sense flooding Cayin with units that are working satisfactorily at this point. Lets get the owners that can't enjoy their DAPs right now, taken care of first. Maybe the better alternative would be to extend the warranty on this particular DAP to protect owners from future problems. Or make it a two tiered process: fix units with existing problems first, then allow owners of remaining serial numbers the opportunity to return for the determined adjustments.

I am sorry, but can’t agree with that. If they found a reference parameter that works better and fix reported issues, it should be applied to ALL units. We are not talking about a $50 device after all…

This is a condition that can impair the use of a premium device and nobody knows when or if it can happen. If they found a fix, everyone should receive it (via fw update or manually at the factory, I don’t care).

 

[Kobe4ever]

I’ve tested a few IEMs and cables and despite not having heard the Amber Peral I REALLY struggle to understand how anything can be possibly more contagious, energetic and lifelike as the Orpheus +Aroma Jewel combo with the N30LE. It is just insane

Combo Orphy + Jewel is insane not only with this Dap , but also with other sources. Two absolute masterpieces

 

[Kobe4ever]

Also big shout out and sincerest thanks to Andrew and his team at @MusicTeck for their always amazing support.

Andrew is always the best in every situation

 

[Allears79]

Andrew is always the best in every situation

Totally agree with that!

 

[RonaldS86]

I think even Batman himself will cry when he listen to this beautiful combo

 

[aaf evo]

I think even Batman himself will cry when he listen to this beautiful combo

I can only imagine how nice the Jewel + Orpheus sounds with this DAP.

Orpheus would pair SO well for Grand Maestro but I cannot stomach buying a cable that cost me more than the CIEM

 

[RonaldS86]

I can only imagine how nice the Jewel + Orpheus sounds with this DAP.

Orpheus would pair SO well for Grand Maestro but I cannot stomach buying a cable that cost me more than the CIEM

For me, the N30LE really elevate Jewel + OrphyS combo to another level. I didn't feel it with N8ii before so I'm a happy man now (not so much with my wallet )
I hope all of you with a faulty unit get the best possible solution from Cayin and receive a working product in the end