[tfenton02]

Thank you

Easy and worked perfectly

 

[timeslip]

The newest FW update is frikin good. Its like FW1.0 for SQ.
Dont know if it has something todo with the firmware per se, or because i was not going for OTA update, but of a clean firmware install.
It sounds now as fresh out of the factory.
Its amazing what the N30 can pull out of a music track.

On a factory reset and re-upgrade to 1.03 seems to have the problems I was experiencing too. The sound is what I remember in 1.2, and the mobile_radio process has remained at 1% so far. The unit also seems to be running at normal temp and does not feel like a hand warmer.

 

[FooFighter]

So only some brief impressions
Started with Meze Elite, then VC and DCA Stealth.
Overall not disappointed.
Is driving the Overears very good with a wide airy stage and a very good bass quality and impact.
Slightly tending to over emphasize lower mids to mid bass compared to my Ferrum-Holo stack which is also a bit more focused and not stretching to the sides that much but a bit deeper and organic with my Overears but still very good for a standalone DAP.
Running N30LE into Ferrum Oor is somehow the midlle ground of what I described with more focus onto the middle but still N30LE airy and full bodied sound signature.

What I could also enjoy in this context is the I2S connection into my Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE which I was enjoying out of my former N7 before.

And then came Amber Pearl IEM.
Wow - that's indeed the best combination of DAP and IEM I have heard so far.
It's natural and at the same time engaging, thumping textured bass where you wouldn't think about BA Bass if you didn't know.
Mids have a top notch timbre
Treble is forgiving and reduced compared to Mentor which is good for longterm listening without fatigue.
But I can imagine some complementary IEM (like Anni which I haven't yet) to be a good 2nd setup for variety.

You can enjoy really all sorts of genres from EDM to Hard Rock, Jazz, haven't tried classical music yet.

One last statement for today.
That DAP is a Swiss army knife.
I have experimented with Hyper on and off, tube timbres etc and there's really something for anybody imho.
Want to party?
Switch Hyper on and Solid State
Want to relax?
Hyper off is yet a big change and more laid back and then put on classic tube timbre and listen to some Norah Jones or whatever Jazz music with saxophone etc and you are feeling like you are sitting in a Jazz club in Kuba.

Really impressed after first hours

 

[FooFighter]

Nice detail
Cayin App can fetch song texts for local tracks on your SD Card and show live text positions.
That's a feature I knew from services like Musicmatch on my mobile phone but first time I see it on a DAP besides the integrated solutions of streaming services like Apple Music or Tidal

 

[Andykong]

Welp! Looks like I am unable to upgrade back to 1.3 now. It errors at about 51% from both OTA and also local (download from cayin webpage) update.

@Andykong,

Do you have any ideas or logs that I can send?

This is a common Android problem, the memory management of Android systems has always been their weak point as they are not a truly multi-tasking system.

If you run get stuck in the middle of an OTA update, you need to clear the cache of the system update process otherwise it will repeat the download error:

1. Disconnect your WiFi.
2. At the top right corner of the firmware update page, click the three dots, please select clean cache.
3. Reboot your N30LE and connect to WiFi again, you should be able to download the firmware again.

 

[Bax1020]

Sent my N30 to my distributor for hissing issues. Hope to get it back soon.

 

[bmichels]

So only some brief impressions
Started with Meze Elite, then VC and DCA Stealth.
Overall not disappointed.
Is driving the Overears very good with a wide airy stage and a very good bass quality and impact.
Slightly tending to over emphasize lower mids to mid bass compared to my Ferrum-Holo stack which is also a bit more focused and not stretching to the sides that much but a bit deeper and organic with my Overears but still very good for a standalone DAP.
Running N30LE into Ferrum Oor is somehow the midlle ground of what I described with more focus onto the middle but still N30LE airy and full bodied sound signature.

What I could also enjoy in this context is the I2S connection into my Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE which I was enjoying out of my former N7 before.

And then came Amber Pearl IEM.
Wow - that's indeed the best combination of DAP and IEM I have heard so far.
It's natural and at the same time engaging, thumping textured bass where you wouldn't think about BA Bass if you didn't know.
Mids have a top notch timbre
Treble is forgiving and reduced compared to Mentor which is good for longterm listening without fatigue.
But I can imagine some complementary IEM (like Anni which I haven't yet) to be a good 2nd setup for variety.

You can enjoy really all sorts of genres from EDM to Hard Rock, Jazz, haven't tried classical music yet.

One last statement for today.
That DAP is a Swiss army knife.
I have experimented with Hyper on and off, tube timbres etc and there's really something for anybody imho.
Want to party?
Switch Hyper on and Solid State
Want to relax?
Hyper off is yet a big change and more laid back and then put on classic tube timbre and listen to some Norah Jones or whatever Jazz music with saxophone etc and you are feeling like you are sitting in a Jazz club in Kuba.

Really impressed after first hours

impressive. have you been able to try cable rolling with the Amber Pearl ?

 

[FooFighter]

impressive. have you been able to try cable rolling with the Amber Pearl ?

Not yet but will try my only remaining FT cable and see if it sounds the same

 

[Andykong]

@Andykong I have downgraded to FW 1.1 yesterday to test the Mobil_Radio Bug.

As i stated before, FW 1.1 is a mess regarding sonic performance. The whole presentation sounded vailed and the lack of good transient response on N30 was immediately noticed when i switched back to my other DAP.

Today i charged the battery to 90% which resets the Battery Usage screen when you charge to 90% and unplug the USB cable.

As you can see in the picture below, Mobile_Radio is still there, but the drain is only half as much as before.

Something weird also happened because i got a power outage and WiFi was gone.
After WiFi came back, the device was constantly crashing when i had multiple apps open.

After the crashes, SQ was miraculously restored, transient response was very good.

Access Point is this one: https://e.huawei.com/en/products/optical-terminal/echolife-eg8145v5

Now to another topic:
After searching a little bit through the forums it was apparent that all Cayin DAPs are plagued with overheat. It runs like a common thread through the production line of Cayin: N8II, N7, N30 and even dongles. This has to make at least somebody at Cayin wonders!

As a rule of thumb, all DAPs on the market achieve the same playtime with half the battery size as N30, while staying cool and dont overheat during playback (SP3000).
Even DAPs with the same battery capacity as N30 achieve double playtime (DX320max)

This has nothing to do with the amplification, because DX320max is also Quad DAC and Class A. Maybe Dual AK4499EQ of N30 are more power hungry then Quad Rohm of DX320max, but also FW implementation play a big role here.

The heath issues and inefficiency of N30 are concerning because not knowing how the battery would be affected in the long run.

Would be nice if Cayin could improve on efficiency and keep the heat better under control.

You dont have to reach WM1ZM2 levels up to 40 hours of playback, but 12 hours minimum should be achievable with 12000mAh battery, because playtime of N30 is now 5 hours when device is charged to 80% and discharge to 20% (to preserve battery health) Vol 36, Class AB, Low Gain, P+, Classic Tube

I disagree, our DAP runs warm, or hot by your standard, but not overheating. This is a strong allegation that we cannot live with.

I have discussed with N7 users regarding the operation temperature of N7 DAP, and some of the discussions are relevant to the efficiency of the amplification circuit. Since I can't compare the circuit design of N30LE to the products you mentioned (they are our competitors), I really not in a position to explain further why we consume more power than the products you mentioned. I can only assure you that power supply design is the critical success factor of Cayin's sound engineering, we achieve the sound you like because our amplifier delivers a very high current capacity, and this design consumes more power relatively.

This has nothing to do with the amplification?

Simple question: can you improve the audio performance by feeding more power to the circuit? Compare P and P+ and tell me what you heard. When you switch between P and P=, you hear exactly the same circuit, we don't change the signal path or components, all we do is increase the voltage of the power supply to the headphone amplification circuit. This simple illustration suggests that at least with some circuit design, power consumption and sound quality are directly proportioned.

Not all 1000mw p.c. amplifiers are the same. N30LE is packed with dual Nutube and a fully discrete Class A headphone amplification circuit. Cayin will continue to improve the power management of N30LE, but the primary objective is to achieve better audio performance, not to achieve longer duration, lower operation temperature, or reduce the power consumption of our circuitry.

Last but not least, If I understand correctly, your N30LE discharged from 80% to 20% in 5 hours, at Volume 36, Class AB, Low Gain, P+ Classic Tube mode.

Now let's take a look at our battery duration table which can be found on the N30LE product page of the Cayin website. At P+, Class AB, Vacuum tube mode, the battery duration is roughly 8.4 hours at 4.4mm phone Out and 8.8 hours at 3.5mm phone out. So your battery duration figure is in line with the specifications we published when we announced the product.

 

[FooFighter]

Running N30LE with RN6 or Amber Pearl at low gain Hyper mode Solid State it's getting hand warm.
I know the N7 temperature topic as I had it before and also believe you can push the N30LE with its amplification tech to such temperatures but I can also say there are other examples looking at Shanling M8, not sure how the later models are performing where a heat sink in the metal housing was part of its cooling design.
Agreed Sp3k is really hardly getting warm in comparison but it's a different architecture for sure with its own pros but also cons.
Looking at my desktop amp like Ferrum Oor it's getting as warm if not warmer than N7/N30 if pushing their limits.
I find it an arts pushing the limits of SQ on such a limited DAP space and I admire the designers for their work

 

[mgsu]

Last but not least, If I understand correctly, your N30LE discharged from 80% to 20% in 5 hours, at Volume 36, Class AB, Low Gain, P+ Classic Tube mode.

Now imagine the battery health is down to 80% after one year. What you get is more or less 3 - 3.5 hour of playback time till you have to recharge again. This is inconvenient from a DAP with 12500mAh battery.

I can only assure you that power supply design is the critical success factor of Cayin's sound engineering, we achieve the sound you like because our amplifier delivers a very high current capacity, and this design consumes more power relatively.

I understand, but keep in mind that my DX300 (Quad DAC) + Amp14 (NuTube) surpasses the sound performance of N30 in P Mode + Classic Tube.
Only P+ and Hyper Mode is where Cayin shines and leaves the DX300 in the dust.

Your standard amplification in P Mode is not optimal and is surpassed by your competition.
Would be great if you can start improving there, before pushing high current through the circuit to achieve high fidelity for what Cayin is known for.
Maybe then P+ mode became redundant.

 

[linux4ever]

I disagree, our DAP runs warm, or hot by your standard, but not overheating. This is a strong allegation that we cannot live with.

I have discussed with N7 users regarding the operation temperature of N7 DAP, and some of the discussions are relevant to the efficiency of the amplification circuit. Since I can't compare the circuit design of N30LE to the products you mentioned (they are our competitors), I really not in a position to explain further why we consume more power than the products you mentioned. I can only assure you that power supply design is the critical success factor of Cayin's sound engineering, we achieve the sound you like because our amplifier delivers a very high current capacity, and this design consumes more power relatively.



Simple question: can you improve the audio performance by feeding more power to the circuit? Compare P and P+ and tell me what you heard. When you switch between P and P=, you hear exactly the same circuit, we don't change the signal path or components, all we do is increase the voltage of the power supply to the headphone amplification circuit. This simple illustration suggests that at least with some circuit design, power consumption and sound quality are directly proportioned.

Not all 1000mw p.c. amplifiers are the same. N30LE is packed with dual Nutube and a fully discrete Class A headphone amplification circuit. Cayin will continue to improve the power management of N30LE, but the primary objective is to achieve better audio performance, not to achieve longer duration, lower operation temperature, or reduce the power consumption of our circuitry.

Last but not least, If I understand correctly, your N30LE discharged from 80% to 20% in 5 hours, at Volume 36, Class AB, Low Gain, P+ Classic Tube mode.

Now let's take a look at our battery duration table which can be found on the N30LE product page of the Cayin website. At P+, Class AB, Vacuum tube mode, the battery duration is roughly 8.4 hours at 4.4mm phone Out and 8.8 hours at 3.5mm phone out. So your battery duration figure is in line with the specifications we published when we announced the product.

My experience with Cayin Daps and currently with N30LE agrees with almost all the things expressed here, except for "I disagree, our DAP runs warm, or hot by your standard, but not overheating."

My N30LE248 is a re-biased unit. Saying that N30LE on Firmware v1.1 was overheating would have been an understatement. When I say that it needed mittens to handle it was not exaggeration. It was very, very, very hot just after 3-45 minutes of continuous playing.

But since v1.2 & v1.3, it has not been overheating. That's something Cayin's engineers can look into to see what was the difference between 1.1 & 1.2. Nothing on my end changes. Same audio files, same iems, same cables. Tube classic + AB + P

Edit: Added the DAP configuartion

 

[Dax7]

Mine was on hotter side when I bought it , but since 1.2 …I have no issues at all with heat . Knock on wood. 100% on the hyper , usually in my pocket for 1-2 hours at a time

 

[mgsu]

Mine was on hotter side when I bought it , but since 1.2 …I have no issues at all with heat . Knock on wood. 100% on the hyper , usually in my pocket for 1-2 hours at a time

yeah, Hyper is not that bad in these regard, it gets hand warm, but P+ or Hyper with Tube Mode engaged is where it gets hot.
While FW 1.1 was a toaster, 1.2 and 1.3 are a clear improvement.

I dont know if the OTA update to 1.1 messed it up for me or if i have done a clean FW instal could have prevent all the mess.

 

[linux4ever]

yeah, Hyper is not that bad in these regard, it gets hand warm, but P+ or Hyper with Tube Mode engaged is where it gets hot.
While FW 1.1 was a toaster, 1.2 and 1.3 are a clear improvement.

I dont know if the OTA update to 1.1 messed it up for me or if i have done a clean FW instal could have prevent all the mess.

Mine came installed with v1.1 and was a re-biased unit. And I wasn't even using P+ or hyper. It was Tube classic + AB + P and sure got toasty in 30-45 minutes. It was playing on my desk, airy and open with no leather case. But since firmware v1.2, it is under reasonable limits regarding the heat.