Cayin i5 Lossless Android DAP with AKM4490 DAC supporting 32/384 PCM + 64/128 DSD
Oct 16, 2016 at 11:16 PM Post #1,591 of 3,742
Just updated my MOOV app to the newest version and are experiencing and playback issue on my local chart playlist.
Some songs won't have sound while it's still play, some won't even play. It's happens on streaming and download songs.
Anyone experiencing the same problem? My MOOV app version is 2.3.1
 
Oct 17, 2016 at 5:04 AM Post #1,593 of 3,742
Oct 17, 2016 at 8:52 AM Post #1,594 of 3,742
Axon 7 uses a mobile variant of the AK4490.

From Android Authority:



So it's like the ESS9018 vs ESS9018K2M?

Well, I used ESS9018 based desktop DAC at my home system, but I am always skeptical on the 9018K2M based products, the SQ are varied quite a look that I can hardly assume the competitive advantages of ESS9018 based DAC have been carried forward to the 9018K2m based product.
 
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http://en.cayin.cn/
Oct 17, 2016 at 9:00 AM Post #1,595 of 3,742
Just updated my MOOV app to the newest version and are experiencing and playback issue on my local chart playlist.
Some songs won't have sound while it's still play, some won't even play. It's happens on streaming and download songs.
Anyone experiencing the same problem? My MOOV app version is 2.3.1


I didn't know Moov is functional outside Hong Kong. :xf_eek:

We have a lot of Moov users in Hong Kong, their complain are similar to the Tidal streaming app: standard music can play, download and offline playback alright, HiFi quality (16/44.1 lossless) will suffer stuttering, but this is the first time we have receive complaint for unable to playback Moov music.

We are working on the Moov and Tidal optimization but probably won't make it by the next firmware (late October as previously scheduled), will keep the forum informed when I tested the beta version of streaming optimization firmware.
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/
Oct 17, 2016 at 9:01 AM Post #1,596 of 3,742
Nobody to anwer? This dap is enought powerfull for orthoplanar headphone ( oppo pm3 ) ? :) thanks !


I have used Oppo PM2 to demo i5 in previous occasion, I think PM3 should be OK, not the best out of the phone but reasonable and satisfactory IMHO.
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/
Oct 17, 2016 at 1:05 PM Post #1,597 of 3,742
I didn't know Moov is functional outside Hong Kong.
redface.gif


We have a lot of Moov users in Hong Kong, their complain are similar to the Tidal streaming app: standard music can play, download and offline playback alright, HiFi quality (16/44.1 lossless) will suffer stuttering, but this is the first time we have receive complaint for unable to playback Moov music.

We are working on the Moov and Tidal optimization but probably won't make it by the next firmware (late October as previously scheduled), will keep the forum informed when I tested the beta version of streaming optimization firmware.

 
Don't know about other countries but Moov does function in Macau.
 
Did more testing on the playback issue it only happens on Moov V2.3.1 and V2.3.0. The problem is no sound while the music is playing tried changing the music quality, online and offline mode but the same problem still happens on the same songs. Everything works fine on V2.2.0 but suffer from more stuttering on HiFi contents than the newest version 2.3.1
 
So for the Moov and Tidal optimization is it for a specific version or for all the versions
 
Oct 17, 2016 at 1:31 PM Post #1,598 of 3,742
Is there any better dac than ak 4490?

In my opinion - which counts for nothing - no, unless you go proprietary or another DAC method - the AK4490 is my favorite off-the-shelf DAC.
 
A few years back, the Sabre DAC was all the rage, and I was lusting all over it too not having heard one. Once I got it in my iBasso DX90 and started hearing Sabre implementations in a variety of products, I felt the Sabre house sound was sharp and treble offensive. Got rid of the DX90 and I now avoid the Sabre DACs like the plague preferring proprietary implementations like the MOJO or R2R ladders. Not all is bad with Sabre as I do like the X7 Sabre implementation and the Ifi iDAC sabre implementation so it can be done correctly. However, if you hear the Cayin iDAC-6 implementation of the 4490 and compare to the proper FiiO and IfI Sabre implementations, you will see why I say the AK4490 DAC is much superior in every way.
 
Even the AK380 4490 implementation is awesome at $3K, but is handicapped by its amp/dynamics. If the Cayin i5 sounds anything like the iDAC-6 implementation and has a reasonable amp, it should be stellar and at a great price. The only other question is Cayin's handling of the clocking in this DAP to maximize the 4490 sound stage and transparency. The Aune M2 does the clocking right and the 4490 implementation with Amp is right, however, the interface/design leaves a lot to be desired. Right now I am holding off on the Aune M2 purchase it check this one out hoping to have great UI and great SQ. If it sounds like I am lusting after the AK4490 now like I was the Sabre a few years back, I am - but now I have a better understanding of the technology and my signature preferences and have a better ear for SQ.
 
BTW, the Pioneer that everyone was comparing a few pages back has a very low end Sabre SQ in comparison to the Aune M2 4490 implementation which is head and tails above. The Pioneer UI is great, but the build quality and amp is just ok. The wobbly bar on the top begs for removal to be usable/pocketable and leaves screw holes in the top.
 
If you care about SQ, the Paw Gold is at the very top with the Sony WM1Z/A joining it this year in November and the Aune just below these two at a fraction of the price. I am hoping the Cayin i5 joins the Aune at the top with a superior UI and a great price. I personally would have trouble leaving the house with a $1K plus dap and want the i5 or the Aune for the road.
 
Oct 17, 2016 at 2:45 PM Post #1,599 of 3,742
I am not familiar with ZTE Axon 7 mobile phone,do they use AK4490 in a budgeted phone? This is new to me as AK4490 is too power hungry for mobile application application, and I am not aware of any mobile phone will integrate this chipset into their audio solution.

We can go through the basic idea to the question logically. Assuming the DAC chipset remain the same, the different will be:
  • The digital processing before going into AK4490:
  • The analogue processing after AK4490 has decoded the audio bitstream
  • The Power management that support the complete digital and audio processing.

Once we go beyond this logical thinking, the details will become technical and I am not sure if this is necessarily information for general consumers. For example, just to name a few tasks to illustrate the involvements.

Before DAC chipset:
  • translate file into bitstream according to specific codec
  • DSP to enhance digital signal and reduce error
  • User controlled DSP features with adjustment/selection options (e.g., PMEQ, upsampling, digital filters, ...)
  • Clock sync and jitter reduction


After DAC chipset
  • Amplification circuit design
  • Choice of components/Op-amp
  • Voltage/Current conversion
  • Anti-interference
  • Volume Control
  • Gain Control
  • Mute Control


Power Management
  • Make sure each component receive the optimized power supply
  • Ground looping
  • Minimize components interference from power circuit
  •  

In my personal understanding, Power Management is actually the most critical part of the implementation, Analogue comes second, and the digital function before DAC chipset is the least important among the three, but this is subject to disagreement.

Theoretically if you want to compare devices which are capable of playing music from a chipset/component/technical design point of view, these are the issues you need to look at. Isn't this wonderful!
tongue.gif


OK, let come back to the real life in English.
biggrin.gif


First of all, mobile phone is not cheap, they are more expensive and sophisticated then our DAP in most cases. Unfortunately mobile phone will not put audio playback as a priority issue during their design and implementation, so they tends to go for an integrated solution in order to minimize the space and power required. For example, they probably need to condense the analogue circuit to one or two components only and they won't use high-power op-amp like we do in a dedicated DAP, result in significantly lower driving power, and reduction in audio quality from audiophile point of view. However whether these difference is audible will largely depends on the experience and preference of user, choice of headphone, and choice of music. So I always encourage customer to compare the DAP and mobile phone with the headphone they are using and the music they listened to regularly, if they don't hear any different and didn't plan to change their headphone, then they probably will be happy to stay with their mobile phone. The story probably will change dramatically when they use my headphone and my music to compare the DAP and the mobile phone, but that's not always a valid option to the customer.

Thanks for taking the time to explain, I will take the plunge and order the i5 to find out myself.
 
Axon 7 uses a mobile variant of the AK4490.

From Android Authority:


According to the article on the the AKM website http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4490EN the AK4490EN version appears to be a smaller version, requiring less power, but identical to the AK4490EQ in performance and specs 
 
Oct 17, 2016 at 4:28 PM Post #1,600 of 3,742
The only thing holding me back from ordering (aside from my usual inability to make a decision on anything!) the cayin atm is gapless.  Am I right in thinking that if I download another app for music playback that app will do gapless (as long as it says it does it) ?  Sorry for it to be a sticking point, but as a lot of the stuff I listen to are concept and live albums having a gap where there isn't meant to be one is often really annoying.
 
Thanks
 
Oct 18, 2016 at 5:59 AM Post #1,601 of 3,742
  The only thing holding me back from ordering (aside from my usual inability to make a decision on anything!) the cayin atm is gapless.  Am I right in thinking that if I download another app for music playback that app will do gapless (as long as it says it does it) ?  Sorry for it to be a sticking point, but as a lot of the stuff I listen to are concept and live albums having a gap where there isn't meant to be one is often really annoying.
 
Thanks


Gapless is still not gapless. However, the sound out of this baby will get you forget about gapless. When you hear a thump of the foot drum, you'll think that your head is right next drummers foot it really is unreal how accurate it is. To be honest I can't remember how it is with third party apps (tried PowerAmp, Onkyo, Neutron and Jet Audio) since I found stock player to be on par with all of them and with actually much better lay out and quick access to playlists and directories, so I just got rid of them. Saves the battery as well.
 
Oct 18, 2016 at 8:57 AM Post #1,602 of 3,742
i5 or AK70 ? 
confused_face(1).gif
 
 
Looking to purchase one of these but not able to demo either where I live and so would appreciate feedback from anybody who owns both or has heard them side by side for a while ??
 
Cheers
beerchug.gif
 
 
Oct 18, 2016 at 2:22 PM Post #1,604 of 3,742
  The only thing holding me back from ordering (aside from my usual inability to make a decision on anything!) the cayin atm is gapless.  

Thanks, so recognizable!
 
Not being able to play gapless is 'a thing' for me as well, it annoys me listening to live concerts and trance remixes which are being interrupted in between tracks.
But this is being addressed in one of the upcoming firmware updates I believe?   
 
Oct 18, 2016 at 2:28 PM Post #1,605 of 3,742
  Thanks, so recognizable!
 
Not being able to play gapless is 'a thing' for me as well, it annoys me listening to live concerts and trance remixes which are being interrupted in between tracks.
But this is being addressed in one of the upcoming firmware updates I believe?   

Let's hope so!  It's so frustrating to be getting interested in a number of daps, and gapless (along with battery life) is nearly always a deal breaker.  I seem to remember reading somewhere that in asian countrys (sorry for gross generalization there!) that gapless is just not a big a deal as most seem to prefer songs or compilations where it's not needed, and thus is a lower priority.  I still can't believe that the lowly ipods from yesteryear got it right right out of the box pretty much.
 

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