Cayin HA-6A Class A KT88/EL34 Tube Headphone Amplifier
Apr 9, 2021 at 7:26 AM Post #676 of 1,943
yes, of course...but....bleeding level of volume is not criteria of enough power to HP. Bass control, clear highs this is sign of good drive.. listen ha6a with any of these HP and they could sound like they are good powered then switch to another amp with more power and you will hear the difference.
I trying to say HA6A can drive any HP on the market, but it can't show full potential of "power hungry" phones....
Well the problem here is, how the amp delivers the power not how much it can deliver in total (e.g. a formula S has very low total power output but can drive an abyss 1266 to its potential)

This is a very complex topic and not easily answered with "more power is better", although there often is a correlation.

Sure the Ha-6a is not the be all end all here, but power output is not the issue
 
Apr 9, 2021 at 7:34 AM Post #677 of 1,943
Well the problem here is, how the amp delivers the power not how much it can deliver in total (e.g. a formula S has very low total power output but can drive an abyss 1266 to its potential)

This is a very complex topic and not easily answered with "more power is better", although there often is a correlation.

Sure the Ha-6a is not the be all end all here, but power output is not the issue
I appreciate so much if you can tell more about power delivering... this is what most of audiophiles don't know but it's really important information! may be you know some articles with details?
Thanks!!!
 
Apr 9, 2021 at 7:42 AM Post #678 of 1,943
I'm quite new to this hobby, but I think they are in KT88 mode, but bass seems loose in EL34 mode which I'm not sure if that's just EL34 signature or due to the lower power output of the EL34 mode.
EL34 signature is killer mid range..... KT88 is a great all round tube
 
Apr 9, 2021 at 7:46 AM Post #679 of 1,943
Well 1266, lcd4 and he6 can all be driven to ear bleeding levels with the Ha-6a if you feed it thr industry Standard of 2V via RCA or 4V via XLR.
Don't know about the rest
my audio friend always like to use this comparison..... both driving at the same speed, a 6000cc V8 leisurely burring @ 2000rpm or a 2000cc turbo 4 screaming @ 7000rpm
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 5:45 PM Post #682 of 1,943
It's time to order 6L6GC...
just found new tube from TAD.... tube has higher DC plate voltage - 800... is it suitable for HA6-A instead of older version listed below?

https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/6l6wgc-str-blackplate-ge-style-tad-premium-matched
or
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/6l6gcm-str-redbase-tad-premium-selected
You will be fine with either, the dc plate voltage is only a max rating on the datasheet.
The 6l6wgc blackplate is one of my favorite tube for this amp.
I have not tried the new red base version yet. If you get those I wish to know how they sound like :wink:
 
Apr 17, 2021 at 2:22 PM Post #683 of 1,943
Hello!
So that means RCA and SE is true for the amp? Very interesting how that conversion effects on quality... I was thinking amp is true balance and changed all cables to XLR output and now it's better to go back to SE....what a mess)

One thing is not clear for me. It says balance has more output power in every mode and any tube but what that means? Depends on DAC voltage on RCA or XLR? If I'm correct - when use RCA input power on every output is the same... correct?

Thanks
I'm no expert in this, but i'm "hoping" when it says balance has more output power, it's referring to the output side of things i.e. balanced output has more power vs. single ended (XLR out vs std headphone jack out)

The concept is correct, but is based on non-transformer coupled Solid state amplifier.

To describe the HA-6A circuit correctly, it is balanced input, single-ended amplification and balanced output. The HA-6A is a transformer coupled amplifier. With output transformer in the final output stage, it is fairly straight forward to "generate" a negative phase in the output signal, so both single-ended and balanced output are "original" output from the transformer, we don't take the single-end output and then convert it into balanced output like other non-transformer-coupled solid state amplifier.

On the other hand, HA-6A "converts" balanced input into single-ended before feeding the signal to 12Au7.

We opt for single-ended amplification because that's the best sounding design for tube based amplification in our opinion. For fully balanced tube amplification with the same choice of tube, we need to use set of four EL34/KT88 and set of four 12AU7, that will limited your tube rolling practise because matched quad set of high quality vacuum tube is not only expansive but also difficult to come by. On the other hand, the amplifier will be more powerful, sounds more accurate, but with less harmonic and intimacy. The question is, when you select a tube amplifier, do you want it to be more accurate? or do you want it to have richer harmonic?
 
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Apr 17, 2021 at 2:28 PM Post #684 of 1,943
The concept is correct, but is based on non-transformer coupled Solid state amplifier.

To describe the HA-6A circuit correctly, it is balanced input, single-ended amplification and balanced output. The HA-6A is a transformer coupled amplifier. With output transformer in the final output stage, it is fairly straight forward to "generate" a negative phase in the output signal, so both single-ended and balanced output are "original" output from the transformer, we don't take the single-end output and then convert it into balanced output like other non-transformer-coupled solid state amplifier.

On the other hand, HA-6A "converts" balanced input into single-ended before feeding the signal to 12Au7.

We opt for single-ended amplification because that's the best sounding design for tube based amplification in our opinion. For fully balanced tube amplification with the same choice of tube, we need to use set of four EL34/KT88 and set of four 12AU7, that will limited your tube rolling practise because matched quad set of high quality vacuum tube is not only expansive but also difficult to come by. On the other hand, the amplifier will be more powerful, sounds more accurate, but with less harmonic and intimacy. The question is, when you select a tube amplifier, do you wan it to be more accurate? or do you want it to have richer harmonic?
My choice is definitely for richer harmonic =)
Thanks for detailed answer
 
Apr 17, 2021 at 2:31 PM Post #685 of 1,943
We opt for single-ended amplification because that's the best sounding design for tube based amplification in our opinion
Many other high end Tube amplifier manufacturers share that opinion
 
Apr 17, 2021 at 2:35 PM Post #686 of 1,943
I'm quite new to this hobby, but I think they are in KT88 mode, but bass seems loose in EL34 mode which I'm not sure if that's just EL34 signature or due to the lower power output of the EL34 mode.
EL34 signature is killer mid range..... KT88 is a great all round tube
I assume when you refer to KT88 mode and EL34 modes, you have actually swapped the output tubes and then change the red button on the back panel. It would be a totally different story if you only flip the red button but didn't change the tubes.

KT88 output is slightly higher then EL34, but only slightly, it is not significantly enough to cause the different you heard, so what you heard are mainly different sound signature of sound signature of the KT88 and EL34.
 
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Apr 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM Post #687 of 1,943
Oh it's easy to answer....1266, lcd-4, Myst Ortophones (18 Ohm, 80 dB - ha6a is definitely not enough), he6, Snorry NM1...the funny thing is these are TOP end HP....
yes, of course...but....bleeding level of volume is not criteria of enough power to HP. Bass control, clear highs this is sign of good drive.. listen ha6a with any of these HP and they could sound like they are good powered then switch to another amp with more power and you will hear the difference.
I trying to say HA6A can drive any HP on the market, but it can't show full potential of "power hungry" phones....

Maybe the answer is not simple as that.

Have you heard these power hungry phones in FULL POTENTIAL? Can you share with us your reference of full potential of 1266, lcd-4, Myst Ortophones, he6, Snorry NM1? So that we can find out how far is HA6A from full potential of these headphones? Or will there be such a headphone amplifier that can drive all these headphones to full potential at $2500 budget? or at $5000 budget? And will it drive relative sensitive headphones such as Focal Utopia and Stella, Audio Technica ATH-L5000, and Ultrasone Jubilee Edition 25 satisfactory?

By the way, I thought you said HA-6A can drive the Myst Ortophones to very impressive level?

Hi, guys!
Just quick update... tried those "heavy" headphones Myst Ortophones on my HA-6A and it performed very impressive. I think abyss1266, he6, lcd4 is not problem for amp...
2 NOS 12au7 Sylvania's arrived and be tested on weekend...

Just wondering...is it possible to connect 2 pair of HP (xlr+se) and just switch between during amp work?

My friend, I am being sarcastic, because I think you have taken the wrong turn here. In my humble opinion, you won't find a headphone amplifier that can drive all the TOTL headphones to full potential. Maybe you can find an amplifier to deliver enough power to drive these headphone to what you called full potential electrically, but what about sound signature? Can one amplifier offer perfect synergy to all TOTL headphones? In my experience, a headphone amplifier with satisfactory handling power and perfect sound signature synergy will outperform another headphone amplifier with "full potential" handling power but lack of synergy. Base on this observation, if your aim is to find one amplifier that can "do it all", then you should spend more attention to sound signature customisation. In fact, HA-6A is one of the best amplifier in this department. The only headphone amplifier that I have heard in person that outperform HA-6A in sound signature customisation is Cavalli's Liquid Glass.

I don't consider HA-6A as an end-game tube headphone amplifier. At this price and design, the HA-6A is hardly an cost-no-objective implementation, and we have obviously compromised absolute performance for versatility. It's a fun and high quality headphone amplifier instead of an end-game.
 
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Apr 17, 2021 at 3:24 PM Post #689 of 1,943
I don't consider HA-6A as an end-game tube headphone amplifier. At this price and design, the HA-6A is hardly an cost-no-objective implementation, and we have obviously compromised absolute performance for versatility. It's a fun and high quality headphone amplifier instead of an end-game.
Totally agree here.
It's very versatile indeed. For the American and Chinese price it offers killer Performance!
Not so much in most european countries where it costs 50% more for no reason.

In the 2.5k range I can totally recommend it though.
 
Apr 18, 2021 at 2:04 AM Post #690 of 1,943
I don't consider HA-6A as an end-game tube headphone amplifier. At this price and design, the HA-6A is hardly an cost-no-objective implementation, and we have obviously compromised absolute performance for versatility. It's a fun and high quality headphone amplifier instead of an end-game.

$2,500 is plenty end game enough for me. Don’t own an HA-6A, but thinking about it in a year or so.

In my experience good tube amps are magic with high impedance dynamic driver headphones. At least with the amps I’ve listened to.

My working theory is the magic starts falling off as the impedance and efficiency of the headphones drop, A high end tube amp can extend the range but it still does best with high impedance and high efficiency.
That’s not even touching on the synergy that can happen with well matched gear.
 
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